DeMystifying the Trinity

[Elin]

Ac 7:30-39 is in the NT, where we learn that
"angels" (messengers) are
created spirits (Heb 1:14),
beings superior to man (Heb 2:7),
belonging to heaven (Mt 24:36; Mk 12:25) and to God (Lk 12:8),
holy (Mk 8:38),
elect (1Tim 5:21),
engaged in God's service as ministering spirits
(Heb 1:14; Mt 1:20, 2;13, 19, 28:2; Lk 1:11, 2:9; Jn 20:12;
Ac 5:19, 8:26, 10:3, 12:7, 23, 27:23),
or evil (2Pe 2:4).

. . .All those in the above Scriptures are "messengers" (angellos).

Then so is Jesus...

Gal 4.13 -14

But you know that because of weakness of the flesh, I announced the gospel to you before; and you did not despise my trial in my flesh nor disdained it, but
you received me as a Messenger (angelon) of God, as Christ Jesus.

Jesus is not an angel here for two reasons:

firstly, grammatically that does not state that Christ Jesus is an angel,
anymore than "you received me as a friend, as your mother," states
that the friend is the mother;

and secondly, it contradicts the NT in Heb 1:4-14.

1) Neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ are angels (Heb 1:4-14).

2) There is no Biblical basis for the Lord Jesus Christ speaking at Sinai
or in the Holy of Holies.

3) You have not shown that Ex 34 is a counterpart of 2Co 3:17, 18
and, therefore, that kurios means God the Father in 2Co 3:17, 18.

4) The word kurios never means God the Father in the NT.

 

[Bowman]

complete ignorance...

Jesus is not an angel here for two reasons:

No one, but you, ever claimed the Jesus was an 'angel'.

He is, however, a 'Messenger.'

firstly, grammatically that does not state that Christ Jesus is an angel,
anymore than "you received me as a friend, as your mother," states
that the friend is the mother;

What would you know about Greek grammar..?

Absolutely nothing.

and secondly, it contradicts the NT in Heb 1:4-14.

1) Neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ are angels (Heb 1:4-14).

Don't pretend that you know about the scripture that you slavishly, regurgitate....because you most assuredly do not.

Observe...


πολυμερως και πολυτροπως παλαι ο θεος λαλησας τοις πατρασιν εν τοις προφηταις επ εσχατου των ημερων τουτων ελαλησεν ημιν εν υιω

POLYMERŌS kai POLYTROPŌS palai ho theos lalēsas tois patrasin en tois prophētais


By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets;


The Book of Hebrews is aptly named for the OT material of which it contains.


Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself ‘by many portions’ (polymeros) and ‘in various forms’ (polytropos).


These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as ‘One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.’


Hebrews informs the reader that communication is now through The Son...in the past, The Son was known as Malek Yahweh, El Shaddai, etc, etc.

 

[Bowman]

2) There is no Biblical basis for the Lord Jesus Christ speaking at Sinai
or in the Holy of Holies.

The Malek Yahweh revealed to Moses that He was the ‘I AM’ and Yahweh (Exo 3.14 -15; 6.3).

 

[Elin]

The Malek Yahweh revealed to Moses that He was the ‘I AM’

. . .and also that he was "The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3:15)

and Yahweh (Exo 3.14 -15; 6.3).

Yes, these are names of God, as are Elohim,, El-Shaddai, etc. etc.

However, the nature of the angel in Ex 3:2 is not certain.

The burning bush that was not consumed by the fire was a manifestation
of the divine presence and glory whose visibility was produced
by the ministry of an angel (Heb 1:14), from within which divine presence
and glory Moses heard God speaking to him, who declared his name to be
"The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
and the God of Jacob," which is God's covenant name,
and which statement Jesus indicates was made by God the Father (Mt 22:31; Lk 20:37).

 

[Elin]

2 Cor 3.16 - 18

Moreover, whenever it turns to (the) Lord, the veil is taken away. Moreover, The Spirit is (the) Lord; moreover, where The SpiritLord (is), there (is) liberty. Moreover, we all(with our) facehaving been unveiled, having beheld The Gloryof (the) Lord,beholding as in a mirror;are being transformed (into)the same imagefrom glory to glory, as from(the) Lord Spirit.

