God is not Mysterious
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This argument is reverse-engineered, starting with the conclusion and working backward. Why is there "no true love in forcing another to love you"? You assume that this had to be the case, like this was the one thing that God had no power over. God created everything but didn't define "true love"? You're starting with the assumption that love couldn't be forced, and then trying to find a reason for it.
This also applies to your argument about "suffering, pain, evil, and death" due to Satan. What, you think it was never possible for God to make the Earth a "no-go zone" for demons? It's interesting that you blame Satan but let God off the hook for simply watching and not interfering. Of course, I don't believe in demons. I think suffering, pain, evil, and death all have natural explanations (for example, animals die though they never "fell from grace"). Why would I seek supernatural explanations?
This also applies to your argument about "suffering, pain, evil, and death" due to Satan. What, you think it was never possible for God to make the Earth a "no-go zone" for demons? It's interesting that you blame Satan but let God off the hook for simply watching and not interfering. Of course, I don't believe in demons. I think suffering, pain, evil, and death all have natural explanations (for example, animals die though they never "fell from grace"). Why would I seek supernatural explanations?
"If he could, he would".
What is the "power" of prayer if it can only do the things that would happen without it? A prayer and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee; the prayer is optional. If prayer can't change my will, and God can't change my will, and my will has to be changed in order for me to become a Christian, then why call prayer or God "powerful"? Seems like my will is far more powerful than either, and I haven't heard that adjective applied to my will yet.
What is the "power" of prayer if it can only do the things that would happen without it? A prayer and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee; the prayer is optional. If prayer can't change my will, and God can't change my will, and my will has to be changed in order for me to become a Christian, then why call prayer or God "powerful"? Seems like my will is far more powerful than either, and I haven't heard that adjective applied to my will yet.
K
Anything done in forcing others to do something is not love, and we must understand that God put the bible in terms that we would be able to understand. And the world was at first made to have no suffering, death, and hatred in it. Eve was deceived by satan, and by her and Adam eating of the forbidden tree of knowledge all sin enter the world. Leading a world controlled by satan and his demons (fallen angels). Men have evil hearts, and satan does his best to influence our decisions to do wrong. The Lord came to show us the proper way to live by, and is now waiting tell all those who are predestined to be called to His will come to be fulfilled. God is not going to interfere with His own plan just because we feel or want Him to do it now.
If He has predestined that there will be 400 million saved, and so far only 385 million have accepted His salvation, He will wait tell those other 15 million come to Him. He will not come back now and take away their chance at believing in Him for salvation.
So you start a thread for the express purpose of baiting Christians? In other words, you are here to debate, correct and teach Christians to reject Jesus Christ, if you can.
I hope you know that evangelism for other ontologies is not allowed here!
Further the only straw man I see presented here, is your insistence that God MUST answer every prayer we pray or he isn't God. (A very small view of God!)
In fact, yes, no and maybe are all good options to our prayer requests!
YES - because God has answered many of my prayers in amazing ways!
NO - because God has chosen not to answer some of my prayers. In many cases, things would have been very bad for me had God chosen to answer that exact prayer.
MAYBE - because sometimes God wants us to wait, or change something in our lives, or other reasons we cannot fathom.
As for healing, the BIG message of the gospel, is that Jesus came to heal us (deliver us!) from our sins. He is not a big daddy in the sky, who feels pressured to answer every whim, nor every serious request we make.
Sometimes, God is trying to develop our character, in which eternity matters so much more. When God didn't answer my prayers for healing Rheumatoid Arthritis, I got very depressed, and questioned God's judgment. That last for about 4 years. I call it "being in the desert."
But God was more than faithful. I experienced suffering and brokenness and because of that I am better able to minister to those who are suffering or in pain. Because pretty much everyone suffers at some point in their lives.
When my foot reconstruction didn't go as planned, I reflected upon God's answer, "This is not going to turn out the way you think it will." Which is to say, he didn't stop me from getting my foot chopped to pieces, but he was there through it all, and I literally had great peace, through the severe pain of getting my foot chopped to pieces, losing my voice to an RA nodule cause I had to go off meds, not being able to walk for 6 weeks, and then another 4 months in a cast, but with walking.
God was very clear in his Word he had a purpose in mind! Yes, it was mysterious in my myopic sight, but it was truly a gift.
"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]andhope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5.
Did you notice that passage on your 5 read throughs of the Bible? I know when I saw this, I had read the Bible cover to cover, in several languages and different translations over 30 times. A friend of mine went through a very hard time physically and emotionally, and God showed him that verse, which he had never noticed, and he had read the Bible over 50 times!
The Bible is a very complex and rich book. It requires more than a lifetime to learn all the things God has written in the Bible. It never grows old, and it always reveals Jesus a bit more, each day, each verse, chapter and verse read.
You look to prove your point, and personally, I realize the Bible, our testimonies mean nothing to you.
