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C
as a jewish believer did you experience anti-christian treatment from your Jewish community?
this subject cuts both ways.
the first christians were Jewish and suffered unspeakable atrocities not only at the hands of Gentiles but also persecution and death at the hands of their Jewish brothers.
do you agree this is not a one-sided issue?
this subject cuts both ways.
the first christians were Jewish and suffered unspeakable atrocities not only at the hands of Gentiles but also persecution and death at the hands of their Jewish brothers.
do you agree this is not a one-sided issue?
The recurring question for me is "Why did gentiles who came to the faith of Abraham in the beginning of the evangelizations turn from it and becaume Hellenized," rather than cleave to the faith of Abraham as taught by our Savior.
Why to the majority of people wh claim the Lamb of God call themselves with a Greek name? It is certain that at Antioch when they were first called anything by converted Jews they most likely were calle Messianics.
Also, if we love the Jews, is it a terrible sacrifice for a believer to recognize that they are the first spiritual and physical descendants of Abraham. I do notmind Messianic Jew as what they claimexpecially when the words are translated completely into English. It means something like "Anointed of Yah praisers of Yah." Do not believe me, believe a good set of books with Hebrew and English, or just believe the Bible.
Why would I say to a Jew, calling himself Messianic is wrong? It has not bee Hellenized; it is original.
It is God's will we love everyone. If you love those you perceive as your enemy, that is is more credit to your faith and love.
Why to the majority of people wh claim the Lamb of God call themselves with a Greek name? It is certain that at Antioch when they were first called anything by converted Jews they most likely were calle Messianics.
Also, if we love the Jews, is it a terrible sacrifice for a believer to recognize that they are the first spiritual and physical descendants of Abraham. I do notmind Messianic Jew as what they claimexpecially when the words are translated completely into English. It means something like "Anointed of Yah praisers of Yah." Do not believe me, believe a good set of books with Hebrew and English, or just believe the Bible.
Why would I say to a Jew, calling himself Messianic is wrong? It has not bee Hellenized; it is original.
It is God's will we love everyone. If you love those you perceive as your enemy, that is is more credit to your faith and love.
K
Romans 9:6-8 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Neither because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
since yahweh brought israel back together,and he knows everyone's lineage (the physical and the spiritual - everything (yes, obviously he knows) ) ., and his own voice spoke and told abraham he would bless those who bless him, and curse those who hurt him, i listen to and agree with yahweh and not man. (however much israel is his nation, he judges) (but it is utterly not recognizing what his word says from genesis to revelation to say they are just another nation of this world)
because christendom doesn't know scripture as well as the Jews do, they claim to be believers in the one true god but they don't obey him, and they have murdered the Jews worldwide practically always.
"christendom"kingdom is not yahweh's kingdom.
"christendom" is not the ekklesia on earth, as "christendom" has been murdering the ekklesia since almost the beginning or even before then of the worldly counterfeit.
the 'church'/ "christendom" was tragically hurt by hellenization/ greek ways of idolatry and society and life and sometimes even the language (although yahweh may or may not have used some of the greek language to guard his word for his purpose; as yahweh is well able to do).
everyone practically today has been raised in a culture world society (even 'churches') that have been
living lies since , well, always (for all practical purposes).
everyone practically today has been raised in deception(in the world and in the world church) wittingly or unwittingly.
most of the worlds "christendom" is not honoring yahweh, as is obvious to the ekklesia, as the
ekklesia (the faithful gathering/assembly of followers of yahshua immersed in his name striving to be living the way he says to in all things, living his life and not our own ("and the life that i now live i live by faith in the son of yahweh who loved me and gave himself for me" i.e. again, not in our own power in any way, but fully submitting and obeying everything yahweh says with all of our heart and souls and minds in christ jesus)
because christendom doesn't know scripture as well as the Jews do, they claim to be believers in the one true god but they don't obey him, and they have murdered the Jews worldwide practically always.
"christendom"kingdom is not yahweh's kingdom.
