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this is as it is , in few. i used to think that all church goers were saved, in every chruch, and over years they all proved that false by their own willing admittance/confession. (and they actually are willing to answer very simple questions about their 'faith' to see if they are saved or not, according to scripture, and they all, almost without exception, admit that they are not willing ; and that they 'trust' someone else instead of yahshua hamashiach (jesus messiah) for their needs.)
it is amazing and a miracle that there are still any on earth who trust yahshua completely with their lives, as i readily and joyfully do by sheer grace - a sheer gift of yahweh.
and everyone who trusts him entirely as it is written, are taught by him, and abide in union with him with all ekklesia in him, like little children, as no manmade group is able to bring about. (both Jew and gentile are one in him, without a dividing wall, in his body. and they live as one, everywhere they are on earth. it is rare, and hardly ever seen, this true life in him. so much has to be given up, to receive what he gives, including truth, just as he always told all his disciples; so it is.)
it is amazing and a miracle that there are still any on earth who trust yahshua completely with their lives, as i readily and joyfully do by sheer grace - a sheer gift of yahweh.
and everyone who trusts him entirely as it is written, are taught by him, and abide in union with him with all ekklesia in him, like little children, as no manmade group is able to bring about. (both Jew and gentile are one in him, without a dividing wall, in his body. and they live as one, everywhere they are on earth. it is rare, and hardly ever seen, this true life in him. so much has to be given up, to receive what he gives, including truth, just as he always told all his disciples; so it is.)
Rom 11:1,2 the people God foreknew and has not cast off are Christians. Later the context says God DID cast off fleshly Israel. Paul was a fleshly Jew, so why had he not be cast off? For he became a Christian.
Rom 11:11 the Jews being cast off was not the absolute end of them for they could still find salvation through Christ, if they quit rejecting Christ. But the Jews rejection of Christ and His gospel meant the gospel came sooner to the Gentiles.
Rom 11:17,18 those Gentiles that believed the gospel becoming Christians were being warned by Paul not to be high-minded over the Jews God cast off for the Gentiles can be cast away also if they are not careful.
ROm 11:28ff God promised the Jews in the OT salvation through the Messiah, but since the Jews rejected the Messiah God will not revoke that promise but let it continue, God will leave that door of salvation open for the Jews.
So the restoration of the Jews will only be through Christ. Rejecting Christ will leave them lost.
Rom 11:11 the Jews being cast off was not the absolute end of them for they could still find salvation through Christ, if they quit rejecting Christ. But the Jews rejection of Christ and His gospel meant the gospel came sooner to the Gentiles.
Rom 11:17,18 those Gentiles that believed the gospel becoming Christians were being warned by Paul not to be high-minded over the Jews God cast off for the Gentiles can be cast away also if they are not careful.
ROm 11:28ff God promised the Jews in the OT salvation through the Messiah, but since the Jews rejected the Messiah God will not revoke that promise but let it continue, God will leave that door of salvation open for the Jews.
So the restoration of the Jews will only be through Christ. Rejecting Christ will leave them lost.
K
A quote from a well known pastor...
"Where are the Babylonians? Where are the Romans? Where are the Greeks? Where are the Persians?Where is the Ottoman Empire? Where is that lunatic Hitler...? They are all historical footnotes in the bone yard of human history.
Where is Israel? Where are the Jewish people? They are alive and well in the only democracy in the Middle East.The Jewish people survived pogroms and persecution.They have outlasted Pharaohs slavery and Hitlers final solution.They are a living testimonial that there is a God in heaven who keeps his word."
The Presbyterian Church stated....It is agonizing to discover that the churches teaching of contempt for the Jews was a major ingredient that made possible the monstrous policy of annihilation of Jews by Nazi Germany.
From the Catholic Church....What happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures...The Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. ...God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their fathers,he does not repent of the gifts He makes or the calls He issues.
"Where are the Babylonians? Where are the Romans? Where are the Greeks? Where are the Persians?Where is the Ottoman Empire? Where is that lunatic Hitler...? They are all historical footnotes in the bone yard of human history.
Where is Israel? Where are the Jewish people? They are alive and well in the only democracy in the Middle East.The Jewish people survived pogroms and persecution.They have outlasted Pharaohs slavery and Hitlers final solution.They are a living testimonial that there is a God in heaven who keeps his word."
The Presbyterian Church stated....It is agonizing to discover that the churches teaching of contempt for the Jews was a major ingredient that made possible the monstrous policy of annihilation of Jews by Nazi Germany.
