A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?
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This is something similar to what I am communicating here. One difference would be that I'd say that the apostles ordained men into more offices than overseers and elders. Yet I would agree that basically any man and woman, may, situation given, work through their giftings respectively as "ministers" of God, based on the principle of the priesthood of all believers. Yet this does not change the fact that they have not all been ordained by way of laying on of hands, being officially set apart for certain tasks. Only some of the men have been set apart by those means.
In a nutshell; pastors are in the government category, and teachers are in
the rabbi category.
Although most pastors are proficient enough with theology, their job is
primarily management. They could, and in my opinion they should, leave all
the teaching, including Sunday sermons, to the people in their church who
have a genuine gift for it.
============================================
the rabbi category.
Although most pastors are proficient enough with theology, their job is
primarily management. They could, and in my opinion they should, leave all
the teaching, including Sunday sermons, to the people in their church who
have a genuine gift for it.
============================================
Thank you sir tribesman, that was encouraging, about the true meaning given by CHRIST to Apostle Paul for our 'Spiritual knowledge' and for our 'built up' about the New Testament written 'Tradition'.
Please keep up the 'good fight' for the sake GOD's lambs and sheep, men and woman who are submissive and obedience to their written every Word(CHRIST) of GOD in the New Covenant, in order to expose and 'get rid the Yeast of the Pharisees', even to witnesses of false testimony.
These women who debate and teach and want to take office of man senselessly are only accumulating trouble for themselves on judgement day. They actually have a problem with GOD's written New Covenant for made 'equal men and women', as sons and daughters to become submissive and obedient to HIS given New Covenant commandments and instructions and ignorantly not us.
i forgive them as merely babes in CHRIST who enjoy in the fruits of the carnal/flesh, it's 'passions' and 'desires' deluded ignorance in vain testify falsely, all due to Grace and Truth, that i have been forgiven of multitude of sins in my past by the Living GOD the FATHER of LORD JESUS CHRIST, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT.
Remember, Miriam who oppose Moses and at time she was not able perceive GOD's choice and will through Moses for HIS people. Even she was not able to listen and understand chosen Moses's given authority to bring to order GOD's people. Even though GOD's 'male servant' made mistakes due to overwhelming burdens of the people, others have no authority to oppose them, including women.
Miriam was outraged with Moses saying that, 'GOD did not only speak to him alone, but also did through her', and yes HE may have indeed, and HE may have not. This is because at times one may ignorantly respond in their 'selfish feelings and desires' of the flesh (and moreover it is written in the New Covenant that, 'women are a weaker vessel than men and they may also easily beguiled by satan that men need to love them but not in support those who want to violate GOD's Covenant, like jezebel).
According to GOD's Covenant Moses was HIS 'elect' and Miriam was HIS servant in duty to partly assist Moses. She herself know this as well as all women in Israel but she opposed GOD's Covenant chosen 'elect' and she was punished immediately by GOD and HE condemn her 'behavior' that should have been deal with by her father, in the presence of Moses.
Moses pleaded to GOD for her in forgiveness and GOD shortened the time of her punishment. Moses as a man and an 'elect' of GOD did commit mistakes and between GOD, but those who came against HIS Covenant and HIS 'elect', HE punished them, men and women alike immediately and severely, even to the consuming of their families.
Women and men can learn from these lessons from the past/Old, in order to be wise with the New Covenant and wisely talk and behave toward every GOD's 'elect' and they are 'men', also in their mistakes and between GOD. These people today who oppose them and are not 'chastised' immediately, is due to CHRIST interceding for them, so that they will listen to HIS 'elect' in correction according to the New Covenant 'order' and 'repent' to GOD.
Anyone who ignore their interior warning light or lights continuously 'blinking' and not turn back to the garage for checks and repairs, but rather continue ahead and ignore them, will sooner or later lose out of control and fall into a ditch.
Please keep up the 'good fight' for the sake GOD's lambs and sheep, men and woman who are submissive and obedience to their written every Word(CHRIST) of GOD in the New Covenant, in order to expose and 'get rid the Yeast of the Pharisees', even to witnesses of false testimony.
These women who debate and teach and want to take office of man senselessly are only accumulating trouble for themselves on judgement day. They actually have a problem with GOD's written New Covenant for made 'equal men and women', as sons and daughters to become submissive and obedient to HIS given New Covenant commandments and instructions and ignorantly not us.
i forgive them as merely babes in CHRIST who enjoy in the fruits of the carnal/flesh, it's 'passions' and 'desires' deluded ignorance in vain testify falsely, all due to Grace and Truth, that i have been forgiven of multitude of sins in my past by the Living GOD the FATHER of LORD JESUS CHRIST, by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT.
