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Re: Deal with it...
that was very good, but I do not see a Bible used in it; You use to formulate your point. So you Know all there is to know about the Godhead? you know all? other than what the bible gives us. Please tell me you know all about God; you know everything when the Bible tells us we have limited understanding and that the Holy Spirit main working from John 14, and 16 is to teach and lead US in to all truth about what Jesus said and did. tell me you know more than what the Bible says you can know? and I need to give up? I have given up, in thinking I could ever possibly KNOW ALL about the GodHead as the word tells me I could not know all.
that was very good, but I do not see a Bible used in it; You use to formulate your point. So you Know all there is to know about the Godhead? you know all? other than what the bible gives us. Please tell me you know all about God; you know everything when the Bible tells us we have limited understanding and that the Holy Spirit main working from John 14, and 16 is to teach and lead US in to all truth about what Jesus said and did. tell me you know more than what the Bible says you can know? and I need to give up? I have given up, in thinking I could ever possibly KNOW ALL about the GodHead as the word tells me I could not know all.
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Already contained in The Trinity.
The only part that you got right is Three Persons; One God.
You are making some real progress here by finally acknowledging that The Son is God.
And....of course, you conveniently forget to show the preceding verse in which people worship Jesus as God, Himself.
You keep owning yourself.
How does it feel...?
The only part that you got right is Three Persons; One God.
You are making some real progress here by finally acknowledging that The Son is God.
And....of course, you conveniently forget to show the preceding verse in which people worship Jesus as God, Himself.
You keep owning yourself.
How does it feel...?
Irrelevant.
As you know, those uses are unrelated to the Trinity, causing no question
as to which person is referred to in the Trinity.
Again, irrelevant.
Its relevancy doesn't "reside in the Greek," but "resides" in its statement
of the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit, as shown in
Ac 16:7, Ro 8:9; Gal 4:6; Php 1:19; 1Pe 1:1.
Likewise, the use of kurios does not "reside in the Greek" of 2Co 3:17, 18, but
"resides" in its use hundreds of times in the NT to mean the Lord Jesus Christ.
And this is still on the table:
As you know, those uses are unrelated to the Trinity, causing no question
as to which person is referred to in the Trinity.
Again, irrelevant.
Its relevancy doesn't "reside in the Greek," but "resides" in its statement
of the co-equal relationship of the Son and the Holy Spirit, as shown in
Ac 16:7, Ro 8:9; Gal 4:6; Php 1:19; 1Pe 1:1.
Likewise, the use of kurios does not "reside in the Greek" of 2Co 3:17, 18, but
"resides" in its use hundreds of times in the NT to mean the Lord Jesus Christ.
And this is still on the table:
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Re: Deal with it...
the sad thing is you think this is about me and you. It is not
you see even if you were right which you don't know I am still saved therefore nothing is to bad for me and Given up? lol on what? I am not trying to prove your wrong nor win a debate. Just a simple application to the Word od God in Context to the GodHead which you do not fully understand.
the sad thing is you think this is about me and you. It is not
you see even if you were right which you don't know I am still saved therefore nothing is to bad for me and Given up? lol on what? I am not trying to prove your wrong nor win a debate. Just a simple application to the Word od God in Context to the GodHead which you do not fully understand.The term 'Lord' can refer to any Person of The Trinity.
On the contrary, the original languages are entirely relevant.
Proper study, on your part, would eliminate much of your apparent confusion regarding The Trinity.
'Co-equal', in any lexicon, does not mean that they are each other.
Again, the term 'Lord' can, and does refer to each Person of The Trinity.
You are stuck on thinking its only for the Son.
The OT, to which 2 Cor 3 references, uses the term Yahweh.
On the contrary, the original languages are entirely relevant.
Proper study, on your part, would eliminate much of your apparent confusion regarding The Trinity.
'Co-equal', in any lexicon, does not mean that they are each other.
Again, the term 'Lord' can, and does refer to each Person of The Trinity.
You are stuck on thinking its only for the Son.
The OT, to which 2 Cor 3 references, uses the term Yahweh.
Re: Deal with it...
Its about studying scripture to see how the Creator has chosen to reveal Himself.
This has always been a life-long endeavor.
You have given up studying...and we can feel your sense of hopelessness.
I pity you...
the sad thing is you think this is about me and you. It is not you see even if you were right which you don't know I am still saved therefore nothing is to bad for me and Given up? lol on what? I am not trying to prove your wrong nor win a debate. Just a simple application to the Word od God in Context to the GodHead which you do not fully understand.
you see even if you were right which you don't know I am still saved therefore nothing is to bad for me and Given up? lol on what? I am not trying to prove your wrong nor win a debate. Just a simple application to the Word od God in Context to the GodHead which you do not fully understand.
