Tired of the Big LIE

[Utah]

Here is the defenition of a heretic. And as I posted earlier, Paul calls you a fool.

A person who turns the grace gift of God into a works, earned salvation.

I highlighted the self imposed works you say are required to EARN eternal life.

Your just proved by your very statement, your faith is not in God, Your faith is in your ability to do all the things you claimed you MUST DO, ie, it is in yourself.

Good luck in trusting yourself.

As for me and my household. we will trust the Lord.

News flash. You can do ALL of those things, and still not be worthy of eternal life. why? because the law still condemns you. You my friend, are under law, not under grace, you have no knowledge of what grace is.. You are like the pharisee, showing everyone all you DO, or MUST DO, and how your not like the sinner,

And have failed to be the tax collector. who lived a life of sin, And came to God on his knees begging for Gods mercy.

As jesus said, he went away justified (declared innocent), not the pharisee.

You my friend, are the pharisee.

That's twice in 24 hours he's been called a Pharisee. Me thinks he should ask God to open his heart.

But he won't. That would take humility.

 

[Sirk]

That's twice in 24 hours he's been called a Pharisee. Me thinks he should ask God to open his heart.

But he won't. That would take humility.

people get stuck in ruts of thinking. You can call them thinking errors or nueral ruts....whatever you wanna call them. Typically God will use a crisis to try to guide His children back on the path. Unfortunately, some go deeper into mental illness instead of taking an honest look at "the man in the mirror".

 

[JesusistheChrist]

That's twice in 24 hours he's been called a Pharisee. Me thinks he should ask God to open his heart.

But he won't. That would take humility.

...said the impenitent, proud liar.

If not, then document the lie that you told about me and I previously called you out on.

I won't be holding my breath...

 

[Utah]

Every Christian is given the righteousness of God in Christ, to replace the flesh unrighteousness. You seem to say you repent of some sins, but hang on to others, always remaining with sin, so call yourself a sinner. Upon true repentance a person is at least for a while sin-free until sinning again, else it is isn't true the Lord forgives upon repenting. But he does do that, enabling us to increasingly live by faith, as all the Just ought to do.

A major part of salvation is that by the help of the Spirit we should stop thinking ourselves as sinners, but "I am righteous in Christ." When righteous our first impression is to do the words of Christ. Reading the 4 gospels you won't see much theology from Jesus. He taught people how to enter into the Kingdom, and what to do there, how to live pleasing to God. He was very practical. There epistles carry on with theology helping us to catch up to the full mind of Christ. That's why it all comes into us, two helpers, the Spirit and the word, even our very faith.

Having the righteousness of Christ in me doesn't mean I no longer sin at all. It makes me be quick to repent, and quicker to not enter into a sin situation. As fruit of the spirit grows in me, I exercise wisdom, which is often just clamping my mouth shut instead of sinning with my tongue.

Galatians 2:15-21 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Thank you, friend, for sharing that. I have believed in Jesus from a very early age, and have always rejoiced, yet I used to seriously see myself as White Trash and said as much. Then one day a sister in Christ shared with me what you have here. My eyes were opened and I embraced the fact that in Christ I am a new Creation, not White Trash.

Yet be that as it may, I am cautious to remain humble. I repent of all my sins, not just some, but the fact remains I am a sinner. In the midst of typing this, I was interrupted by someone and, guess what, I sinned. I spoke negatively about someone rather than rebuking the conversation. I am aware of this and am trying to overcome such gossip. I'm a work in progress. We all are, and I thank Jesus for His saving grace.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Repost !!!


1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.




1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.




1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.




2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.




Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.




1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.




Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Yes but even so if you look at the definition you just gave it still says that it is an expectation of receiving it, not that it is already an actual physical possession of ours right now. So your definition does not change the fact I have been saying all along that it is a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......

Assurance and expectation are two different words with similar meanings, that state of the confidence of getting something to come......

So I am not born again of the Spirit, indwelt with the Spirit, sealed with holy Spirit NOW? I only have "a mental possession of assurance"? I have an expectation for receiving something but I may not receive it?

I have been made a promise - I might receive it but I might not - that is ASSURANCE? If I can't trust and depend on God to fulfill his promises - then I have no HOPE . . I stay in an unsaved state. It's funny that 1 John 3:2 says that NOW I am a child of God . . in order for me to be a child of God NOW, I must be bon again of the Spirit, indwelt with the Spirit and sealed with holy Spirit NOW.

