LEGALSIM...how do you know if your a "legalist"

[JaumeJ]

You are molding the teachings to fit your own words. Pleas do not do this. It is altering the Word of God.



Eph 2:1
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Eph 2:3
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph 2:4
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

Yes the obedience of faith and love....not legalism, thats hypocrisy

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

Anyone who believes the "simplicity" of Christ will hear His words and do them.If a person does not do this, he is living by bread alone.

Right ...they will obey with real obedience of faith and love...not pretend to obey through legalism.

 

[Mitspa]

You are molding the teachings to fit your own words. Pleas do not do this. It is altering the Word of God.

What part of simplicity goes against what you are trying to teach?

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[JaumeJ]

Please show in scripture the simplicity of Christ. I do know He tells us to learn of Him (not pharisees) for his burden is light and His yoke is easy. Nonetheless a yoke denotes work to be done. That work, is learning from Jesus Christ. It is not a heavey burden, but it is a yoke. He did not hide this truth from any.

I am afraid your "simplicity of Christ teaching is a fairy tale, not of the Word.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If I look at the church denominations in South Africa today I see legalism. Man made rules.

To try and keep God's commandments doesn't make me legalistic but the commandments is like this characteristics of the God we serve. In my house there are rules, my kids must obey the rules for as long as they are in my house but it is not as if I kick them out if they brake the rules. The same with God, He also have His rules and if we love Him we will try to stick to them and make our Father happy. The guidelines are there to protect us from the evil world we life in.

 

[Mitspa]

If I look at the church denominations in South Africa today I see legalism. Man made rules.

To try and keep God's commandments doesn't make me legalistic but the commandments is like this characteristics of the God we serve. In my house there are rules, my kids must obey the rules for as long as they are in my house but it is not as if I kick them out if they brake the rules. The same with God, He also have His rules and if we love Him we will try to stick to them and make our Father happy. The guidelines are there to protect us from the evil world we life in.

Right but legalism is not obedience ...that the point! Obedience is faith and love that's the testimony of the New Testament.

 

[JaumeJ]

If you believe in your heart what you have said here, then why in blazes are you arguing with everyone else who believes they should oby God's rules?

Right but legalism is not obedience ...that the point! Obedience is faith and love that's the testimony of the New Testament.

 

[Mitspa]

Please show in scripture the simplicity of Christ. I do know He tells us to learn of Him (not pharisees) for his burden is light and His yoke is easy. Nonetheless a yoke denotes work to be done. That work, is learning from Jesus Christ. It is not a heavey burden, but it is a yoke. He did not hide this truth from any.

I am afraid your "simplicity of Christ teaching is a fairy tale, not of the Word.

Well lets see what Paul says....

2Co 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

 

[Mitspa]

If you believe in your heart what you have said here, then why in blazes are you arguing with everyone else who believes they should oby God's rules?

Because many are deceived by satan into thinking they are under the "letter" ...legalism and that's obedience when its clearly not, its hypocrisy and false doctrine.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Right but legalism is not obedience ...that the point! Obedience is faith and love that's the testimony of the New Testament.

Mitspa my brother in Christ, legalism is the Pharisees-syndrome, where you talk the talk but do something else. They (Pharisees) were also legalistic in keeping the Talmud my friend. Every-time Yeshua took them on they were defending the Talmud or being hypocrites (in reprimanding Him while they are not keeping the Torah). If you can give me one instance where Yeshua didn't keep the Torah I will gladly turn away from "the law" but until then we must follow Him as our example and saviour and then we will try to keep the law. Not because we are legalistic bit because our King did it.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitspa my brother in Christ, legalism is the Pharisees-syndrome, where you talk the talk but do something else. They (Pharisees) were also legalistic in keeping the Talmud my friend. Every-time Yeshua took them on they were defending the Talmud or being hypocrites (in reprimanding Him while they are not keeping the Torah). If you can give me one instance where Yeshua didn't keep the Torah I will gladly turn away from "the law" but until then we must follow Him as our example and saviour and then we will try to keep the law. Not because we are legalistic bit because our King did it.

Friend this is not a discussion about the Talmud...which was written after the fall of Temple..(if Im not wrong?) This is about the written code of the law of Moses, which is made very evident in the scriptures themselves.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[JaumeJ]

Do you ask others here if they feel they are under the law? I am not under the law, but I know our Father is not crazy when He tells us to honor our parents, to have no other God before us, not to lust, not to lie or stea, to return our enemy's goods should we come across them, not to sow two kinds of seed (the Gospel) in the same field (mankind), and so much more. Are you suggesting we ignore the wisdom of His law?

Firs, let me ask you. Have you studied the law? Do you know what Jesus Christ teaches concerning the law? Are you aware any law that does not co0ntain mercy is not valid for the believer? If we believe Jesus Christ we will show mercy just as He shows mercy.