This has always been a life-long endeavor.
You have given up studying...and we can feel your sense of hopelessness.
I pity you...
Irrelevant, again (3).
"Can" is not relevant, only "does" is relevant.
And kurios does, hundreds of times, refer to Christ in the NT.
Agreed.
Irrelevant, again (4), on two counts:
1) the use of "Lord" in 2Co 3:17, 18 is the only verse in question here; and
2) where is the word "Lord" used to refer to the person of the Holy Spirit?
NB: Gaming is the intellectually dishonest last refuge of a failed argument.
You haven't shown that 2Co 3 necessarily refers to Ex 34.
Non-responsive.
"Can" is not relevant, only "does" is relevant.
And kurios does, hundreds of times, refer to Christ in the NT.
Agreed.
Irrelevant, again (4), on two counts:
1) the use of "Lord" in 2Co 3:17, 18 is the only verse in question here; and
2) where is the word "Lord" used to refer to the person of the Holy Spirit?
NB: Gaming is the intellectually dishonest last refuge of a failed argument.
You haven't shown that 2Co 3 necessarily refers to Ex 34.
Non-responsive.
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A simple example...
"The Lord said to my Lord, Sit off My right until I should put Your hostile ones as a footstool for Your feet?" (Mat 22.44)
Now...according to YOUR reasoning, this verse should read....'The Jesus said to my Jesus....'
See how silly this makes your position look...?
Another simple example...
But when they came up out of the water, Spirit Lord caught away Philip. And the eunuch did not see him anymore; for he went his way rejoicing. (Acts 8.39)
So...
Look at how your assertions have been systematically dismantled:
1) I proved that Jesus Christ is directly referred to as Theos....counter to your assertion to the contrary.
2) I proved that The Father is referred to as 'Lord' in the NT, outside of the verse in question......counter to your assertion to the contrary.
3) I proved that The Spirit is referred to as 'Lord' in the NT, outside of the verse in question......counter to your assertion to the contrary.
Lets start at ground-level...
Do you first agree that 2 Cor 3 discusses Moses and the veil...?
Yes...or no...?
Re: Deal with it...
lol Bowman Please don't don't pity me your not a prophet , nor do you discern correctly the sense of hopelessness you say "we feel" lol . Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Studying the word is something I do everyday and I actually learn too. All Glory to God. you have a good ok
lol Bowman Please don't don't pity me your not a prophet , nor do you discern correctly the sense of hopelessness you say "we feel" lol . Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Studying the word is something I do everyday and I actually learn too. All Glory to God. you have a good ok
Thanks for you response to my questions, but. . .
not really. . .since you used an OT verse, its meaning is not in question,
for it must mean what it means in the OT:
"The LORD[YHWH, "he (who) is"] said to my Lord [Adonai, "Lord, sir master"]. . .(Ps 110:1)
So in the NT, the verse reads "YHWH said to the Lord (Jesus Christ). . ."
Present a NT verse (they are the ones in question) where the context shows that
kurios means "God the Father."
I'm thinkin' you're mistaken about the position of which you speak.
"the Spirit of the Lord (kurios) suddenly took Philip away," parallels
"Spirit of Jesus/Christ" (Ac 16:7; Ro 8:9, Gal 4:6, Php 1:19, 1Pe 1:11).
Almost. . ."so close and yet so far."
1) Theos is not used in your proof verse Mt 22:44, nor in Ac 2:34.
Rather, "kurios" is used in Mt 22:44; Ac 2:34 to translate an OT verse (Ps 110:1)
where the meaning of kurios is not in question, as it is here in the NT verses.
2) Yes, but you have given an OT verse (Ps 110:1) where the meaning of it is without question, and does not show the meaning of the verses which are in question here
in the NT.
3) Your translation of Ac 8:39 is different from the KJV, NAS, NIV, etc.
and confuses its meaning.
Do you use the ESV, which I find has errors in translation?
The Father and the Holy Spirit are not referred to as Lord (kurios) by the NT writers.
Actually. . .you really haven't proven any of the above.
I don't do "yes or no". . .have you stopped beating your friend, yes or no?