What we are told in this scripture:
·The Spirit is God
·The Glory of God was beheld with our faces (i.e The Son)
·The Spirit is NOT The Son

This text is not saying that the Spirit is God the Father, for kurios in the NT
always means the Lord Jesus Christ, and never means God the Father.

Compare this to the Hebrew source...In Exo 33, Yahweh The Father
states that He will send His faces (i.e. Yahweh The Son and Yahweh The Spirit)...

"And He said, My faces (plural noun) will go (plural verb) with you, and I will give you rest. And they said to Him, If Your faces (plural noun) does not go (plural verb), do not cause us to go up from here."(Exo 33.14 – 15)

The Hebrew word panim used here means both "presence" (Ge 3:8, 25:18, 41:46, Ex 10:11) and "face."

All the translators use "presence" in their translation of Ex 33:14-15,
including in my Bible where the translation was made by over
100 language scholars, including Hebrew and Aramaic.

Your translation of Ex 33:14-15 is incorrect.

This sets the stage for the end of Exo 33, where Moses is allowed to see the
Glory of Yahweh (i.e., The Son & the Spirit). The face of Yahweh the Father cannot be seen.

When Moses' asked God to show him his glory, God's response was that
he would show Moses his goodness (Ex 33:18-19).

God's glory is his goodness . . .which he showed to Moses as he passed in front of him proclaiming "the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin."
(Ex 34:6-7)

In Exo 34, Yahweh the Father comes down to Moses, cloaked in a cloud, and

proclaims Yahweh The Son and Yahweh the Spirit, in the declaration 'Yahweh, Yahweh'...

Please give chapter and verses where that meaning of "Yahweh, Yahweh" is stated, or
give chapters and verses whose clear meanings connect to show that meaning.

Yahweh The Son then spends the next forty days & forty nights, in a face to face discussion with Moses (Exo 34.28).

There is no Biblical basis for "faces" of Yahweh in Ex 34:6,
nor is there any Biblical basis for the glory of the Lord to be the "faces" of God; i.e.,
the Son and the Holy Spirit.

1) Neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ are angels (Heb 1:4-14).

2) There is no Biblical basis for the Lord Jesus Christ speaking at Sinai
or in the Holy of Holies.

3) You have not shown that Ex 34 is a counterpart of 2Co 3:17, 18
and, therefore, that kurios means God the Father in 2Co 3:17, 18.

4) The word kurios never means God the Father in the NT.

 

[Elin]

.
. . . . .Partial Edit of Previous Post, #385:

2 Cor 3.16 - 18

Moreover, whenever it turns to (the) Lord, the veil is taken away. Moreover, The Spirit is (the) Lord; moreover, where The SpiritLord (is), there (is) liberty. Moreover, we all(with our) faces having been unveiled, having beheld The Gloryof (the) Lord,beholding as in a mirror;are being transformed (into)the same imagefrom glory to glory, as from(the) Lord Spirit.

What we are told in this scripture:
·The Spirit is God

2Co 3:16-18 is not saying that the Spirit is God the Father, for kurios in the NT
always means the Lord Jesus Christ, and never means God the Father.

·The Glory of God was beheld with our faces (i.e. The Son)

The glory of the Lord Jesus Christ in 2Co 3:16-18 was beheld with the faces of believers.

·The Spirit is NOT The Son

Agreed.

Compare this to the Hebrew source...In Exo 33, Yahweh The Father
states that He will send His faces (i.e. Yahweh The Son and Yahweh The Spirit)...

"And He said, My faces (plural noun) will go (plural verb) with you, and I will give you rest. And they said to Him, If Your faces (plural noun) does not go (plural verb), do not cause us to go up from here." (Exo 33.14-15)

Firstly, what do the faces of believers in 2Co 3:16-18 have to do with
the "faces" of Yahweh you allege in Ex 33?

Secondly, this is not the first time God has referred to himself as plural.
God is one, wherever he is, the Son and the Holy Spirit are.

Thirdly, the Hebrew word panim used here means both "presence" (Ge 3:8, 25:18, 41:46, Ex 10:11) and "face."

All the translators use "presence" in their translation of Ex 33:14-15,
including in my Bible where the translation was made by over
100 language scholars, including Hebrew and Aramaic.

Your translation of Ex 33:14-15 is incorrect.

This sets the stage for the end of Exo 33, where Moses is allowed to see the
Glory of Yahweh (i.e., The Son & the Spirit). The face of Yahweh the Father cannot be seen.