From the Catholic Church....What happened in His passion cannot be charged against all the Jews, without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews of today. Although the Church is the new people of God, the Jews should not be presented as rejected or accursed by God, as if this followed from the Holy Scriptures...The Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel's spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.
Besides, as the Church has always held and holds now, Christ underwent His passion and death freely, because of the sins of men and out of infinite love, in order that all may reach salvation. ...God holds the Jews most dear for the sake of their fathers,he does not repent of the gifts He makes or the calls He issues.
K
One of the most well-known detractors of Jews was the Church father John Chrysostom (354-430), who accused the Jews of, among other things, idolatry and housing the Devil himself in their synagogues...n his “First Homily Against the Jews”,Chrysostom insisted that, “Jews are dogs, stiff-necked, gluttonous, drunkards. They are beasts unfit for work… The Jews had fallen into a condition lower than the vilest animals… The synagogue is worse than a brothel and a drinking shop; it is a den of scoundrels, a temple of demons, the cavern of devils, a criminal assembly of the assassins of Christ…. I hate the Jews, because they violate the Law… It is the duty of all Christians to hate the Jews.”
Several centuries later, this visceral anti-Jewish propaganda was refuelled by the influential reformer Martin Luther. When asked, “What shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?” Luther responded:
“First, their synagogues should be set on fire… Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed… Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught… Fifthly, travelling privileges must be absolutely forbidden to Jews… If however we are afraid that they might harm us personally… then let us settle with them for that which they have extorted usuriously from us, and after having divided it up fairly, let us drive them out of the country for all time.”
Centuries later, such pronouncements were a source of inspiration to the Nazis. Both Chrysostom and Luther were quoted by Nazi officials and their works were reprinted by the Third Reich. Quite strikingly, their views were also quoted by the defence in the Nuremberg war crimes trials. For instance, Julius Streicher, editor of the anti-Semitic weekly Der Stürmer, asserted at his trial that Martin Luther also should have been there presenting his case. Thus one can clearly see the link between classic Christian anti-Judaism and modern racist anti-Semitism.
Because Christianity shared a tradition with Judaism, the Jews constituted a perpetual challenge to Christian truth. Even more disturbing was the fact that the Christian Messiah hailed from the House of David. One way of overcoming this dilemma was to increasingly diminish and blot out the Jewish identity of Jesus.
As a consequence, the Jewish character of Jesus was removed and he became first and foremost a Christian, leaving little to connect Christians to Judaism. However, Jesus was indeed a Jew, as were his family and disciples, and there is nothing in the New Testament which negates that.
In Matthew 5:17. Jesus states clearly:"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them.”
Similarly, the Gospels record Jesus celebrating the Jewish holidays, and describe him as wearing the garments of a religious Jewish male.
Perhaps the saddest attempt at removing any traces of Jewishness both from Church practices in general and from Jesus’ persona in particular took place in the Nazi era and the effort to ‘de-judaize’ Germany. To this end “Deutsche Christen”, the so-called German Christian Church, disassociated Christianity from the Old Testament altogether and turned Christ into a perfect “Aryan Jesus”. They also published their own de-judaized New Testament, altered their hymn books, and updated their catechism, all in the effort to rid German Christianity of all Jewish influence.
It is no wonder then that when Kristallnacht – the Night of the Broken Glass – took place on November 9, 1938 the churches of Germany were silent. The mass pogrom saw 30,000 Jews rounded up and taken to concentration camps, while 1,000 synagogues were burned all over Germany. The lack of public criticism left the Nazis with a sense that they now had a license to forge ahead with anti-Jewish actions, including the confiscation of Jewish property. As far as I know, there was only one church leader who publicly lamented that “synagogues too are houses of God”.By the time Germany ignited World War Two in 1939, many opportunities to react had been lost. Increasingly, churches throughout Europe mostly kept silent while Jews were persecuted and murdered. Any protest was exceptional.
Several factors lay behind this deafening silence: anti-Judaism in churches expressed in sermons and by other means; Europe’s identity as a primarily Christian continent and a perceived need to protect the church institutions themselves. This, in turn, raises a very profound question: In times of crisis, is it more important for a church to protect its institution or to be a voice of morality?
What does come through clearly are the limits of human compassion. In such a situation, how was it possible for only some to react to the Lord’s leading while most of humanity were deaf to His gentle voice.