Well did Jesus say those who sit on their butts and do nothing get salvation, or did He say those who do, follow, and live out God's will in their life get salvation ?

My Lord Jesus in His words in the bible says those who do, not those who don't do.
He says much was given to us, and much will be required. The bible gives all over it standards of a born again believer, and states along with them that if those standards are not in your life then you are not a true born again believer. This does not mean you have to work to earn salvation which seems to be something you can not get over in looking at. As nobody can do that. It is about walking in love, obedience, and forgiveness as a true born again believer will do. If you are not walking in love, obedience, and forgiveness the bible makes it very clear you are not born again.
The bible clearly states we will know believers and unbelievers by their actions (fruit), if you say we can continue to live however we want because actions/works don't matter then the bible would be lying. Because there would be no way to tell one from the other, and the bible does state that there will be some who profess Him but they really are not.

We are told to believe in the only begotten Son of God - receive eternal life. We are told to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead - saved. Now in order for one to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead, a person has heard enough of the word of God to have "godly sorrow which leads to repentance" - that repentance is shown in the fact that they have admitted they need a savior by confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead - all ONE step - all happens at once. NOTE: This is salvation.

What we do after we come to salvation - is considered a Christian's walk. We are now in the household of God, we belong to the family of God - that is by and through being born of incorruptible seed. We are to NOW walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. We are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we are to renew our minds to the word of God, etc. You are combining all this into salvation but it is separate. When we are born into a family we have "rules and regulations", not to punish us but to benefit our lives. If we don't follow the "rules and regulations", we may suffer immediate consequences or later down the road the consequences may come BUT we still belong in the "household", the family of God.

 

[Jason0047]

Repost !!!


1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.




1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.




1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.




2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.




Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;




Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.




1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.




1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.




2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.




Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

I believe this is talking about Glorification (Which is the final stage of our salvation). For Justification is receiving Christ and being humble before Him by being penitent or in repenting of one's sins. Sanctification is the process that Christ does within us. It is Christ (God) doing the good work in you. In other words, Salvation is made up of Justificatiion, Sanctification, and Glorification. The Sanctification process is not one trying to save themselves by works. It is the natural result of salvation from Justiification. It is the effect from the Cause of Justification and by having God live within you. For it is God that does the work in the believer. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

However, believers can have an assurance of their salvation right now, though (1 John 5:13).

 

[notuptome]

You ask: You are going to hold fast to what?

…if you hold fast that word which I preached to you… (1 Corinthians 15:1-2)

…if indeed you continue in the faith… (Colossians 1:23)

…faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God… (Romans 10:17)


You say: Jesus is holding fast to me. I'm sheltered in the palm of His hand.

Good luck depending on yourself. I'm just going to depend on Jesus.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? (Luke 6:46)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

You are simply going to fall back on the old accuse them of not doing. Doing has nothing to do with righteousness. You have no idea of what I do or do not do. The point remains that Christ has done all that the Father required and Christ did it for me. I can do nothing to add to what Christ has done. Salvation is a completed transaction the moment I believe Christ. Sealed for all of eternity by the Holy Spirit awaiting glorification with Christ.

To trust Jesus is to stop trusting in yourself. Any good I do I do because of Christ and not of anything of me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Utah]

people get stuck in ruts of thinking. You can call them thinking errors or nueral ruts....whatever you wanna call them. Typically God will use a crisis to try to guide His children back on the path. Unfortunately, some go deeper into mental illness instead of taking an honest look at "the man in the mirror".

My Brother, let me share this with you. You'll appreciate it.

When I was a teenager, I met Mary Jane, aka marijuana. We fell in love and went everywhere together for seven years. Then one day Mary Jane did me wrong, and rather than being high, I had a panic attack. Then again, and again, and even still again. You'd think I'd have gotten the message to break up with Mary Jane, but I didn't.

Then one day, God struck me down. My panic attack after being with Mary Jane was so severe it lasted for weeks and I was in total despair. I begged God with a sorrowful heart to forgive me, cleanse me, and be first in my life. And God did just that!

In all honesty, once in a very great while I'll visit Mary Jane, the difference being, God is first in my life.
I thank God for that experience and the eternal results that are now brought forth. Glory be to God!