But I will pray God will open your eyes to the truth of Jesus Christ, just as he opened the eyes of this weary, sin-sick and hardened person I was before God revealed himself to me.
I hope you know that evangelism for other ontologies is not allowed here!
Further the only straw man I see presented here, is your insistence that God MUST answer every prayer we pray or he isn't God. (A very small view of God!)
In fact, yes, no and maybe are all good options to our prayer requests!
YES - because God has answered many of my prayers in amazing ways!
NO - because God has chosen not to answer some of my prayers. In many cases, things would have been very bad for me had God chosen to answer that exact prayer.
MAYBE - because sometimes God wants us to wait, or change something in our lives, or other reasons we cannot fathom.
As for healing, the BIG message of the gospel, is that Jesus came to heal us (deliver us!) from our sins. He is not a big daddy in the sky, who feels pressured to answer every whim, nor every serious request we make.
Sometimes, God is trying to develop our character, in which eternity matters so much more. When God didn't answer my prayers for healing Rheumatoid Arthritis, I got very depressed, and questioned God's judgment. That last for about 4 years. I call it "being in the desert."
But God was more than faithful. I experienced suffering and brokenness and because of that I am better able to minister to those who are suffering or in pain. Because pretty much everyone suffers at some point in their lives.
When my foot reconstruction didn't go as planned, I reflected upon God's answer, "This is not going to turn out the way you think it will." Which is to say, he didn't stop me from getting my foot chopped to pieces, but he was there through it all, and I literally had great peace, through the severe pain of getting my foot chopped to pieces, losing my voice to an RA nodule cause I had to go off meds, not being able to walk for 6 weeks, and then another 4 months in a cast, but with walking.
God was very clear in his Word he had a purpose in mind! Yes, it was mysterious in my myopic sight, but it was truly a gift.
"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]andhope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5.
Did you notice that passage on your 5 read throughs of the Bible? I know when I saw this, I had read the Bible cover to cover, in several languages and different translations over 30 times. A friend of mine went through a very hard time physically and emotionally, and God showed him that verse, which he had never noticed, and he had read the Bible over 50 times!
The Bible is a very complex and rich book. It requires more than a lifetime to learn all the things God has written in the Bible. It never grows old, and it always reveals Jesus a bit more, each day, each verse, chapter and verse read.
You look to prove your point, and personally, I realize the Bible, our testimonies mean nothing to you.
But I will pray God will open your eyes to the truth of Jesus Christ, just as he opened the eyes of this weary, sin-sick and hardened person I was before God revealed himself to me.
J
God has certainly answered all the prayers I have prayed which were in line with His will, prayed out of love and truth and without doubt. More prayers than I care to get in to at the moment. I'll share one here though, my family and I were homeless and separated and we just had a daughter in February. I prayed for a place to raise my family. Three months later, in April, we received a brand new apartment for free and lived there for 2 years. It was a government program, but one which is impossible to get on, even now. The waiting list is over 8 years and they stopped taking applications in 2007. I never applied and was not on the waiting list, I didn't really do anything at all, it just fell in my lap while I was sitting on my sisters couch. This happened in 2013. This is just one of many prayers which have been powerfully answered by our Father. "Reality" as many think of it, is nothing but an illusion. God is greater than all things. But it's important to realize that trials and hardships are blessings just as much as the "good" things. Thank God for hardships, because they conform us to Christ and perfect our faith and trust.
Many of the prayers I have prayed, were for trials and hardships. Not because I enjoy suffering, but because I desired the outcome that they produce. Wisdom, perseverance, unshakable faith, love, joy which is not dependent on circumstances, usefulness to God, etc.
Many of the prayers I have prayed, were for trials and hardships. Not because I enjoy suffering, but because I desired the outcome that they produce. Wisdom, perseverance, unshakable faith, love, joy which is not dependent on circumstances, usefulness to God, etc.
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J
I never did.
He made the heavens, the earth, and every amazing thing that fills them. He holds all matter together. He even gives you the ability to be skeptical and have a rational mind. How hard could it be for Him to put someone in an apartment? Beyond simple in comparison
He made the heavens, the earth, and every amazing thing that fills them. He holds all matter together. He even gives you the ability to be skeptical and have a rational mind. How hard could it be for Him to put someone in an apartment? Beyond simple in comparison
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J
A letter was sent out to people on the waiting list, informing them of a brand new apartment building opening up with 4 units that would be part of the government program. It happened to fall into my lap literally. All I did was make a phone call, I just happened to be the first person to respond out of like 4,000 other people. I guess nobody checked to see if we were eligible, it wasn't until after the paperwork was done and we had the keys that we found out that we were supposed to have been on the waiting list.
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J
No lol. You can't even get on the waiting list. They stopped taking applications in 2007, this happened in 2013.
It was a great blessing for our family and allowed us to get on our feet while we took care of our newborn. Now it is helping someone new out as of last month.
It was a great blessing for our family and allowed us to get on our feet while we took care of our newborn. Now it is helping someone new out as of last month.
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