Excerpt from The Sad Legacy of the Christian Antisemitism
When German synagogues and Jewish businesses were burned and demolished on Kristallnacht, November 9, 1938, Bonhoeffer immediately left for Berlin, despite having been banned by the Gestapo, to investigate the destruction. After his return, when his students were discussing the theological significance of Kristallnacht, Bonhoeffer rejected the theory that Kristallnacht had resulted from "the curse which had haunted the Jews since Jesus' death on the cross." Instead, Bonhoeffer called the pogrom an example of the "sheer violence" of Nazism's "godless face."[SUP]2
[/SUP]
Several centuries later, this visceral anti-Jewish propaganda was refuelled by the influential reformer Martin Luther. When asked, “What shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?” Luther responded:
“First, their synagogues should be set on fire… Secondly, their homes should likewise be broken down and destroyed… Thirdly, they should be deprived of their prayer books and Talmuds in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught… Fifthly, travelling privileges must be absolutely forbidden to Jews… If however we are afraid that they might harm us personally… then let us settle with them for that which they have extorted usuriously from us, and after having divided it up fairly, let us drive them out of the country for all time.”
Centuries later, such pronouncements were a source of inspiration to the Nazis. Both Chrysostom and Luther were quoted by Nazi officials and their works were reprinted by the Third Reich. Quite strikingly, their views were also quoted by the defence in the Nuremberg war crimes trials. For instance, Julius Streicher, editor of the anti-Semitic weekly Der Stürmer, asserted at his trial that Martin Luther also should have been there presenting his case. Thus one can clearly see the link between classic Christian anti-Judaism and modern racist anti-Semitism.
Because Christianity shared a tradition with Judaism, the Jews constituted a perpetual challenge to Christian truth. Even more disturbing was the fact that the Christian Messiah hailed from the House of David. One way of overcoming this dilemma was to increasingly diminish and blot out the Jewish identity of Jesus.
As a consequence, the Jewish character of Jesus was removed and he became first and foremost a Christian, leaving little to connect Christians to Judaism. However, Jesus was indeed a Jew, as were his family and disciples, and there is nothing in the New Testament which negates that.
In Matthew 5:17. Jesus states clearly:"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfil them.”
Similarly, the Gospels record Jesus celebrating the Jewish holidays, and describe him as wearing the garments of a religious Jewish male.
Perhaps the saddest attempt at removing any traces of Jewishness both from Church practices in general and from Jesus’ persona in particular took place in the Nazi era and the effort to ‘de-judaize’ Germany. To this end “Deutsche Christen”, the so-called German Christian Church, disassociated Christianity from the Old Testament altogether and turned Christ into a perfect “Aryan Jesus”. They also published their own de-judaized New Testament, altered their hymn books, and updated their catechism, all in the effort to rid German Christianity of all Jewish influence.
It is no wonder then that when Kristallnacht – the Night of the Broken Glass – took place on November 9, 1938 the churches of Germany were silent. The mass pogrom saw 30,000 Jews rounded up and taken to concentration camps, while 1,000 synagogues were burned all over Germany. The lack of public criticism left the Nazis with a sense that they now had a license to forge ahead with anti-Jewish actions, including the confiscation of Jewish property. As far as I know, there was only one church leader who publicly lamented that “synagogues too are houses of God”.By the time Germany ignited World War Two in 1939, many opportunities to react had been lost. Increasingly, churches throughout Europe mostly kept silent while Jews were persecuted and murdered. Any protest was exceptional.
Several factors lay behind this deafening silence: anti-Judaism in churches expressed in sermons and by other means; Europe’s identity as a primarily Christian continent and a perceived need to protect the church institutions themselves. This, in turn, raises a very profound question: In times of crisis, is it more important for a church to protect its institution or to be a voice of morality?
What does come through clearly are the limits of human compassion. In such a situation, how was it possible for only some to react to the Lord’s leading while most of humanity were deaf to His gentle voice.
Excerpt from The Sad Legacy of the Christian Antisemitism
When German synagogues and Jewish businesses were burned and demolished on Kristallnacht, November 9, 1938, Bonhoeffer immediately left for Berlin, despite having been banned by the Gestapo, to investigate the destruction. After his return, when his students were discussing the theological significance of Kristallnacht, Bonhoeffer rejected the theory that Kristallnacht had resulted from "the curse which had haunted the Jews since Jesus' death on the cross." Instead, Bonhoeffer called the pogrom an example of the "sheer violence" of Nazism's "godless face."[SUP]2
[/SUP]
Yeah, not so much.
Talk about picking and choosing what we like and want to hear?
It's important to realize that Paul is speaking to the remnant, and those who will fall in that group from the cross until now.
Galatians 1:1:
1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), [SUP]2 [/SUP]and all the brethren who are with me,
To the churches of Galatia:
.... then he goes on to say.......
