You and Sin?

[Utah]

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 5:48 and Luke 6:36 discuss the same issue and it pertains to loving our enemies. Luke 6:36 says we are to be merciful just as our Father in Heaven is merciful. Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart.

Perfect=G5046 Be [SUP]G2071[/SUP] ye [SUP]G5210[/SUP] therefore [SUP]G3767[/SUP] perfect, [SUP]G5046[/SUP] even [SUP]G5618[/SUP] as your [SUP]G5216[/SUP] Father [SUP]G3962[/SUP] which [SUP]G3588[/SUP] is in [SUP]G1722[/SUP] heaven [SUP]G3772[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] perfect. [SUP]G5046[/SUP]

1. brought to its end, finished
   
2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
   
3. perfect
   
4. that which is perfect
   
5. consummate human integrity and virtue
   
6. 
   of men
   1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

By quoting Romans 7 and implying that the "wretched man" who is "carnal and sold under sin" is actually saved means you believe in a salvation that leaves one in a state of being carnal and sold under sin.

A salvation that leaves one enslaved? That is nonsense and it is astounding that so many people swallow such garbage hook, line and sinker.

Nope, not at all. You misunderstand what Paul is saying in Romans 7.

Paul clearly says in chapter seven that there was something “in the members” of his body that produced difficulty in his Christian life and made him a prisoner of sin. He uses the term “the flesh” to identify this remnant of the old, dead man – a man we can nonetheless resurrect when our own inner desires, lusts, ambition, or reasoning overpowers the voice of the Spirit within us.

We cannot understand “flesh” as only that thing which leads to sin in one of the three realms in which we manifest it: Sex, Money, or Power. Paul uses ‘flesh” to describe the whole man, body, and soul, and reason. All our faculties are included. Everything within us, even when we are possessed by Christ, longs and strives after the flesh.” “Flesh” equates to all our hidden and not-so-hidden affections and desires that run contrary to God.

The manifestation, struggle, and consequences of the flesh could take up many books. In fact, they have. I think we all know what those consequences are, and certainly, despite the denials, Paul knew them as well. Romans 7:14-25 clearly evidences this. Galatians 5 is another chapter where Paul details, though not in that case personally, the conflict of the Spirit and the flesh. We are only so free from the flesh as we practice to be. So how do we practice to be, how do we overcome the flesh?

Three steps:

• Acknowledge our sinful behavior before God
  • Psalm 130:3, NASB: "If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?"
  • 1 John 1:8, 10: "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us ... If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."
• Walk in the Spirit
  • Galatians 2:20: "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
  • Romans 13:12-14: " The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts."
• Starve the flesh
  • 1 Timothy 6:11: "But flee from [sinful] things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness."
  • 1 Corinthians 9:27: "I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
  • Ephesians 4:20-24: "But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth."

The mother of two great preaches and hymn writes, John and Charles Wesley, Susanna, described sin and the flesh this way:

"Whatever weakens your reasoning, impairs the tenderness of your conscience, obscures your sense of God, or takes away your relish for spiritual things, in short – if anything increases the authority and the power of the flesh over the Spirit, that to you becomes sin however good it is in itself.”

One of the goals of the Christian life is the victory of the Spirit over the flesh and a change of life, which manifests in righteous living before God.

Although the struggle will be very real (which the Bible makes clear), Christians have assurance from God that He will bring them eventual success over the flesh.

Philippians 1
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. ​

 

[Utah]

Perfect=G5046 Be [SUP]G2071[/SUP] ye [SUP]G5210[/SUP] therefore [SUP]G3767[/SUP] perfect, [SUP]G5046[/SUP] even [SUP]G5618[/SUP] as your [SUP]G5216[/SUP] Father [SUP]G3962[/SUP] which [SUP]G3588[/SUP] is in [SUP]G1722[/SUP] heaven [SUP]G3772[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] perfect. [SUP]G5046[/SUP]

1. brought to its end, finished
2. wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3. perfect
4. that which is perfect
5. consummate human integrity and virtue
6. 
   of men
   1. full grown, adult, of full age, mature

Ahhh, I see you left out Luke 6:36 -- merciful.

#4 -- that which is perfect. Only Jesus is perfect. In Him, we are made perfect, but we are not perfect in and of ourselves. Tell us, do you believe you are perfect in and of yourself?

 

[Yeraza_Bats]

Paul wrote this...

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Why don't you believe that?

Why uphold this notion of " when you do get weak and fall into sin." The Bible doesn't say that anywhere. It just sounds like an excuse to keep sinning every now and then.

We may err in judgement and commit a sin of ignorance, yet that is different to willful sin. Willful sin is out of the question.

I can definitely testify that I have been saved from temptation. But I also cannot tell you that I have always resisted all temptation either. I do believe that when we sin, we do commit transgression against God. I do believe that we cannot do such a thing anymore. But I also know that we will do it, at some point, and we will rely on Gods grace to save us from it. I struggle everyday with sin, and when I give in its my fault. I am generally good at not giving in, it is rare that I do. But even still, we do slip up, when we do does that mean we are now unforgiven? Im not saying we must sin and cant help it, and I agree that those who continue to sin are not saved. But think about the stories in the bible, Peter denied Christ 3 times. Do you believe he was not saved? And in 1 Cor 10:10 we are told that grumbling is a sin. Have you never once grumbled since coming to Christ?

My argument is not that sin is unavoidable therefore we can be saved while we sin. Im merely bringing up times that we fail, and rely on the mercy of God to save us.