"christendom" is not the ekklesia on earth, as "christendom" has been murdering the ekklesia since almost the beginning or even before then of the worldly counterfeit.
the 'church'/ "christendom" was tragically hurt by hellenization/ greek ways of idolatry and society and life and sometimes even the language (although yahweh may or may not have used some of the greek language to guard his word for his purpose; as yahweh is well able to do).
everyone practically today has been raised in a culture world society (even 'churches') that have been
living lies since , well, always (for all practical purposes).
everyone practically today has been raised in deception(in the world and in the world church) wittingly or unwittingly.
most of the worlds "christendom" is not honoring yahweh, as is obvious to the ekklesia, as the
ekklesia (the faithful gathering/assembly of followers of yahshua immersed in his name striving to be living the way he says to in all things, living his life and not our own ("and the life that i now live i live by faith in the son of yahweh who loved me and gave himself for me" i.e. again, not in our own power in any way, but fully submitting and obeying everything yahweh says with all of our heart and souls and minds in christ jesus)
From a New testament perspective (which is of course the best perspective) you are certainly correct.
I was approaching the subject in light of Isa 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
KJV
The Church in the first century was predominantly Jewish. The seventh day Sabbath was observed in the synagogues as well as the Lords Day on the first day of the week; but not so among the gentile believers. From God's point of view there is certainly no distinction. To first century Jewish believers there were significant cultural distinctions even if viewed without prejudice
My use of the term 'gentile church' was only meant to be used in refutation of Kenneth's replacement theology.
While in our time there are certainly no distinctives in the first century (when Kenneth presumes that the supposed replacement took place), there were distinctives in men's eyes if not in God's.
K
Its not Hagee 101,He didnt come up with it.The Bible says "Those who bless you will be blessed..." Looooong time before Hagee said it.Met Hagee in person though,gracious and a nice man.
If my house is burned down with my birth certificate inside I may not have proof of who I am but it doesn't change that fact that I'm descended for Canada. That my fathers side came from Scots and my mothers side from England.It burned proof of who I am it didn't change who I am.
K
"I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison, as also the high priest and all the Council can testify. I even obtained letters from them to their brothers in Damascus, and went there to bring these people as prisoners to Jerusalem to be punished" (Acts 22:4-5).
"About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, `Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?' " `Who are you, Lord?' I asked. "`I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,' he replied. My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of him who was speaking to me. " `What shall I do, Lord?' I asked. " `Get up,' the Lord said, `and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.'My companions led me by the hand into Damascus, because the brilliance of the light had blinded me" (Acts 22:6-11).
Saul becomes Paul.If you can forgive Paul for what he did to Christians you can forgive "those guys".
K
I happened to check your profile,hope you dont mind me posting what you said....
Ex Satanist and Kabbalist, a somewhat reluctant Christian but... God gives the orders
With that testimony I would think you'd be a little more sympathetic to the lost.Jews or otherwise.
My mission is to tell everyone about God
Is it really,everyone?
drive out all the fraudsters within Christianity
That isn't your job.The Bible says the wheat and the tares grow together and He will separate them.You can warn people but its up to God to judge who's going to be driven out.
Ex Satanist and Kabbalist, a somewhat reluctant Christian but... God gives the orders
With that testimony I would think you'd be a little more sympathetic to the lost.Jews or otherwise.
My mission is to tell everyone about God
Is it really,everyone?
drive out all the fraudsters within Christianity
That isn't your job.The Bible says the wheat and the tares grow together and He will separate them.You can warn people but its up to God to judge who's going to be driven out.
“Whoever is for the Lord, come to me.” And all the Levites rallied to him.
27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, “You have been set apart to the Lord today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day.”21 Children, guard yourselves against false gods!
22 They said, “A holy angel spoke to Cornelius, ·an army officer [L a centurion] and a ·good [righteous] man; he ·worships [L fears] God. ·All the people [L The whole Jewish nation] ·respect [speak well of; L testify to] him.
27 As he talked with Cornelius, Peter went inside where he ·saw [L found] many people gathered. 28 He said, “You people understand that it is against our law for Jewish people to associate with or visit anyone who is a ·foreigner [Gentile] (SINNER).
Romans 9:14-18Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
14 So are we to say, “It is unjust for God to do this”? Heaven forbid! 15 For to Moshe he says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will pity whom I pity.”[a] 16 Thus it doesn’t depend on human desires or efforts, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Tanakh says to Pharaoh, “It is for this very reason that I raised you up, so that in connection with you I might demonstrate my power, so that my name might be known throughout the world.” 18 So then, he has mercy on whom he wants, and he hardens whom he wants.
34 Then Kefa addressed them: “I now understand that God does not play favorites, 35 but that whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to.
(YAHWEH ACCEPTS GENTILES !!!!!!!! complete shock and surprise !!!!!! unheard of before!!!!!! )
(and that
is what he said what yahweh has called clean do not call unclean - stupid gentiles think he meant food - like they want to remain unclean themselves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, “You have been set apart to the Lord today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day.”21 Children, guard yourselves against false gods!