Galatians 1:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [SUP]7 [/SUP]which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
He is addressing this to a remnant.
It always puzzles me as to why everyone skips over the introductions to each book?
He is addressing a specific group......we Christians are suppose to learn and study from it.
Christ has teachings....Paul has guidance.
The entire book of Romans is a guide to those who will switch over/and or believe in Christ .......that are in the Judaism faith.
Once again Christians are to learn and follow it's guidance......or else they usually have weak arguments/explain away, as to why it seems Paul is talking to 2 different sets of people in Romans and other certain books.
Sorry, brother like it or not....explain it away????
Talk about picking and choosing what we like and want to hear?
It's important to realize that Paul is speaking to the remnant, and those who will fall in that group from the cross until now.
Galatians 1:1:
1 Paul, an apostle (not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father who raised Him from the dead), [SUP]2 [/SUP]and all the brethren who are with me,
To the churches of Galatia:
.... then he goes on to say.......
Galatians 1:6
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, [SUP]7 [/SUP]which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. [SUP]9 [/SUP]As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
He is addressing this to a remnant.
It always puzzles me as to why everyone skips over the introductions to each book?
He is addressing a specific group......we Christians are suppose to learn and study from it.
Christ has teachings....Paul has guidance.
The entire book of Romans is a guide to those who will switch over/and or believe in Christ .......that are in the Judaism faith.
Once again Christians are to learn and follow it's guidance......or else they usually have weak arguments/explain away, as to why it seems Paul is talking to 2 different sets of people in Romans and other certain books.
Sorry, brother like it or not....explain it away????
Like I said I'm not sure the 144K or any like them go by any group name?
Nor, do they act or teach like any other....it explains in verses sprinkled throughout the NT and parts of the OT, as to how they are to conduct themselves, and how they will be like?
Like I said...I do not understand it.
They do though.
Nor, do they act or teach like any other....it explains in verses sprinkled throughout the NT and parts of the OT, as to how they are to conduct themselves, and how they will be like?
Like I said...I do not understand it.
They do though.
Yes, we can, from the NT word of God.
I'm not so sure the NT view of the matter has been presented to you.
But let's be kind to each other in reviewing the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)
through the NT writers.
Peter states that believers in Jesus Christ are a chosen people (1Pe 2:9, 1:1-2).
Do you believe that those who reject Jesus Christ can be children of God, God's chosen people?
Or, are they enemies of God? (Ro 11:28)
Keeping in mind that Jesus said to Nicodemus, a man of the Pharisees who was a member of the Jewish ruling council, that "whoever does not believe stands condemned already (by the law) because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (Jn 3:18)
And keeping in mind that "whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
(Jn 3:36)
And keeping also in mind that only a remnant of the Jews is chosen (Ro 9:27, 11:5); i.e., those who believe in Jesus Christ.
But "repent" is to change one's mind and one's way.
Does the NT ever require us to change our minds about what we don't think in the first place,
or to repent of actions we have not done?
In the NT we cannot repent for the sins of others.
Keeping in mind that this is not just a "belief," it is what the NT states in
Peter's speech to the Jewish crowd ad Pentecost - "you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross." (Ac 2:23)
Stephen's speech to the Sanhedrin - ". . .you have betrayed and murdered him (the Righteous One)," (Ac 7:52)
But that is not what the NT teaches.
Only a remnant, not all Jews--not those who reject Jesus Christ--are God's chosen people (Ro 9:27, 11:5).
"Replacement theology" is a Jewish misnomer for the teaching of the NT in
1Pe 2:9, 1:1-2 - where believers in Christ are a chosen people;
Jn 3:18, 36 - where those who reject Christ are enemies of God upon whom his wrath remains;
Ro 9:27, 11:5 - where only the remnant which believes in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18, 36) are God's chosen people;
Well actually, according to the NT, only those who believed in the Promise (Jesus Christ) were saved in the OT, and only those who believe in Jesus Christ (the Promise) are saved in the NT,
which in both cases is only a remnant of both the Jews and the Gentiles.
Jews and Gentiles are on the same footing in the NT, only faith in Jesus Christ makes one a chosen child of God.
I'm not so sure the NT view of the matter has been presented to you.
But let's be kind to each other in reviewing the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)
through the NT writers.
Peter states that believers in Jesus Christ are a chosen people (1Pe 2:9, 1:1-2).
Do you believe that those who reject Jesus Christ can be children of God, God's chosen people?
