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K
I did not say it should come naturally not to sin, as to what I said is that it should not have to try to be good.
The difference here is Christ within us to mold us and guide us into righteousness. The Lord is not going to make this process difficult or impossible to do, for with Him nothing is impossible. If a true born again believer gives their total faith and trust to the Lord, the Spirit will easily win out over the flesh.
There are things in my own life I did not realize changed at doing tell others pointed it out to me. I here His direction everyday, and when I have a question on a subject I go to prayer to Him and ask. He always answers me with His word, as He directs my path to the scriptures to answer my question.
Sure at the beginning of a believers life the Spirit will war against the flesh, as the molding by Christ has just begun. But Christ will eventually mold us to have control over sins, and make it easy to walk in righteousness. So you see from my point of view the trying should not be hard as the Lord is the one doing the working in us, and not us ourselves.
D
Agreed. I shouldnt have agreed with him on that one so quickly. I do know godliness is profitable and I had earlier quoted denying all ungodliness , its not something I over looked, I was looking for something agreeable somewhere to get out of this thread so I was fine with whatever ounce of agreement I could find
P
Eph 2;14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Col 2;13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Ordinances>legalism
Col 2;13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Ordinances>legalism
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D
Yeah, speaks of the commandments contained in the ordinaces
Ephes 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Of carnal ordinances here (in respects to meats and drinks) and divers washings which were imposed
Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Grace (not meats) establish the heart
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
As Jesus speaks to what entereth not into his heart (verses belly)
Mark 6:19 Because it entereth not into his heart,but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Took the handwriting of the ordinances out of the way on the cross
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And these as it relates to the carnal ordinances of meats and drinks (see verse 2:16)
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which again, shows the same thing
Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Which he said were a shadow of things to come.
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Ephes 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Of carnal ordinances here (in respects to meats and drinks) and divers washings which were imposed
Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Grace (not meats) establish the heart
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
As Jesus speaks to what entereth not into his heart (verses belly)
Mark 6:19 Because it entereth not into his heart,but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
Took the handwriting of the ordinances out of the way on the cross
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
And these as it relates to the carnal ordinances of meats and drinks (see verse 2:16)
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which again, shows the same thing
Heb 9:10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.
Which he said were a shadow of things to come.
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
S
Are you literally trying to say that if we stay away from the works of the flesh shown in 5:19, that we are now legalistic?
Are you literally saying that a Believer can do those things and still claim to be in the Spirit?
The Lord rebuke you and your encouragement of wickedness.
You turn the Gospel of Grace into an excuse to continue sinning!
Are you literally saying that a Believer can do those things and still claim to be in the Spirit?
The Lord rebuke you and your encouragement of wickedness.
You turn the Gospel of Grace into an excuse to continue sinning!
D
You know you're a legalist if: 1. you don't believe in "once saved, always saved".
2. you criticize, judge, and condemn other people for things they do wrong, or things you think are wrong.
3. you have a hard time forgiving people who have wronged you, or who said or did things that were offensive to you.
4.you think that our righteousness depends on how obedient we are to the rules and the law.
5. You think God should only forgive people who are guilty of minor sins but that God is wrong for being forgiving of people who you feel are the worst of the worst like murderers, rapists, child abusers etc.You want such people to burn in hell.
6. You compare yourself with others and you think that because somebody else is a worse sinner than you means that you are more righteous than they are.
7. You're a snitch. Or, as the bible puts it, you "go about as a talebearer."
The work of the spirit is to believe in Jesus and depend only upon Him for our Salvation. The works of the flesh are when we depend upon our own righteous ability to do good and be good and to somehow earn our Salvation by good works.
Nobody is more righteous than anybody else regardless of what kind of good works they perform. Jesus automatically imputes righteousness upon us when we receive Him and believe in Him, regardless of what kinds of sins we are guilty of or how evil we were before receiving Him.
2. you criticize, judge, and condemn other people for things they do wrong, or things you think are wrong.
3. you have a hard time forgiving people who have wronged you, or who said or did things that were offensive to you.
4.you think that our righteousness depends on how obedient we are to the rules and the law.
5. You think God should only forgive people who are guilty of minor sins but that God is wrong for being forgiving of people who you feel are the worst of the worst like murderers, rapists, child abusers etc.You want such people to burn in hell.
6. You compare yourself with others and you think that because somebody else is a worse sinner than you means that you are more righteous than they are.
7. You're a snitch. Or, as the bible puts it, you "go about as a talebearer."
The work of the spirit is to believe in Jesus and depend only upon Him for our Salvation. The works of the flesh are when we depend upon our own righteous ability to do good and be good and to somehow earn our Salvation by good works.
Nobody is more righteous than anybody else regardless of what kind of good works they perform. Jesus automatically imputes righteousness upon us when we receive Him and believe in Him, regardless of what kinds of sins we are guilty of or how evil we were before receiving Him.
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.I looked back. I apologise, you actually said it should come automatically to obey(not sin). If you think there is a great difference between the two words, I apologise. Paul does not state at the beginning of a believers life the spirit will war against the flesh, they are your words, not his.
You still have not told me if you obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. In your view do you sin if you do not obey them all? Or do you believe some are not as important as others to keep, and it is not actual sin if you fail to keep those. Only from what you write, it appears you believe you are automatically living as God requires you to, so I am puzzled, if this is the case why you do not confirm you perfectly obey all of Christ's commands.
The true power of sin is the penalty attached to the law if you break it. Therefore, if you say a person must cease from sin in order not to have their right standing with God threatened, you are leaving sins power over them.
Also, in truth you are telling them if they do not observe the law as a Christian their right standing with God is in jeapordy. So in reality you must be preaching a righteousness before God of observing the law. That is the subtle deception of what so many write. It is not just you, most ministers preach the same thing.
The truth is, if a Christian has a righteousness before God apart from the law, they have a righteousness before God apart from sin in their life. In order to understand why that does not give the convert a licence to sin, you have to understand what it means to be born again of the Spirit.
It is not possible, to have a righteousness before God apart from the law and at the same time for sin to be able to condemn a born again Christian by taking away their right standing before God
You still have not told me if you obey all of Christ's literal commands in the Gospels. In your view do you sin if you do not obey them all? Or do you believe some are not as important as others to keep, and it is not actual sin if you fail to keep those. Only from what you write, it appears you believe you are automatically living as God requires you to, so I am puzzled, if this is the case why you do not confirm you perfectly obey all of Christ's commands.
The true power of sin is the penalty attached to the law if you break it. Therefore, if you say a person must cease from sin in order not to have their right standing with God threatened, you are leaving sins power over them.
Also, in truth you are telling them if they do not observe the law as a Christian their right standing with God is in jeapordy. So in reality you must be preaching a righteousness before God of observing the law. That is the subtle deception of what so many write. It is not just you, most ministers preach the same thing.
The truth is, if a Christian has a righteousness before God apart from the law, they have a righteousness before God apart from sin in their life. In order to understand why that does not give the convert a licence to sin, you have to understand what it means to be born again of the Spirit.
It is not possible, to have a righteousness before God apart from the law and at the same time for sin to be able to condemn a born again Christian by taking away their right standing before God
M
Do you think you overcome the flesh, by the flesh or by the Spirit? And what is always evident in those who tech legalism is these works of the flesh....you know why? Because legalist are in the flesh!
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
And they made that same charge against Paul, because they did not understand how faith and love is true godliness.
Not legalism!
Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
And they made that same charge against Paul, because they did not understand how faith and love is true godliness.
Not legalism!
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Look the truth might upset you? But its still the truth!
Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Self-righteousness is legalism.
Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Self-righteousness is legalism.