Remember, Miriam who oppose Moses and at time she was not able perceive GOD's choice and will through Moses for HIS people. Even she was not able to listen and understand chosen Moses's given authority to bring to order GOD's people. Even though GOD's 'male servant' made mistakes due to overwhelming burdens of the people, others have no authority to oppose them, including women.
Miriam was outraged with Moses saying that, 'GOD did not only speak to him alone, but also did through her', and yes HE may have indeed, and HE may have not. This is because at times one may ignorantly respond in their 'selfish feelings and desires' of the flesh (and moreover it is written in the New Covenant that, 'women are a weaker vessel than men and they may also easily beguiled by satan that men need to love them but not in support those who want to violate GOD's Covenant, like jezebel).
According to GOD's Covenant Moses was HIS 'elect' and Miriam was HIS servant in duty to partly assist Moses. She herself know this as well as all women in Israel but she opposed GOD's Covenant chosen 'elect' and she was punished immediately by GOD and HE condemn her 'behavior' that should have been deal with by her father, in the presence of Moses.
Moses pleaded to GOD for her in forgiveness and GOD shortened the time of her punishment. Moses as a man and an 'elect' of GOD did commit mistakes and between GOD, but those who came against HIS Covenant and HIS 'elect', HE punished them, men and women alike immediately and severely, even to the consuming of their families.
Women and men can learn from these lessons from the past/Old, in order to be wise with the New Covenant and wisely talk and behave toward every GOD's 'elect' and they are 'men', also in their mistakes and between GOD. These people today who oppose them and are not 'chastised' immediately, is due to CHRIST interceding for them, so that they will listen to HIS 'elect' in correction according to the New Covenant 'order' and 'repent' to GOD.
Anyone who ignore their interior warning light or lights continuously 'blinking' and not turn back to the garage for checks and repairs, but rather continue ahead and ignore them, will sooner or later lose out of control and fall into a ditch.
All Honor, All Praise, All Glory and All Good be to our GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST forever and ever, Amen.
Yes i agree, as it is written and according to the New Covenant of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT.
Apostle Paul and the eleven disciples are personally chosen instrument of CHRIST, where Sir Paul before leaving for home, prepared young Timothy to bring HOLY SPIRIT's New Covenant order on the men and women in the church. He also cautioned young Timothy about the ignorant and the arrogant men and women there and he must not please them.
And we are witnessing the same ignorance and arrogance of men and women here and everywhere in the churches even today. Apostle Paul's instructions to Timothy is about first to choose an 'Overseer' over the church and he must be a 'man' and a 'man with qualification', with no reproach.
Second Apostle Paul instructed him to choose 'Deacons' in service to the church and he must be 'man' and a 'man with qualification' with no reproach.
Their 'role' in the church are to serve CHRIST's lambs and sheep, including men and women.
These men and women in the church posses 'gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT', in order to serve one another under the knowledge and faith of 'AGAPE'.
As it is written, Women are 'not to teach' nor 'practice authority over man nor pastor them.
But some women posses the 'best gift' of the HOLY SPIRIT, that is 'Prophesying' and they are allowed to 'pray' in the church, both is done with a 'covering' on their head.
i believe they are allowed to 'preach' the Gospel to the 'lost' out there. But in the church they are to remain silent and listen and pay attention only. Unless and until they as men and women are allowed to speak during the time of prophesying and praying. And each may take turns. And these are the higher position where Christian men and women desire to serve the most.
And there are also other lower positions of services in the church for men and women. And these are the lower positions where Christian men and women least desire to serve.
Yes i agree, as it is written and according to the New Covenant of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT.
Apostle Paul and the eleven disciples are personally chosen instrument of CHRIST, where Sir Paul before leaving for home, prepared young Timothy to bring HOLY SPIRIT's New Covenant order on the men and women in the church. He also cautioned young Timothy about the ignorant and the arrogant men and women there and he must not please them.
And we are witnessing the same ignorance and arrogance of men and women here and everywhere in the churches even today. Apostle Paul's instructions to Timothy is about first to choose an 'Overseer' over the church and he must be a 'man' and a 'man with qualification', with no reproach.
Second Apostle Paul instructed him to choose 'Deacons' in service to the church and he must be 'man' and a 'man with qualification' with no reproach.
Their 'role' in the church are to serve CHRIST's lambs and sheep, including men and women.
These men and women in the church posses 'gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT', in order to serve one another under the knowledge and faith of 'AGAPE'.