When Moses' asked God to show him his glory, God's response was that
he would show Moses his goodness (Ex 33:18-19).

God's glory is his goodness . . .which he showed to Moses as he passed in front of him proclaiming "the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin."
(Ex 34:6-7)

There is no Biblical basis for the glory of God in Ex 33:18-34:7 being the "faces" of God; i.e.,
The Son & The Spirit. . . . .

1) Neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ are angels (Heb 1:4-14).

2) There is no Biblical basis for the Lord Jesus Christ speaking at Sinai
or in the Holy of Holies.

3) You have not shown that Ex 34 is a counterpart of 2Co 3:17, 18
and, therefore, that kurios means God the Father in 2Co 3:17, 18.

4) The word kurios never means God the Father in the NT.

 

[Nick1939]

Well, not exactly.

Granted, the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, but three divine persons are, just as the word "sovereign" is not in the Bible, but it is everywhere taught (Da 4:35).

1) Redemption is a function of divinity.
The NT shows three separate divine agents, Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the work of redemption/salvation:

a) Father, Son and Holy Spirit at its beginning (Lk 1:35), the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Mt 3:16-17),

b) the Holy Spirit completing the Father's work of redemption through the son [Ac 2:38-39; Ro 8 (v.26); 1Co 12:4-13 (vv.4-6); Eph 1:3-14 (v.14), 2:13-22 (v.18), 2Th 2:13; 1Pe 1:2];

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:1-15 (vv.5,14-15).

2) The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are bracketed together as the triune name of God.

a) Note in Mt 28:13 that Jesus said this was the name (singular) of the God with whom we enter into relationship.

b) Paul used all three interchangeably in 1Co 12:4-6, they are linked together in prayer for divine blessing in 2Co 13:14, and they are linked in pronouncement of divine blessing in Rev 1:4-5.

3) The close connection in the NT between Father, Son and Holy Spirit show a co-equal relationship:
Paul says "the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit" (2Co 3:16-18), meaning the Spirit is one with Jesus in the unity of the Godhead.
Jesus not only works in men through the Spirit, but the Son and Spirit are co-equal divine beings.
For to express that Christ worked through him, Paul would never say, "The Lord is Paul."
So Paul bears witness to the Spirit's place in the Godhead.

4) The NT shows the Holy Spirit to be a person.
It refers to him with the personal pronoun he, personal titles and personal functions.
The NT shows him acting as a person: speaking (Ac 8:29), deciding (Ac 15:28), forbidding (Ac 16:7), testifying (Ac 5:32), sending out missionaries (Ac 13:14), interceding (Ro 8:26-27).

5) To believe God is Three-In-One is not to violate the word of the OT.
The OT forbid worship of false gods--gods other than, apart from or outside YHWH.
The Son and Holy Spirit are not other than, apart from or outside YHWH any more than his Word (Jn 1:1, 14, 18) or his breath are other than, part from or outside YHWH (Ge 1:2; Job 26:13, 32:8, 33:4, 34:14-15; Ps 33:6).

That YHWH is Three-In-One is the overwhelming testimony of the gospel and the NT.

yes but that is POLYTHEISM ,Mark 12: 29 the Lord thy God is ONE, ( not three ), God bless.

 

[Elin]

Granted, the word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, but three divine persons are, just as the word "sovereign" is not in the Bible, but it is everywhere taught (Da 4:35), and
just as "relationship" is not in the Bible but is, nevertheless, taught there (Jn 17:22).

1) Redemption is a function of divinity.
The NT shows three separate divine agents, Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the work of redemption/salvation:

a) Father, Son and Holy Spirit at its beginning (Lk 1:35), the inauguration of Jesus' public ministry (Mt 3:16-17),

b) the Holy Spirit completing the Father's work of redemption through the son [Ac 2:38-39; Ro 8 (v.26); 1Co 12:4-13 (vv.4-6); Eph 1:3-14 (v.14), 2:13-22 (v.18), 2Th 2:13; 1Pe 1:2];

c) the only way to enter the kingdom of the Father is through faith in the Son and regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:1-15 (vv.5,14-15).

2) The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are bracketed together as the triune name of God.

a) Note in Mt 28:13 that Jesus said this was the name (singular) of the God with whom we enter into relationship.

b) Paul used all three interchangeably in 1Co 12:4-6, they are linked together in prayer for divine blessing in 2Co 13:14, and they are linked in pronouncement of divine blessing in Rev 1:4-5.