 

[Jason0047]

I believe this is talking about Glorification (Which is the final stage of our salvation). For Justification is receiving Christ and being humble before Him by being penitent or in repenting of one's sins. Sanctification is the process that Christ does within us. It is Christ (God) doing the good work in you. In other words, Salvation is made up of Justificatiion, Sanctification, and Glorification. The Sanctification process is not one trying to save themselves by works. It is the natural result of salvation from Justiification. It is the effect from the Cause of Justification and by having God live within you. For it is God that does the work in the believer. For Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

However, believers can have an assurance of their salvation right now, though (1 John 5:13).

I forgot to add:

Glorification is God taking you to be with Him in the after life.

 

[Utah]

...said the impenitent, proud liar.

If not, then document the lie that you told about me and I previously called you out on.

I won't be holding my breath...

If I was wrong in my specifics, then I apologize, but I'm clearly not wrong regarding your overall condescending Pharisee complex.

 

[dcontroversal]

You are simply going to fall back on the old accuse them of not doing. Doing has nothing to do with righteousness. You have no idea of what I do or do not do. The point remains that Christ has done all that the Father required and Christ did it for me. I can do nothing to add to what Christ has done. Salvation is a completed transaction the moment I believe Christ. Sealed for all of eternity by the Holy Spirit awaiting glorification with Christ.

To trust Jesus is to stop trusting in yourself. Any good I do I do because of Christ and not of anything of me.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I agree with this.....Jesus has satisfied the Father on our behalf....we trust into the work that he accomplish on our behalf....any good that may be done AFTER salvation is Jesus through us by the power of the Holy Spirit.....that is why salvation is a free GIFT of grace based upon faith.....It is all about Jesus at the end of the day for sure.......

 

[Utah]

Jason, I don't know how to cut and paste like you did so I'll have to go on memory.

People who are non-forgiving or blasphemous or manipulate God's Word are indeed in peril of some sort, but God never stops loving them. Nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Jesus.

Jesus telling us to be perfect means to be mature, merciful, obeying the Greatest Commandments.

As for believers with unrepentant hearts and their salvation? Do such people even exist? I could argue that people with unrepentant hearts are actually not believers, either that or they're seriously malnourished in the faith. But in saying that I leave myself open to being judgmental towards such people and I don't wish to be. If such people exist, that's between God and them.

 

[Sirk]

If I was wrong in my specifics, then I apologize, but I'm clearly not wrong regarding your overall condescending Pharisee complex.

i think the mentality that focuses on differences is as much of a sin as emotionally abusing someone and probably are not mutually exclusive.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Repost !!!
1 Timothy 4:8
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

having a promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come - How an I rely on that promise if it is just "a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......"?

1 Timothy 6:12
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

1 Timothy 6:19
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

lay HOLD on eternal life - How can I lay hold of something that is just "a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......"?

2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Paul endured all things for the elect's sake - to continue to set that good foundation - Jesus Christ and him crucified - for the brethren.

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Promised to those who believe in the only begotten Son of God but promised as only "a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......"?

Titus 3:7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

We are heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ . . . but only as "a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......"?

1 Peter 1:4-5
to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead . . . that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you who are kept by the power of God through faith - "a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......"? Did Jesus Christ rise from the dead? I would say that "lively hope" is much more than "a mental possession of assurance that you will receive it......"?

1 Peter 1:9
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Who makes us perfect? Who establishes us? Who strengthens us? Who settles us? "the God of all grace . . ."

2 Peter 1:10-11
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Do what things? - giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; and to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For is these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ . . . and we have to do this to be saved, i.e. for salvation?

Jude 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

How do we keep ourselves in the love of God [besides staying in the word]? - But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the holy Spirit - keep yourselves in the love of God . . . I also believe that we are told that NOTHING shall separate us from the love of Christ.

 

[3Scoreand10]

First, Galatians 5:24 says, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Yet, you say you sin every day. However, Scripture says, "they that are Christ's have crucified... the affections and lusts."

Who am I going to believe? You or Scripture?

Well, I say this in love, but I choose Scripture.

Second, you say "sin" does not control your life yet you then also say that you sin every day. That is like an alcoholic who says drinking does not control him anymore and yet he is drinking daily.

So you are saying that you do not sin.
You are deceiveing yourself.---I John 1:8
You make God a liar.--I John 1:10

 

[3Scoreand10]

First, Galatians 5:24 says, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

Yet, you say you sin every day. However, Scripture says, "they that are Christ's have crucified... the affections and lusts."