As it is written, Women are 'not to teach' nor 'practice authority over man nor pastor them.
But some women posses the 'best gift' of the HOLY SPIRIT, that is 'Prophesying' and they are allowed to 'pray' in the church, both is done with a 'covering' on their head.
i believe they are allowed to 'preach' the Gospel to the 'lost' out there. But in the church they are to remain silent and listen and pay attention only. Unless and until they as men and women are allowed to speak during the time of prophesying and praying. And each may take turns. And these are the higher position where Christian men and women desire to serve the most.
And there are also other lower positions of services in the church for men and women. And these are the lower positions where Christian men and women least desire to serve.
Like I said before, those of you who would discriminate against women are confused, very confused.
God is not the author of confusion.
You all can't even agree on what a woman can and can't do. You all are all over the place.
You say a woman can't teach. Post #643 just before yours says a woman can teach but not be a pastor.
If you are going to say some women are going to have trouble on judgement day, it might be a good idea to come to some sort of consensus on what exactly is the problem here.
You know, so you can tell these women.
Me, I don't have that problem.
A woman can do anything a man can do.
Nobody is this thread has presented a credible argument to the contrary.
God is not the author of confusion.
You all can't even agree on what a woman can and can't do. You all are all over the place.
You say a woman can't teach. Post #643 just before yours says a woman can teach but not be a pastor.
If you are going to say some women are going to have trouble on judgement day, it might be a good idea to come to some sort of consensus on what exactly is the problem here.
You know, so you can tell these women.
Me, I don't have that problem.
A woman can do anything a man can do.
Nobody is this thread has presented a credible argument to the contrary.
I agree with the influence part.... but that has nothing to do with women ministers in particular.
Sensitive...... naw..... enough has already been written on the topic to prove validation for women ministers. The readers have what they need.
Sensitive...... naw..... enough has already been written on the topic to prove validation for women ministers. The readers have what they need.
This thread is simply illuminating the depth of apostasy in the modern church. Teach the bible to say what you want it to say not what it really says. Certainly not limited to women in the pastorate but they would not be there if it were not so.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Another equal 'best gift' than 'prophesying' is 'speaking in tongues' but with also 'interpretation' and two or three at a time, and some men and woman posses them.
'Preaching' brings 'lost people' into 'salvation.
'Prophesying' 'builts up' the whole church and bring 'outsiders' into repentance upon conviction.
And interceding in 'Tongues' and with 'interpretation' 'edifies' the whole church. Without interpretation one only 'edify' oneself and such may utter in silence interceding with GOD.
'Prophesying' is a gift given to some men and women and they bring to the church to be 'built up', some 'revelation' or 'knowledge' or 'prophecy' or 'teaching'.
One can also bring as they come together, 'a hymn', 'a lesson', 'a revelation', 'a tongue' or 'an interpretation. Let all things be done for 'building up' one another as a church, in 'orderly' manner.
1 Corinthians chapter 12 to chapter 14, truthfully justifies the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT in the church and the 'orderly' way and manner one may use them in service for one another in 'building up' one another.
'Preaching' brings 'lost people' into 'salvation.
'Prophesying' 'builts up' the whole church and bring 'outsiders' into repentance upon conviction.
And interceding in 'Tongues' and with 'interpretation' 'edifies' the whole church. Without interpretation one only 'edify' oneself and such may utter in silence interceding with GOD.
'Prophesying' is a gift given to some men and women and they bring to the church to be 'built up', some 'revelation' or 'knowledge' or 'prophecy' or 'teaching'.
One can also bring as they come together, 'a hymn', 'a lesson', 'a revelation', 'a tongue' or 'an interpretation. Let all things be done for 'building up' one another as a church, in 'orderly' manner.
1 Corinthians chapter 12 to chapter 14, truthfully justifies the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT in the church and the 'orderly' way and manner one may use them in service for one another in 'building up' one another.
-
A few years ago a co-worker invited me to a home Bible study that he and
his wife were attending at the time. I asked him if the study was being led
by a competent Bible teacher. He said they had no teacher. They all taught
each other as the Holy Spirit led.
Well; I promptly declined his invitation because a Bible study without one of
Christ's teachers as per Eph 4:11-14 is not a Bible study; it's a bull session.
This thread for example, never gets to the bottom of anything because it's
a bull session consisting of unbelievers, worldly believers, and spiritual
believers. So it's no surprise this thread a crucible of strife and confusion.
=====================================
A few years ago a co-worker invited me to a home Bible study that he and
his wife were attending at the time. I asked him if the study was being led
by a competent Bible teacher. He said they had no teacher. They all taught
each other as the Holy Spirit led.
