You and Sin?
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Perfect=G5046 Be [SUP]G2071[/SUP] ye [SUP]G5210[/SUP] therefore [SUP]G3767[/SUP] perfect, [SUP]G5046[/SUP] even [SUP]G5618[/SUP] as your [SUP]G5216[/SUP] Father [SUP]G3962[/SUP] which [SUP]G3588[/SUP] is in [SUP]G1722[/SUP] heaven [SUP]G3772[/SUP] is [SUP]G2076[/SUP] perfect. [SUP]G5046[/SUP]
- brought to its end, finished
- wanting nothing necessary to completeness
- perfect
- that which is perfect
- consummate human integrity and virtue
of men- full grown, adult, of full age, mature
V
Nope, not at all. You misunderstand what Paul is saying in Romans 7.
Paul clearly says in chapter seven that there was something “in the members” of his body that produced difficulty in his Christian life and made him a prisoner of sin. He uses the term “the flesh” to identify this remnant of the old, dead man – a man we can nonetheless resurrect when our own inner desires, lusts, ambition, or reasoning overpowers the voice of the Spirit within us.
We cannot understand “flesh” as only that thing which leads to sin in one of the three realms in which we manifest it: Sex, Money, or Power. Paul uses ‘flesh” to describe the whole man, body, and soul, and reason. All our faculties are included. Everything within us, even when we are possessed by Christ, longs and strives after the flesh.” “Flesh” equates to all our hidden and not-so-hidden affections and desires that run contrary to God.
The manifestation, struggle, and consequences of the flesh could take up many books. In fact, they have. I think we all know what those consequences are, and certainly, despite the denials, Paul knew them as well. Romans 7:14-25 clearly evidences this. Galatians 5 is another chapter where Paul details, though not in that case personally, the conflict of the Spirit and the flesh. We are only so free from the flesh as we practice to be. So how do we practice to be, how do we overcome the flesh?
Three steps:
One of the goals of the Christian life is the victory of the Spirit over the flesh and a change of life, which manifests in righteous living before God.
Although the struggle will be very real (which the Bible makes clear), Christians have assurance from God that He will bring them eventual success over the flesh.
Paul clearly says in chapter seven that there was something “in the members” of his body that produced difficulty in his Christian life and made him a prisoner of sin. He uses the term “the flesh” to identify this remnant of the old, dead man – a man we can nonetheless resurrect when our own inner desires, lusts, ambition, or reasoning overpowers the voice of the Spirit within us.
We cannot understand “flesh” as only that thing which leads to sin in one of the three realms in which we manifest it: Sex, Money, or Power. Paul uses ‘flesh” to describe the whole man, body, and soul, and reason. All our faculties are included. Everything within us, even when we are possessed by Christ, longs and strives after the flesh.” “Flesh” equates to all our hidden and not-so-hidden affections and desires that run contrary to God.
The manifestation, struggle, and consequences of the flesh could take up many books. In fact, they have. I think we all know what those consequences are, and certainly, despite the denials, Paul knew them as well. Romans 7:14-25 clearly evidences this. Galatians 5 is another chapter where Paul details, though not in that case personally, the conflict of the Spirit and the flesh. We are only so free from the flesh as we practice to be. So how do we practice to be, how do we overcome the flesh?
Three steps:
- Acknowledge our sinful behavior before God
- Psalm 130:3, NASB: "If You, LORD, should mark iniquities, O Lord, who could stand?"
- 1 John 1:8, 10: "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us ... If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."
- Walk in the Spirit
- Galatians 2:20: "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me."
- Romans 13:12-14: " The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts."
- Starve the flesh
- 1 Timothy 6:11: "But flee from [sinful] things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness."
- 1 Corinthians 9:27: "I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."
- Ephesians 4:20-24: "But you did not learn Christ in this way, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth."
One of the goals of the Christian life is the victory of the Spirit over the flesh and a change of life, which manifests in righteous living before God.
Although the struggle will be very real (which the Bible makes clear), Christians have assurance from God that He will bring them eventual success over the flesh.