Or, are they enemies of God? (Ro 11:28)
Keeping in mind that Jesus said to Nicodemus, a man of the Pharisees who was a member of the Jewish ruling council, that "whoever does not believe stands condemned already (by the law) because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (Jn 3:18)
And keeping in mind that "whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
(Jn 3:36)
And keeping also in mind that only a remnant of the Jews is chosen (Ro 9:27, 11:5); i.e., those who believe in Jesus Christ.
But "repent" is to change one's mind and one's way.
Does the NT ever require us to change our minds about what we don't think in the first place,
or to repent of actions we have not done?
In the NT we cannot repent for the sins of others.
Keeping in mind that this is not just a "belief," it is what the NT states in
Peter's speech to the Jewish crowd ad Pentecost - "you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross." (Ac 2:23)
Stephen's speech to the Sanhedrin - ". . .you have betrayed and murdered him (the Righteous One)," (Ac 7:52)
But that is not what the NT teaches.
Only a remnant, not all Jews--not those who reject Jesus Christ--are God's chosen people (Ro 9:27, 11:5).
"Replacement theology" is a Jewish misnomer for the teaching of the NT in
1Pe 2:9, 1:1-2 - where believers in Christ are a chosen people;
Jn 3:18, 36 - where those who reject Christ are enemies of God upon whom his wrath remains;
Ro 9:27, 11:5 - where only the remnant which believes in Jesus Christ (Jn 3:18, 36) are God's chosen people;
Well actually, according to the NT, only those who believed in the Promise (Jesus Christ) were saved in the OT, and only those who believe in Jesus Christ (the Promise) are saved in the NT,
which in both cases is only a remnant of both the Jews and the Gentiles.
Jews and Gentiles are on the same footing in the NT, only faith in Jesus Christ makes one a chosen child of God.
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S
So true. We cannot repent of things just because others have twisted them.
I will not repent of my belief that we are saved by Grace through Faith and not by works... even though some twist this to become a licence to sin. We can't water things down or change them just because some people distort them.
I will never make an excuse for what Hitler did. It is not excusable. No doctrine can excuse such an atrocity.
I can't apologize for him either, as I am not in his position and cannot relate.
The fact the RRC gave an apology for Hitler speaks to their ability to relate to him.
I will not repent of my belief that we are saved by Grace through Faith and not by works... even though some twist this to become a licence to sin. We can't water things down or change them just because some people distort them.
I will never make an excuse for what Hitler did. It is not excusable. No doctrine can excuse such an atrocity.
I can't apologize for him either, as I am not in his position and cannot relate.
The fact the RRC gave an apology for Hitler speaks to their ability to relate to him.
K
I dont care what his religious beliefs were.God used Hitler to convince the Jews to go back to their homeland and I sure didn't agree with his views,religious or otherwise.God said he would bring the Jews back to their homeland.In a day a nation was created. Israel fought 5 countries for the right to the land.Ever seen Israel on a map? God's hand is on Israel,its birth is a miracle.Who God used along the way is of no consequence.
K
So why are you using only part of Romans 11 where it says the Jews have been blinded until the time of the Gentiles is over? Then they will believe and no longer be enemies of Christ.The same that happened to you when you were saved.God has blinded the Jews. The end of the verse that you shared says "but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs" God still has a plan for the Jews.Romans 11 proves this.
If you dont believe in the replacement/continuation whatever you'd call it theory then no you have nothing to repent of.I was speaking as a church body not individuals.Israel still has a purpose,God is not done with the Jews.Those who bless them will be blessed those who curse them will be cursed.
I said some of the Jews killed Christ.Read back.Not all.Obviously not since the first Christians were Jews and Jesus disciples were Jews.
As I said before,right now the Jews are blinded until the time of the Gentiles is done.That is why you see very few Jews converting to Christianity today.They are blinded.Now some scholars believe all Jews will be saved,some do not.
Romans 11- I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
- Replacement theology- is the teaching that the Christian church has replaced national Israel regarding the plan, purpose, and promises of God. Therefore, many of the promises that God made to Israel must be spiritualized.
Yes only faith in Jesus makes you a child of God.Go back to Romans,blinded for a time.Then he will take away their sin.
S
His Plan to save all of Israel is through the Remnant. Seeing as Gentiles are grafted in alongside, the meaning of "all Israel" means all those who are elect seed of Abraham, not all those of genetic descent...
Just as through one man the whole world was condemned, so through one man the whole world is saved.
The two issues are the definition of Israel, and the definition of "all".
Just as through one man the whole world was condemned, so through one man the whole world is saved.
The two issues are the definition of Israel, and the definition of "all".