Well; I promptly declined his invitation because a Bible study without one of
Christ's teachers as per Eph 4:11-14 is not a Bible study; it's a bull session.
This thread for example, never gets to the bottom of anything because it's
a bull session consisting of unbelievers, worldly believers, and spiritual
believers. So it's no surprise this thread a crucible of strife and confusion.
=====================================
Let me get this straight, based upon what you have said.
A woman can prophesy, right?
And a prophesy can clarify a teaching, right?
But a woman, according to you, can't teach, right?
And a woman can't be a pastor, right?
And you say preaching brings the lost to salvation, right?
Can a woman preach?
Let's say a woman is lost in adultery.
Can another woman preach or teach or pastor to the woman lost in adultery?
But you do apparently think one woman can prophesy to the woman lost in adultery? As in, clarify a teaching?
A woman can prophesy, right?
And a prophesy can clarify a teaching, right?
But a woman, according to you, can't teach, right?
And a woman can't be a pastor, right?
And you say preaching brings the lost to salvation, right?
Can a woman preach?
Let's say a woman is lost in adultery.
Can another woman preach or teach or pastor to the woman lost in adultery?
But you do apparently think one woman can prophesy to the woman lost in adultery? As in, clarify a teaching?
-
That depends upon entirely upon the woman.
If a female pastor has truly undergone the birth about which Christ spoke at
John 3:3-8, she will not be lost to hell. However, there are rewards to
consider. (1Cor 3:11-15)
According to 2Tim 2:5, it is essential to play by the rules in order to win a
prize; which essentially says that all of a female pastor's work will be judged
as wood, hay, and stubble. She will be saved, yes; but her endeavors as a
pastor will be disqualified because female pastors are against the rules.
†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
Webster's defines "usurp" as: to take and keep (something, such as power) in
a forceful or violent way; and especially without the right to do so.
In other words: females who overstep the boundaries of primogeniture as
per 1Cor 11:3 and 1Tim 2:13, and who disobey 1Tim 2:11-12 by taking part
in the governing body of a church; are nothing less than head-strong. The
the conduct of head-strong females is that of pagan heathens.
†. 1Sam 15:22-23 . . Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and
sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than
sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of
witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Bottom Line: there is no legitimate, God-given way past the glass ceiling in
New Testament Christianity; and the sooner a born-again Christian woman
comes to terms with it the sooner she will be at peace with Christ.
†. John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.
And the sooner she will be at peace with God's Spirit.
†. Eph 4:30 . . Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto
the day of redemption.
†. Eph 5:8-11 . . For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in
the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all
goodness and righteousness and truth) proving what is acceptable unto the
Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but
rather reprove them.
But as I said before: a truly born-again female pastor is in zero danger of
the abyss though her conduct be no better than that of a pagan heathen.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
†. Rom 8:1-2 . .There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ
Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set them free
from the law of sin and death.
==========================================
That depends upon entirely upon the woman.
If a female pastor has truly undergone the birth about which Christ spoke at
John 3:3-8, she will not be lost to hell. However, there are rewards to
consider. (1Cor 3:11-15)
According to 2Tim 2:5, it is essential to play by the rules in order to win a
prize; which essentially says that all of a female pastor's work will be judged
as wood, hay, and stubble. She will be saved, yes; but her endeavors as a
pastor will be disqualified because female pastors are against the rules.
†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
Webster's defines "usurp" as: to take and keep (something, such as power) in
a forceful or violent way; and especially without the right to do so.
In other words: females who overstep the boundaries of primogeniture as
per 1Cor 11:3 and 1Tim 2:13, and who disobey 1Tim 2:11-12 by taking part
in the governing body of a church; are nothing less than head-strong. The
the conduct of head-strong females is that of pagan heathens.
†. 1Sam 15:22-23 . . Hath the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and
sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, to obey is better than
sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of
witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.
Bottom Line: there is no legitimate, God-given way past the glass ceiling in
New Testament Christianity; and the sooner a born-again Christian woman
comes to terms with it the sooner she will be at peace with Christ.
†. John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do as I wish.
And the sooner she will be at peace with God's Spirit.
†. Eph 4:30 . . Grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto
the day of redemption.
†. Eph 5:8-11 . . For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in
the Lord: walk as children of light: (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all
goodness and righteousness and truth) proving what is acceptable unto the
Lord. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but
rather reprove them.
But as I said before: a truly born-again female pastor is in zero danger of
the abyss though her conduct be no better than that of a pagan heathen.
†. John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
†. Rom 8:1-2 . .There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ
Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set them free
from the law of sin and death.
==========================================