Philippians 1
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
I can definitely testify that I have been saved from temptation. But I also cannot tell you that I have always resisted all temptation either. I do believe that when we sin, we do commit transgression against God. I do believe that we cannot do such a thing anymore. But I also know that we will do it, at some point, and we will rely on Gods grace to save us from it. I struggle everyday with sin, and when I give in its my fault. I am generally good at not giving in, it is rare that I do. But even still, we do slip up, when we do does that mean we are now unforgiven? Im not saying we must sin and cant help it, and I agree that those who continue to sin are not saved. But think about the stories in the bible, Peter denied Christ 3 times. Do you believe he was not saved? And in 1 Cor 10:10 we are told that grumbling is a sin. Have you never once grumbled since coming to Christ?
My argument is not that sin is unavoidable therefore we can be saved while we sin. Im merely bringing up times that we fail, and rely on the mercy of God to save us.
My argument is not that sin is unavoidable therefore we can be saved while we sin. Im merely bringing up times that we fail, and rely on the mercy of God to save us.
I didn't leave anything out, you said perfect in Matthew 5:48 means merciful, I just showed you it does not.
And merciful means merciful in Luke 6:36 not "perfect"[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]Luk 6:36
[/TD]
[TD]Be ye therefore merciful, [SUP]G3629[/SUP] as your Father also is merciful. [SUP]G3629
[/SUP]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. merciful
And merciful means merciful in Luke 6:36 not "perfect"[TABLE="class: bibleTable"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]Luk 6:36
[/TD]
[TD]Be ye therefore merciful, [SUP]G3629[/SUP] as your Father also is merciful. [SUP]G3629
[/SUP]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
1. merciful
D
That would be Satan to whom the LORD said, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
God could say that of Job. But Job seem to understand that if he said that (that I am perfect) of himself it would prove him perverse
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Every post posted on sin, will include inside of it somewhere the temptation to answer for words not your own. Meaning they hate the words and shoot the messenger (everytime).
But its "as if" someone can prove that the messenger of the words sins that this will somehow immediately void those words or something, I dont get that, but you see that everytime this comes up. So its an easily reccognizable pattern.
Paul shows you can preach to others the truth of the doctrine (and gain the world) but lose ones soul and be a castaway not bring your own self under.
So being able to nail the messenger (on whether he continually practices sin or not) doesnt make the verses void simply because he does.
Folks do that.
I just like to come into a thread and watch it happen again and again, and most trolls know thats a good one to get things going in that direction.
God could say that of Job. But Job seem to understand that if he said that (that I am perfect) of himself it would prove him perverse
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Every post posted on sin, will include inside of it somewhere the temptation to answer for words not your own. Meaning they hate the words and shoot the messenger (everytime).
But its "as if" someone can prove that the messenger of the words sins that this will somehow immediately void those words or something, I dont get that, but you see that everytime this comes up. So its an easily reccognizable pattern.
Paul shows you can preach to others the truth of the doctrine (and gain the world) but lose ones soul and be a castaway not bring your own self under.
So being able to nail the messenger (on whether he continually practices sin or not) doesnt make the verses void simply because he does.
Folks do that.
I just like to come into a thread and watch it happen again and again, and most trolls know thats a good one to get things going in that direction.
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His response was in me quoting Matthew 5:48....he said ...
Originally Posted by Utah
Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart." [end quote]
I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)
I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)
D
His response was in me quoting Matthew 5:48....he said ...
Originally Posted by Utah
Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart." [end quote]
I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)
I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)
Jesus just didnt use himself in that but the Father and afterall it behooved him to be made in every way like his brethren so he could be a more merciful high preist but even in the same was made perfect.
I like what Utah said, I think it actually makes much more sense (no offense)
His response was in me quoting Matthew 5:48....he said ...
Originally Posted by Utah
Perfect, for the millionth time here, means merciful. What is merciful? Purity of heart." [end quote]
I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)
I proved that the word perfect in Matthew 5:48 does not mean merciful, so it does not matter what you think he "likely means". (no offence)
D
God bless you, my Lady. Peace be with you always. 
However, I must add that I dont agree they are the same word, I do actually agree with InSpiritInTruth in that but the concept is sitting right there, and I can also see it as if almost exchangeable between the two elsewhere also.
Perfect and not lacking anything also pertains to one lacking patience also, and various things around the fruit of the Spirit, but it speaks of bearing fruits unto perfection also.
Peace to you too