 

[Blain]

I truly hope no one here believes they are perfect or without sin because that kind of pride and arrogance is just silly. i know someone else who was prideful and arrogant can anyone guess who he is?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Ahhh, I see you left out Luke 6:36 -- merciful.

#4 -- that which is perfect. Only Jesus is perfect. In Him, we are made perfect, but we are not perfect in and of ourselves. Tell us, do you believe you are perfect in and of yourself?

I didn't leave anything out, you said perfect in Matthew 5:48 means merciful, I just showed you it does not.

And merciful means merciful in Luke 6:36 not "perfect"[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]Luk 6:36
[/TD]
[TD]Be ye therefore merciful, [SUP]G3629[/SUP] as your Father also is merciful. [SUP]G3629
[/SUP]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

1. merciful

 

[DesiredHaven]

I truly hope no one here believes they are perfect or without sin because that kind of pride and arrogance is just silly. i know someone else who was prideful and arrogant can anyone guess who he is?

That would be Satan to whom the LORD said, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

God could say that of Job. But Job seem to understand that if he said that (that I am perfect) of himself it would prove him perverse

Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.


Every post posted on sin, will include inside of it somewhere the temptation to answer for words not your own. Meaning they hate the words and shoot the messenger (everytime).

But its "as if" someone can prove that the messenger of the words sins that this will somehow immediately void those words or something, I dont get that, but you see that everytime this comes up. So its an easily reccognizable pattern.

Paul shows you can preach to others the truth of the doctrine (and gain the world) but lose ones soul and be a castaway not bring your own self under.

So being able to nail the messenger (on whether he continually practices sin or not) doesnt make the verses void simply because he does.

Folks do that.

I just like to come into a thread and watch it happen again and again, and most trolls know thats a good one to get things going in that direction.

 

[DesiredHaven]

I didn't leave anything out, you said perfect in Matthew 5:48 means merciful, I just showed you it does not.

And merciful means merciful in Luke 6:36 not "perfect"[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]Luk 6:36[/TD]
[TD]Be ye therefore merciful, [SUP]G3629[/SUP] as your Father also is merciful. [SUP]G3629
[/SUP][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

1. merciful

He likely means it in respects to Christ being made perfect in that he was being made a more merciful high priest in the same way. But being perfect and lacking no good thing is also shown in respects to patience having her perfect work and we know tribulation worketh patience.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

He likely means it in respects to Christ being made perfect in that he was being made a more merciful high priest in the same way. But being perfect and lacking no good thing is also shown in respects to patience having her perfect work and we know tribulation worketh patience.

His response was in me quoting Matthew 5:48....he said ...

Originally Posted by Utah Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart." [end quote]

I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)

 

[DesiredHaven]

His response was in me quoting Matthew 5:48....he said ...

Originally Posted by Utah Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart." [end quote]

I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)

None offense ever taken at you InSpiritintruth,

Jesus just didnt use himself in that but the Father and afterall it behooved him to be made in every way like his brethren so he could be a more merciful high preist but even in the same was made perfect.

I like what Utah said, I think it actually makes much more sense (no offense)

 

[DesiredHaven]

Here we go... lol

 

[Utah]

His response was in me quoting Matthew 5:48....he said ...

Originally Posted by Utah Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart." [end quote]

I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)

You've proved nothing. Perfect means merciful. Unless of course, merciful means perfect. Yeah, maybe that's it. Come to think of it, whenever I discuss perfection, I always use the word merciful. Like the 72' Dolphins and their merciful season. Yeah, that's it! Merciful means perfect. Gotcha! . . . Yawn.

 

[Utah]

None offense ever taken at you InSpiritintruth,

Jesus just didnt use himself in that but the Father and afterall it behooved him to be made in every way like his brethren so he could be a more merciful high preist but even in the same was made perfect.

I like what Utah said, I think it actually makes much more sense (no offense)

God bless you, my Lady. Peace be with you always.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

None offense ever taken at you InSpiritintruth,

Jesus just didnt use himself in that but the Father and afterall it behooved him to be made in every way like his brethren so he could be a more merciful high preist but even in the same was made perfect.

I like what Utah said, I think it actually makes much more sense (no offense)

Well, if making up your own definitions of what a word actually means, and misrepresenting what Jesus actually said in that verse makes "more sense" to you....then go for it. LOL!

 

[DesiredHaven]

God bless you, my Lady. Peace be with you always.

God bless you as well Utah.

However, I must add that I dont agree they are the same word, I do actually agree with InSpiritInTruth in that but the concept is sitting right there, and I can also see it as if almost exchangeable between the two elsewhere also.

Perfect and not lacking anything also pertains to one lacking patience also, and various things around the fruit of the Spirit, but it speaks of bearing fruits unto perfection also.

Peace to you too

 

[DesiredHaven]

Well, if making up your own definitions of what a word actually means, and misrepresenting what Jesus actually said in that verse makes "more sense" to you....then go for it. LOL!

No I see them interchanging a bit in that concept there and elsewhere.

May God richly bless you InSpiritInTruth!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You've proved nothing. Perfect means merciful. Unless of course, merciful means perfect. Yeah, maybe that's it. Come to think of it, whenever I discuss perfection, I always use the word merciful. Like the 72' Dolphins and their merciful season. Yeah, that's it! Merciful means perfect. Gotcha! . . . Yawn.

Your understanding is beyond my comprehension, but it seems to make more sense to some. But then again I know the world receives it's own.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Your understanding is beyond my comprehension, but it seems to make more sense to some. But then again I know the world receives it's own.

And there is the typical snottiness that follows that is supposedly of God (ofcourse!)

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

And there is the typical snottiness that follows that is supposedly of God (ofcourse!)

Your sweet talk has no effect on me.