22 They said, “A holy angel spoke to Cornelius, ·an army officer [L a centurion] and a ·good [righteous] man; he ·worships [L fears] God. ·All the people [L The whole Jewish nation] ·respect [speak well of; L testify to] him.
27 As he talked with Cornelius, Peter went inside where he ·saw [L found] many people gathered. 28 He said, “You people understand that it is against our law for Jewish people to associate with or visit anyone who is a ·foreigner [Gentile] (SINNER).
Romans 9:14-18Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
14 So are we to say, “It is unjust for God to do this”? Heaven forbid! 15 For to Moshe he says, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will pity whom I pity.”[a] 16 Thus it doesn’t depend on human desires or efforts, but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Tanakh says to Pharaoh, “It is for this very reason that I raised you up, so that in connection with you I might demonstrate my power, so that my name might be known throughout the world.” 18 So then, he has mercy on whom he wants, and he hardens whom he wants.
34 Then Kefa addressed them: “I now understand that God does not play favorites, 35 but that whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what people he belongs to.
(YAHWEH ACCEPTS GENTILES !!!!!!!! complete shock and surprise !!!!!! unheard of before!!!!!! )
(and that
is what he said what yahweh has called clean do not call unclean - stupid gentiles think he meant food - like they want to remain unclean themselves !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
International Standard Version
The men replied, "Cornelius, a centurion and an upright and God-fearing man who is respected by the whole Jewish nation, was instructed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his home to hear what you have to say."
NET Bible
They said, "Cornelius the centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man, well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house and to hear a message from you."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
They said to him, “A certain man whose name is Cornelius, a good Centurion and worshiper of God, for whom all the people of the Jews vouch, was told in a vision by a holy Angel to send and bring you to his house and hear a message from you.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The men replied, "Cornelius, a Roman army officer, sent us. He's a man who has God's approval and who respects God. Also, the Jewish people respect him. A holy angel told him to summon you to his home to hear what you have to say."
The men replied, "Cornelius, a centurion and an upright and God-fearing man who is respected by the whole Jewish nation, was instructed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his home to hear what you have to say."
NET Bible
They said, "Cornelius the centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man, well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house and to hear a message from you."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
They said to him, “A certain man whose name is Cornelius, a good Centurion and worshiper of God, for whom all the people of the Jews vouch, was told in a vision by a holy Angel to send and bring you to his house and hear a message from you.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The men replied, "Cornelius, a Roman army officer, sent us. He's a man who has God's approval and who respects God. Also, the Jewish people respect him. A holy angel told him to summon you to his home to hear what you have to say."
International Standard Version
The men replied, "Cornelius, a centurion and an upright and God-fearing man who is respected by the whole Jewish nation, was instructed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his home to hear what you have to say."
NET Bible
They said, "Cornelius the centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man, well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house and to hear a message from you."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
They said to him, “A certain man whose name is Cornelius, a good Centurion and worshiper of God, for whom all the people of the Jews vouch, was told in a vision by a holy Angel to send and bring you to his house and hear a message from you.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The men replied, "Cornelius, a Roman army officer, sent us. He's a man who has God's approval and who respects God. Also, the Jewish people respect him. A holy angel told him to summon you to his home to hear what you have to say."
[h=1]Acts 10 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[/h] 10 There was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a Roman army officer in what was called the Italian Regiment. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was a devout man, a “God-fearer,” as was his whole household; he gave generously to help the Jewish poor and prayed regularly to God.
The men replied, "Cornelius, a centurion and an upright and God-fearing man who is respected by the whole Jewish nation, was instructed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his home to hear what you have to say."
NET Bible
They said, "Cornelius the centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man, well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation, was directed by a holy angel to summon you to his house and to hear a message from you."
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
They said to him, “A certain man whose name is Cornelius, a good Centurion and worshiper of God, for whom all the people of the Jews vouch, was told in a vision by a holy Angel to send and bring you to his house and hear a message from you.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The men replied, "Cornelius, a Roman army officer, sent us. He's a man who has God's approval and who respects God. Also, the Jewish people respect him. A holy angel told him to summon you to his home to hear what you have to say."
[h=1]Acts 10 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[/h] 10 There was a man in Caesarea named Cornelius, a Roman army officer in what was called the Italian Regiment. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was a devout man, a “God-fearer,” as was his whole household; he gave generously to help the Jewish poor and prayed regularly to God.
