Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[fredjames]

You have always been respectful and nice in your replies, gotime. When I first saw your posts, a few years ago I would get really frustrated and point out all the errors that I thought I saw in them.

Now, I realize, I've just had the one contention with most of your posts. And that is, coming to the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't cause us to work at the law like you say it does. Coming to the Lord causes us to rest from our works of the law. We are dead to the law so that we might live to God. If we attempt to go back to working at the law we fall from grace and are no longer living unto God.

Even though the law is done away, dead, abolished, in CHRISTIANS who have come to Christ, this doesn't cause us to break any of the law. It causes us to have fruit grown in our lives. It is the only way fruit is grown and it is only by this fruit that the law is kept.

So if you really want to keep the law then you will abandon your work at it and your understanding of it and you will come to Christ and He will give you understanding and rest from your work. He doesn't give us rest from some of it. He gives us rest from all of it. Without the Lord Jesus Christ we can do nothing.

That's about the best I can do. I know it probably doesn't make sense to you. I know it will be a matter of contention and debate between us. See Acts 15...

Dear gotime, i am not asking you to choose any man's side but the New Covenant and for reference the Old, as it is written and taught in the first place and have continued in them and testimonies in accordance to them only. Either we are for CHRIST or against. Whether we have through the HOLY SPIRIT the rhema/doctrine knowledge spirit of CHRIST of the written Covenant or we have the very close but twisted by satan's deception over the church years as they have come and gone, 'men created' rhema/doctrine knowledge spirit of anti-CHRIST.

i know you and others have ears, 'To him then, let him listen, sound doctrine knowledge of the HOLY SPIRIT'.

God made two Covenant with HIS people Israel and Gentiles got to eat the crumbs from it, so that they may grow under the given Covenant prior to their times and become like the Jews as 'one', when HE redeemed them both times from slavery.

First time through Moses SPIRIT/carnal-man, liberated them from the 'physical realm enemies', Egypt and other pagan strong nations. and gave them now in their freedom, HIS Covenant in order to live by when HE is away and providing reputable and non reputable 'official servants' to teach, remind and stir up memory of the redeemed people all that is consist in GOD'S Covenant are 'performed' and 'practiced' and be 'safe' from their enemies hence forth. Well we know these did not work well on those who are bound in carnal/flesh 'passions' and 'desires' and sin and death. And that is why GOD provided in HIS Covenant 'laws' of 'purification' and 'sacrifices'. And sin and death were the rulers of this world and aided by satan's deception.

Second time through CHRIST, SPIRIT/spirit-man, liberated them from the 'spiritual realm enemies', sin and death and satan of this world (which JESUS rejected his offer), and now gave them HIS New Covenant in order to live by while HE is away, same as HE did when HE gave the 'first Covenant'.

Then we are the redeemed people under the given New Covenant and HE is away and the HOLY SPIRIT and as CHRIST is the 'Helper' to all of them written and also Teacher to all of them New and Old and placed spiritual taught to all of them servants, in order to 'abide' in all of them and bear fruits and also their fruits(church) must 'abide'.

As it is written regarding HIS Covenant made with HIS redeemed people, that;

"Without knowledge My people 'perish'."

Please dear 'gotime', do not give in to 'vain' persuades(like Eve did, from the serpent who 'twisted' GOD's Word/Covenant given to them and went away for a while, until HE returns), that 'anti' the 'author and finisher of our faith', CHRIST's written and given New Covenant, where the 'martyr' died and shed blood, just to translate and give them onto the 'poor' hands, in order to be 'at their hand' and when they have, 'freely freely received, they would freely freely give', as a 'love of GOD birthday gift' to others. So that they too may be 'saved' and they may 'save' others and 'abiding' according to all of them 'written and given' as HIS New Covenant and together 'find GOD's place of rest' in Heaven.

As it is written;

"HE is the same yesterday, today and forever, Amen."

"Heaven and earth shall pass away but all that I have spoken will stand forever, Amen."

Be blesses in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Mariauk]

Jess said if you love me keep my commandment.
James 2
*If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
10*For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one*point, he is guilty of all.
12*So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13*For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14*What*doth it*profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
17*Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18*Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19*Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20*But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21*Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22*Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
24*Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
26*For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Doers of the law is justified not part of the law but all the ten commandment ncluding the keeping of the 7th day sabbath which is Saturday not Sunday

 

[Mariauk]

Man tradition says the law is done away with which is absolute error it was the ceremonial law that was done away at the cross not the ten commandment because Jesus said that the new covenant of his death on the cross is to comfirm the ten commandment by writing it in our hearts and jesus also said I have not come to DESTROY the law and the bible clearly says in mathew 5 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Rome has tampered with God's law changing it from Saturday to Sunday and now the whole Christian world bow down to Rome instead of Jesus