3) The close connection in the NT between Father, Son and Holy Spirit show a co-equal relationship:
Paul says "the Lord (Jesus) is the Spirit" (2Co 3:16-18), meaning the Spirit is one with Jesus in the unity of the Godhead.
Jesus not only works in men through the Spirit, but the Son and Spirit are co-equal divine beings.
For to express that Christ worked through him, Paul would never say, "The Lord is Paul."
So Paul bears witness to the Spirit's place in the Godhead.

4)The NT shows the Holy Spirit to be a person.
It refers to him with the personal pronoun he, personal titles and personal functions.
The NT shows him acting as a person: speaking (Ac 8:29), deciding (Ac 15:28), forbidding (Ac 16:7), testifying (Ac 5:32), sending out missionaries (Ac 13:14), interceding (Ro 8:26-27).

5) That God is Three-In-One does not violate the word of the OT.
The OT forbid worship of false gods--gods other than, apart from or outside YHWH.
The Son and Holy Spirit are not other than, apart from or outside YHWH any more than his Word (Jn 1:1, 14, 18)
or his breath are other than, part from or outside YHWH (Ge 1:2; Job 26:13, 32:8, 33:4, 34:14-15; Ps 33:6).

That YHWH is Three-In-One is the overwhelming testimony of the gospel and the NT.

yes but that is POLYTHEISM ,Mark 12: 29 the Lord thy God is ONE, ( not three ), God bless.

I didn't write the NT, which presents the one being God in three persons.

My job is to believe it's overwhelming testimony of it.

 

[Elin]

.
In addition to posts #384, #385 and #386, there is this post.

Don't pretend that you know about the scripture that you slavishly, regurgitate....because you most assuredly do not.

Are you sure about that?

Heb 1:1 By many portions and in various forms, God spoke to the fathers in the prophets

Firstly, the text is referring to how God spoke through the prophets, not through the angels or any other divine messengers.

Secondly,the phrase "various forms" in the Greek is "many ways" (polytropos).

It does not indicate differing "forms" in the sense of the characteristic
form or feature of a person or thing, but rather
differing manners (Ro 3:2; Php 1:18) of speaking through the prophets.

The differing manners of speaking through the prophets were
fragmentary,
occasional only,
lacking in fullness,
lacking in finality,

all of which we now have in the words spoken by his Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2),
whose superiority to the prophets and what they spoke is demonstrated in that
he was appointed heir of all things,
through him the universe was created,
he is the radiance of God's glory,
he is the exact representation of God's being.
he sustains all things by his powerful word, and
he is seated at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven (Heb 1:2-3),

none of which can be said about any of the prophets.

Heb 1:1-2 is not referring to different forms of messengers,
it is referring to different manners of the messages.

Heb 1.1 immediately informs the reader that the One God of the OT has always revealed Himself 'by many portions' (polymeros) and 'in various forms' (polytropos).

These two Greek terms are only used this one time/ea in the entirety of the Holy Bible, and lexically are defined as
One of the constituent parts of a whole; in a context where the whole and its parts are distinguished.

Hebrews informs the reader that communication is now through the Son...
in the past, the Son was known as Malek Yahweh, El Shaddai, etc, etc.

In that last sentence, what is the import of the last half of the sentence in relation to the first half?

And please provide chapter and verses where this last half is stated,
or provide chapters and verses whose clear meanings connect to show that meaning.

1) Neither God the Father nor the Lord Jesus Christ are angels (Heb 1:4-14).

2) There is no Biblical basis for the Lord Jesus Christ speaking at Sinai
or in the Holy of Holies.

3) You have not shown that Ex 34 is a counterpart of 2Co 3:17, 18
and, therefore, that kurios means God the Father in 2Co 3:17, 18.

4) The word kurios never means God the Father in the NT.

And do we have our evidence for the accountable Christian?

 

[MyLighthouse]

If you fail to worship Yahweh, as He has revealed Himself, Triune, then you are not saved.

Simple scriptural truth.


And it shall be that everyone who shall worship the name Lord will be saved." (Acts 2.21)


For everyone, "whoever may worship the name Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)


And we are told that the ‘name’ is one and the same for Father, Son & Spirit...

Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Mat 28.19)





Thus...Elin needs to take a long hard look these two scriptures as they use the term 'Kurios' to represent The Trinity and NOT just Jesus.

Wake up...

Oneness believe that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I've heard this exact argument from a Oneness( And we are told that the ‘name’ (a Oneness would say that name is Jesus) is one and the same for Father, Son & Spirit).... So when they worship Jesus they are worshiping one in the same right? When they baptized in Jesus name, it's one in the same right, so they are baptizing in all 3 because they believe that 3 is one and the same.

You know the egg yoke thing or prism thing, Oneness teach that too you know...

 

[newbirth]

I didn't write the NT, which presents the one being God in three persons.

My job is to believe it's overwhelming testimony of it.

the NT does not present God in three persons...the scripture is clear ...to us there is but one God the Father .....and one Lord Jesus Christ...and this is confirmed in all the salutations of the epistles...go look at them don't take my word for it...
1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

at least you are one better than bowman...he has four entities.....look at his idolgramm...god is god in the middle (1) god is the father(2) god is the son(3) and god is the spirit (4) even though scripture is clear God the father is the one God almighty...he has been relegated by bowman....the man separated God from the Father to make a trinity idologramm

 

[newbirth]

If you fail to worship Yahweh, as He has revealed Himself, Triune, then you are not saved.

Simple scriptural truth.


And it shall be that everyone who shall worship the name Lord will be saved." (Acts 2.21)


For everyone, "whoever may worship the name Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13)


And we are told that the ‘name’ is one and the same for Father, Son & Spirit...

Then having gone, disciple all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (Mat 28.19)





Thus...Elin needs to take a long hard look these two scriptures as they use the term 'Kurios' to represent The Trinity and NOT just Jesus.

Wake up...

if you are told the name is one and the same for all three then it follows all three(in your case four) are each other(the same)...which you say is not so
the first two scriptures you posted shows nothing representing a trinity...the last one was never recorded as being done by the apostles ...they baptised only in the name of Jesus...and I am contending that it is either the apostles disobeyed a direct order from Christ or the original text was altered...

and just to be certain... [h=1]Acts 4:8-13King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]8 [/SUP]Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
[SUP]9 [/SUP]If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

 

[Bowman]

. . .and also that he was "The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham,
the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob" (Ex 3:15)

Then that makes Malek Yahweh, Yahweh, Himself.

Yes, these are names of God, as are Elohim,, El-Shaddai, etc. etc.

OT names of the Trinity...

God The Father was known as:

·Yahweh
·Elohim ‘God’
·El Elyon ‘God Most High’(Gen 14.18, 19, 20, 22)
·El Olam ‘God Eternal’ (Gen 21.33
·Adonai Yahweh ‘Lord Yahweh’ (Gen 15.2, 8)


God The Son was known as:

·El Shaddai ‘God of Mighty Ones’ (Gen 17.1, 28.3, 35.11, 43.14, 48.3, 49.25; Exo 6.3)
·Elohim ‘God’ (Gen 16.13, 22.12, 31.13; Exo 3.6)
·The Malek Elohim ‘The Messenger of God’ (Gen 21.17; 31.11)
·The Malek Yahweh ‘ The Messenger of Yahweh’ (Gen 16.7, 9 - 11; 22.11, 15)
·Debar Yahweh ‘The Word of Yahweh’ (Gen 15.1, 4; Exo 9.20, 21)


God The Spirit was known as:

·The Ruach of Elohim ‘Spirit of God’ (Gen 1.2)
·The Ruach of Yahweh ‘Spirit of Yahweh’ (Gen 6.3)

However, the nature of the angel in Ex 3:2 is not certain.

Its Malek Yahweh...and His deity is completely certain.

The burning bush that was not consumed by the fire was a manifestation
of the divine presence and glory whose visibility was produced
by the ministry of an angel (Heb 1:14), from within which divine presence
and glory Moses heard God speaking to him, who declared his name to be
"The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
and the God of Jacob," which is God's covenant name,
and which statement Jesus indicates was made by God the Father (Mt 22:31; Lk 20:37).

Not at all.

 

[Elin]

I didn't write the NT, which presents the one being God in three persons.

My job is to believe it's overwhelming testimony of it.

the NT does not present God in three persons...

The testimony was presented in post #388 (here) to which you are responding.