I agree that the veil which kept the Jews from seeing the fading glory on Moses' face
is still with them, keeping them from seeing the inadequacy of the old covenant, and
which veil is removed only in Christ, that only those in the new covenant in Christ
have the power to see how the new covenant has surpassed and replaced the old covenant,
because of its greater glory.
not really. . .since you used an OT verse, its meaning is not in question,
for it must mean what it means in the OT:
"The LORD[YHWH, "he (who) is"] said to my Lord [Adonai, "Lord, sir master"]. . .(Ps 110:1)
So in the NT, the verse reads "YHWH said to the Lord (Jesus Christ). . ."
Present a NT verse (they are the ones in question) where the context shows that
kurios means "God the Father."
I'm thinkin' you're mistaken about the position of which you speak.
"the Spirit of the Lord (kurios) suddenly took Philip away," parallels
"Spirit of Jesus/Christ" (Ac 16:7; Ro 8:9, Gal 4:6, Php 1:19, 1Pe 1:11).
Almost. . ."so close and yet so far."
1) Theos is not used in your proof verse Mt 22:44, nor in Ac 2:34.
Rather, "kurios" is used in Mt 22:44; Ac 2:34 to translate an OT verse (Ps 110:1)
where the meaning of kurios is not in question, as it is here in the NT verses.
2) Yes, but you have given an OT verse (Ps 110:1) where the meaning of it is without question, and does not show the meaning of the verses which are in question here
in the NT.
3) Your translation of Ac 8:39 is different from the KJV, NAS, NIV, etc.
and confuses its meaning.
Do you use the ESV, which I find has errors in translation?
The Father and the Holy Spirit are not referred to as Lord (kurios) by the NT writers.
Actually. . .you really haven't proven any of the above.
I don't do "yes or no". . .have you stopped beating your friend, yes or no?
I agree that the veil which kept the Jews from seeing the fading glory on Moses' face
is still with them, keeping them from seeing the inadequacy of the old covenant, and
which veil is removed only in Christ, that only those in the new covenant in Christ
have the power to see how the new covenant has surpassed and replaced the old covenant,
because of its greater glory.
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"The Lord is the Spirit," (2Co 3:18) would refer back to 3:6, "the Spirit gives life."
"But whenever anyone turns to the Lord (Jesus Christ), the veil is taken away." (3:16)
"because only in Christ is it (the veil) taken away (3:15).
It is only by turning to the Lord (Jesus Christ) that the condemnation and the sentence
of death pronounced by the law of the old covenant are annulled and replaced by the
free life-giving grace of the new covenant.
"The Lord" (kurios) in 2Co 3:17,18 is the Lord Jesus Christ (3:15, 16) of whom kurios
is used hundreds of times in the NT.
"The Lord is the Spirit" (2Co 3:18), like
". . .having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word. . .the Spirit of Jesus would
not allow them to" (Ac 16:6-7), where in both they appear to be the same,
states the co-equal relationship of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Keeping in mind that the Holy Spirit proceeds from (ek-poreuetai , "to go forth,
to go from or out of") both the Father (Jn 15:26) and the Son (Gal 4:6), and
is the one Spirit of both.
"But whenever anyone turns to the Lord (Jesus Christ), the veil is taken away." (3:16)
"because only in Christ is it (the veil) taken away (3:15).
It is only by turning to the Lord (Jesus Christ) that the condemnation and the sentence
of death pronounced by the law of the old covenant are annulled and replaced by the
free life-giving grace of the new covenant.
"The Lord" (kurios) in 2Co 3:17,18 is the Lord Jesus Christ (3:15, 16) of whom kurios
is used hundreds of times in the NT.
"The Lord is the Spirit" (2Co 3:18), like
". . .having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word. . .the Spirit of Jesus would
not allow them to" (Ac 16:6-7), where in both they appear to be the same,
states the co-equal relationship of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Keeping in mind that the Holy Spirit proceeds from (ek-poreuetai , "to go forth,
to go from or out of") both the Father (Jn 15:26) and the Son (Gal 4:6), and
is the one Spirit of both.
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So...
Now OT counterparts are 'relevant'...?!
What happened to your repeated assertion that they were 'irrelevant'...?
If my example represents The Father in the OT, as you acknowledge it indeed does...then it follows that it represents The Father in the NT.
Besides, your 2 Cor 3 example also has an OT counter part involving Yahweh.
Thus, to keep you from committing hypocrisy, yet again, we would have to toss your example out from discussion.
You really haven't given a lot of thought to all the dead-ends in your logic...
No mention of Jesus in the context of my example.
That Jesus is Theos was already proven in my Titus example on the merits of the established rules of Greek grammar completely independent of your denial of it.
Just learn to accept this fact.