Who am I going to believe? You or Scripture?

Well, I say this in love, but I choose Scripture.

Second, you say "sin" does not control your life yet you then also say that you sin every day. That is like an alcoholic who says drinking does not control him anymore and yet he is drinking daily.

You must have a very limited definition of what is sin.
I will tell you like I told Ken---
I do not believe you when you say you do not sin
I know , you call it mistakes.

 

[dcontroversal]

So you are saying that you do not sin.
You are deceiveing yourself.---I John 1:8
You make God a liar.--I John 1:10

Like the Pharisee of OLD.....I THANK GOD I am not like this scumbag sinner over there......amazes me how many people will say that they don't sin and then cover their sin by calling it messing up or slipping up.......what a farce for sure....

John who was the apostle of the Lord that Jesus loved wrote in the present tense and said clearly...IF WE say that WE have NO SIN, WE ARE DECIEVED and the TRUTH is not in US

WE, WE, WE and US<---He included himself and wrote 5 books of the N.T., rested his head on the breast of Christ, was loved of JESUS, blessed of JESUS and writes of his own sin.......

Then when you have the guts to admit you sin they will jump on the band wagon and accuse you of living a life of willful, rebellion and sin while claiming there own righteous deeds and inability to sin....but if we sin we loose our salvation, yet they MESS UP and never lose their salvation....amazing hypocrisy and a lack of understanding for sure.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Well if you want to assert that coming to Jesus and confessing that you are a sinner and asking Jesus to save you can be accomplished with repentance then I wonder what you got.

You see when I got saved everything changed. I became a new creation in Christ. The things I felt and did changed. Jesus changed me not me changing me. 2 Corinthians 5:17

If you are changing yourself through some form of repentance then perhaps you got something other than what I got. You see Jesus saved without condition. Jesus saved me because He loves me not because I loved Him. Since He saved me I can love Him.

Conversion is a really big event. Sanctification is a really long term process. Glorification is a future event to which I look forward with great anticipation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I got mine from the Word, not some wet noodle preacher afraid of losing most of his sheep if the truth be told. I wouldn't want to hear a gospel of Jesus saving without condition. The Bible doesn't support that at all. I'll do some text emphasis for easy reading.

Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
There's 2 conditions straight from Jesus.


Acts 3:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

For a third witness I present this warning from Jesus to the Church of Ephesus.

Revelation 2:5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Any doctrine that promotes unconditional salvation is from Satan. Sadly many people prefer that, not willing to give up pet sins.

 

[dcontroversal]

So I am not born again of the Spirit, indwelt with the Spirit, sealed with holy Spirit NOW? I only have "a mental possession of assurance"? I have an expectation for receiving something but I may not receive it?

I have been made a promise - I might receive it but I might not - that is ASSURANCE? If I can't trust and depend on God to fulfill his promises - then I have no HOPE . . I stay in an unsaved state. It's funny that 1 John 3:2 says that NOW I am a child of God . . in order for me to be a child of God NOW, I must be bon again of the Spirit, indwelt with the Spirit and sealed with holy Spirit NOW.

We are told to believe in the only begotten Son of God - receive eternal life. We are told to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead - saved. Now in order for one to confess Jesus as Lord and believe God raised him from the dead, a person has heard enough of the word of God to have "godly sorrow which leads to repentance" - that repentance is shown in the fact that they have admitted they need a savior by confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised him from the dead - all ONE step - all happens at once. NOTE: This is salvation.

What we do after we come to salvation - is considered a Christian's walk. We are now in the household of God, we belong to the family of God - that is by and through being born of incorruptible seed. We are to NOW walk by the Spirit and not by the flesh. We are to mortify the deeds of the flesh, we are to renew our minds to the word of God, etc. You are combining all this into salvation but it is separate. When we are born into a family we have "rules and regulations", not to punish us but to benefit our lives. If we don't follow the "rules and regulations", we may suffer immediate consequences or later down the road the consequences may come BUT we still belong in the "household", the family of God.

I agree for sure.....many are blind to the current reality of eternal life that we already possess in the present sense.....It is the spirit that is born of God and it is housed in a fallen, sinful body of flesh.....God's kingdom is spiritual and the Spirit that has been born of God is eternally sealed, saved and justified in Christ based upon the work of Christ....Praise God for the eternal salvation found in Christ.......!