K
I didn’t say they were, I specifically said that Israel of the flesh, are just another nation of this earth. Those Jews who rejected Jesus Christ, rejected the one whom Abraham worshipped and served all his life long. They are among those curse or hurt Abraham, by rejecting and crucifying the one whom Abraham’s own son typified when he was instructed to sacrifice him by God Himself. As Paul clearly points out in the New Testament, not all who are born of Israel, are of Israel.
Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Only those Jews who have accepted the child of promise who was himself a type of Christ are of the true Israel of God. Those who have become such through the spirit, not the flesh. Those who are of the flesh alone, are no longer the Israel of God.
The Jews themselves who rejected Jesus Christ were one of the main causes of “Christianity” coming into existence. The Jews who rejected Christ persecuted, killed, and imprisoned the Jews who accepted Him. This division within Judaism itself eventually also led to the title of “Christian” being applied to those who accepted Christ, in contrast to those who rejected Him. As it turned out, those who were the real Israel of God in following the Messiah of the same were pushed out by the false Israel of the flesh alone, whom rejected the same. As you have suggested above, this division eventually continued into open apostasy against God and His word. The establishment of the Roman Catholic faith, being the end result of that apostasy. Since that time Roman Catholic influenced kings and governments have been persecuting and killing citizens of the spiritual Israel of God, and those of the literal nation and flesh called Israel also. Countless millions of those who professed Christ were persecuted and murdered by Rome, as well as millions of Jews of the flesh only.
You are wrong to lump all who bear the name Christian into one category. Not all Christians were or are a part of the great apostasy. They are true believers, the spiritual Israel of God who would not be accepted as such by the Jews of the flesh then, and still would not be accepted by them as Jews today either. Those Jews and Gentiles who accepted Christ as the Messiah are the authentic spiritual Israel of the New Covenant era. The Jews of the flesh only, and the apostate “Christians” of today who reject that they were graft into Israel, are not the Israel of God. They both reject the teachings and therefore authority of Christ Himself. They are well on the path to reinstituting their persecutions of the true Israel of God once again. Though Rome herself has never stopped doing so, but only does so behind closed doors until her power is resurrected on a full scale once again.
You are correct. This is all part of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy in accordance with God’s word though. A world government or cooperation of governments, and a world economy are on the way, via the designs of Rome and under her direct control and influence. This will be the final global beast power of biblical prophecy, which will persecute the true and spiritual Israel of God throughout the same. Observe the intentions of Rome specified by her in my nest post.
Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6 ¶ Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Only those Jews who have accepted the child of promise who was himself a type of Christ are of the true Israel of God. Those who have become such through the spirit, not the flesh. Those who are of the flesh alone, are no longer the Israel of God.
The Jews themselves who rejected Jesus Christ were one of the main causes of “Christianity” coming into existence. The Jews who rejected Christ persecuted, killed, and imprisoned the Jews who accepted Him. This division within Judaism itself eventually also led to the title of “Christian” being applied to those who accepted Christ, in contrast to those who rejected Him. As it turned out, those who were the real Israel of God in following the Messiah of the same were pushed out by the false Israel of the flesh alone, whom rejected the same. As you have suggested above, this division eventually continued into open apostasy against God and His word. The establishment of the Roman Catholic faith, being the end result of that apostasy. Since that time Roman Catholic influenced kings and governments have been persecuting and killing citizens of the spiritual Israel of God, and those of the literal nation and flesh called Israel also. Countless millions of those who professed Christ were persecuted and murdered by Rome, as well as millions of Jews of the flesh only.
You are wrong to lump all who bear the name Christian into one category. Not all Christians were or are a part of the great apostasy. They are true believers, the spiritual Israel of God who would not be accepted as such by the Jews of the flesh then, and still would not be accepted by them as Jews today either. Those Jews and Gentiles who accepted Christ as the Messiah are the authentic spiritual Israel of the New Covenant era. The Jews of the flesh only, and the apostate “Christians” of today who reject that they were graft into Israel, are not the Israel of God. They both reject the teachings and therefore authority of Christ Himself. They are well on the path to reinstituting their persecutions of the true Israel of God once again. Though Rome herself has never stopped doing so, but only does so behind closed doors until her power is resurrected on a full scale once again.
You are correct. This is all part of the fulfillment of biblical prophecy in accordance with God’s word though. A world government or cooperation of governments, and a world economy are on the way, via the designs of Rome and under her direct control and influence. This will be the final global beast power of biblical prophecy, which will persecute the true and spiritual Israel of God throughout the same. Observe the intentions of Rome specified by her in my nest post.