 

[Bowman]

This text is not saying that the Spirit is God the Father,

Who, but you, ever said that it does...?

for

kurios in the NT always means the Lord Jesus Christ, and never means God the Father.

Wrong.

You keep making this same, lame assertion ad nausea without even so much as a demonstration.

I have already shown you TWO prime examples where 'Kurios' means The Trinity.....of which, would already comprehend God The Father.

You are pretty far off the deep end...

The Hebrew word panim used here means both "presence" (Ge 3:8, 25:18, 41:46, Ex 10:11) and "face."

All the translators use "presence" in their translation of Ex 33:14-15,
including in my Bible where the translation was made by over
100 language scholars, including Hebrew and Aramaic.

Semantics.

You already acknowledged that it means the same thing.

Your translation of Ex 33:14-15 is incorrect.

That does not follow from your prior agreement.

Its just another blow-hard meritless assertion on your part....

When Moses' asked God to show him his glory, God's response was that
he would show Moses his goodness (Ex 33:18-19).

God's glory is his goodness . . .which he showed to Moses as he passed in front of him proclaiming "the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin."
(Ex 34:6-7)

And...?

Please give chapter and verses where that meaning of "Yahweh, Yahweh" is stated, or
give chapters and verses whose clear meanings connect to show that meaning.

This was already provided in Exo 33...

 

[ChristInUs]

God in three persons the blessed trinity. We are created in the image of God are we not? We have a body, a mind , and a spirit. 3 in one. The baptism of Jesus shows the trinity. WE have the word in the flesh, we have the Holy Spirit descending in the form of a dove and we have the Father speaking from heaven saying "this is my Son in whom I am well pleased".

I know the trinity can be mind boggling, but it is biblical. John chapter 1. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God........... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

 

[Bowman]

Are you sure about that?

Yes.

We can all see your astounding ignorance of the original languages.....from your original 'irrelevancy'...to where you are just now beginning to google a quasi-response.

Keep googling....

Firstly, the text is referring to how

God spoke through the prophets, not through the angels or any other divine messengers.

Show us in the Greek....

Secondly,the phrase "various forms" in the Greek is "many ways" (polytropos).

It does not indicate differing "forms" in the sense of the characteristic
form or feature of a person or thing, but rather
differing manners (Ro 3:2; Php 1:18) of speaking through the prophets.



The differing manners of speaking through the prophets were
fragmentary,
occasional only,
lacking in fullness,
lacking in finality,

all of which we now have in the words spoken by his Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2),
whose superiority to the prophets and what they spoke is demonstrated in that
he was appointed heir of all things,
through him the universe was created,
he is the radiance of God's glory,
he is the exact representation of God's being.
he sustains all things by his powerful word, and
he is seated at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven (Heb 1:2-3),

none of which can be said about any of the prophets.

Heb 1:1-2 is not referring to different forms of messengers,
it is referring to different manners of the messages.

In that last sentence, what is the import of the last half of the sentence in relation to the first half?

Show us a verifiable reference.

Not that you EVER have, of course....but now would be a good time for you to start looking like a scholar instead of a scriptural ignorant who can only assert and never defend...

 

[Elin]

However, the nature of the angel in Ex 3:2 is not certain.

The burning bush that was not consumed by the fire was a manifestation
of the divine presence and glory whose visibility was produced
by the ministry of an angel (Heb 1:14), from within which divine presence
and glory Moses heard God speaking to him, who declared his name to be
"The LORD, the God of your fathers--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
and the God of Jacob," which is God's covenant name,
and which statement Jesus indicates was made by God the Father (Mt 22:31; Lk 20:37).

Not at all.

Jesus said Ex 3:6 was said by God the Father (Mt 22:31).

 

[Bowman]

Oneness believe that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I've heard this exact argument from a Oneness( And we are told that the ‘name’ (a Oneness would say that name is Jesus) is one and the same for Father, Son & Spirit).... So when they worship Jesus they are worshiping one in the same right? When they baptized in Jesus name, it's one in the same right, so they are baptizing in all 3 because they believe that 3 is one and the same.

You know the egg yoke thing or prism thing, Oneness teach that too you know...

Oneness is complete heresy.

The egg yoke analogy is wrong because God is not the result of separate things.

 

[ChristInUs]

HHHMMMM no them by their fruit? Attacking doctrines is on thing but cursing a persons character is another.