Are you aware we cannot, nor should we attempt to follow the laaws concerning the Temple and Sacrifice? We are the living stones of the Tmple with Christ as the Chief and the Head stone. Cornerstone.

No one follows the dietary laws since Christ made all things clean in two different teachings in the New Testament.

We are only to attempt to do the laws on morality, knowing we are not perfect, that Jesus was perfect for us, but while God is perfecting us, we are responsible to DO works deserving of our heavenly reward as we attempt to behave ourselves. This is by no means being under the letter of the law as you put it.

Grace is not without cause for our being responsible in living therein. Do not cheapen grace by coverin it with sugar. (Thanks D.)

Because many are deceived by satan into thinking they are under the "letter" ...legalism and that's obedience when its clearly not, its hypocrisy and false doctrine.

 

[Mitspa]

Do you ask others here if they feel they are under the law? I am not under the law, but I know our Father is not crazy when He tells us to honor our parents, to have no other God before us, not to lust, not to lie or stea, to return our enemy's goods should we come across them, not to sow two kinds of seed (the Gospel) in the same field (mankind), and so much more. Are you suggesting we ignore the wisdom of His law?

Firs, let me ask you. Have you studied the law? Do you know what Jesus Christ teaches concerning the law? Are you aware any law that does not co0ntain mercy is not valid for the believer? If we believe Jesus Christ we will show mercy just as He shows mercy.

Are you aware we cannot, nor should we attempt to follow the laaws concerning the Temple and Sacrifice? We are the living stones of the Tmple with Christ as the Chief and the Head stone. Cornerstone.

No one follows the dietary laws since Christ made all things clean in two different teachings in the New Testament.

We are only to attempt to do the laws on morality, knowing we are not perfect, that Jesus was perfect for us, but while God is perfecting us, we are responsible to DO works deserving of our heavenly reward as we attempt to behave ourselves. This is by no means being under the letter of the law as you put it.

Grace is not without cause for our being responsible in living therein. Do not cheapen grace by coverin it with sugar. (Thanks D.)

What I hope you see is that Gods commandment is for you to love through the power of His Spirit within you...that that is the true law of God, "written in your heart" and that your "keeping"..."breaking" of the written code of moses law, is really only your attempt to justify your own flesh.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Friend this is not a discussion about the Talmud...which was written after the fall of Temple..(if Im not wrong?) This is about the written code of the law of Moses, which is made very evident in the scriptures themselves.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Read a bit further:

Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.



Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


So Paul is contradicting himself? What is the law of Moses and what is the law of God?

 

[Mitspa]

Read a bit further:

Rom 7:12
Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.



Rom 7:22
For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

Rom 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.


So Paul is contradicting himself? What is the law of Moses and what is the law of God?

Sure...that's why we serve God by the Spirit and not by the "letter" by faith and love, not legalism....that's the whole point of this thread.

 

[JaumeJ]

The commandments of love are in the Law, repeated by our Lord, and they implicitely shout that we are to love each other. Please read and learn the wisdom of all of the Wordnot just what is repeated in teh New Testament.

What I hope you see is that Gods commandment is for you to love through the power of His Spirit within you...that that is the true law of God, "written in your heart" and that your "keeping"..."breaking" of the written code of moses law, is really only your attempt to justify your own flesh.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Sure...that's why we serve God by the Spirit and not by the "letter" by faith and love, not legalism....that's the whole point of this thread.

Like I explained to you before, the Torah is the character of God. How can you be in relationship with somebody but you don't respect their boundaries? The law was never given to us to safe us but a guideline to please God (Hosea 6:6) but God longs for a relationship with us.

 

[Mitspa]

The commandments of love are in the Law, repeated by our Lord, and they implicitely shout that we are to love each other. Please read and learn the wisdom of all of the Wordnot just what is repeated in teh New Testament.

Yes He magnified the law to those under the law, before His Cross and the New Testament was written in His Blood. And the New Testament teaches us the purpose of the law was to make all guilty and bring them to His Cross to be justified by faith. So now the believer has been delivered from the "legalism" of the law that we might serve God through the Spirit...faith and love. And God has given us His Spirit "the law written upon our heart" that we might love and fulfill every commandment of God in this one word.

 

[Mitspa]

Like I explained to you before, the Torah is the character of God. How can you be in relationship with somebody but you don't respect their boundaries? The law was never given to us to safe us but a guideline to please God (Hosea 6:6) but God longs for a relationship with us.

Well I have the New Testament written in the Blood of Jesus Christ...and it is the truth of God.

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. 7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[Mitspa]

Let me try to explain it this way to some....
If I don't steal because Gods Spirit has caused me to love and in that love I look to give and not take...
But someone under the law is trying to justify themselves by not stealing, yet in their heart they covet what others have?
and they don't love.....Who is God pleased with?