 

[michael56]

Man tradition says the law is done away with which is absolute error it was the ceremonial law that was done away at the cross not the ten commandment because Jesus said that the new covenant of his death on the cross is to comfirm the ten commandment by writing it in our hearts and jesus also said I have not come to DESTROY the law and the bible clearly says in mathew 5 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Rome has tampered with God's law changing it from Saturday to Sunday and now the whole Christian world bow down to Rome instead of Jesus

Who has said all the law is done away with? The law comes in two parts. The law itself and the penalty attached to it for disobedience. The latter got removed, not the former

 

[RickyZ]

Who has said all the law is done away with? The law comes in two parts. The law itself and the penalty attached to it for disobedience. The latter got removed, not the former

Exactly! Why can people not wrap their heads around this concept?

 

[michael56]

Exactly! Why can people not wrap their heads around this concept?

I guess because it is ingrained into the human mind that you get what you earn, you get what you deserve. If you don't live up to the standard set you pay the price of failure. That is the way it is in the world, and people carry that into their Christian life.

 

[fredjames]

Lambs and sheep 'abiding' according to the written New Covenant of GOD through CHRIST and the HOLY SPIRIT, please 'do not' be 'deceived'.

First of all, with all due respect to them in their 'ignorance' and wanting to help them to get into their 'heart harden' doctrine of men, they continue to quote also in 'defense' from the Spiritual 'law' of the New Covenant of Apostle Paul who mentioned the word 'law', and 'parading' together in them.

Which 'law' was he referring to the church?

i already replied about the 'law' he was referring to, for the church not be 'bound' to once again, which once he himself was 'bound' to, studied them the 'Torah' and was a 'top student to it's written 'laws', being under the 'tutor' of the best teacher in Israel, Gamaliel and they were practicing Pharisees.

The Galatians church were 'bewitched' by a Jew in their 'absents' introduced the 'laws' of the written 'Torah' of the Old Covenant and encouraged them to be 'circumcised' according to them given Moses.

Even Apostle Peter spoke in his epistle, about Paul's 'teachings'. He himself acknowledge Apostle Paul as a 'fellow minister' in the 'Word' like them and his 'teachings' are difficult to understand and some have taken his teachings and 'twisted' them.

The New Covenant of CHRIST testifies clearly by the 'Help' of the HOLY SPIRIT, all that is written and about all the 'ignorant imposters' amongst. The HOLY SPIRIT is still in charge to all of them and a help in 'spiritual understanding' to all of them, even till today, given and remain still in us. So that GOD's New Covenant lambs and sheep remain in them as well, understand them and be 'rooted' to them, 'as it is written' and 'understood whole', not 'pick' and 'choose' and live in 'deception' and later be counted as, 'workers of lawlessness', by our LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Actually i am not the 'legalist' here, as i am 'accused' falsely, because the written New Covenant 'context' and 'content' i have been 'taught' like others, proves the 'legalism', as GOD's 'order' already is, given to HIS Christian people in order to 'abide' in all of them and 'bear fruits' and their fruits must 'abide'.

Thank you and be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[royalscot]

You have made a fundemental mistake. The basis of sin is taking what you want to the hurt or harm or another. It is the short cut, the putting of desire above respect and need. In simple terms integrity, speaking the truth, not stealing, honoring marriage, not murdering etc. Now you could call these principles law or you could call them how you love and respect others.

If you break these principles you no longer have love or never did. The principle of salvation and the kingdom is to build a kingdom of people who love from the heart, and walk in the Holy Spirit. Your opposition and continual denial of morality suggests to me condemnation of sin on your conscience. The Lord convicts not by rules but by telling you and showing you the hurt and harm you have brought to others, so you learn repentance, forgiveness and walk in love.

Your language seems to want to deny these basic principles of life and relationships. Or are you now claiming you walk without sin, you do not fail because there is nothing left to say you fail. The problem with this position is it is insane, psychopathic and without care, which is the exact opposite of love which the Lord brings.

What you end up with is a happy bunch of sinners who continue sinning while claiming they know the Lord. You may as well claim the Lord does not exist and you can do whatever you like......

The problem is as the apostles wrote
"Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." col 3:5
"But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” rev 21:8

The core of the faith is righteousness, purity, perfection - as Jesus said "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" matt 5:48

Some in the faith movement have called a spirit of religion, which emphasis legalism. The truth is you stand against John the Baptist "Repent and believe for the Kingdom of God is here"
You stand against Jesus and the Apostles,
"Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus." Acts 3:19-20

Now I know of only one spirit who would talk against repentance, and it is not the Holy Spirit. This position is also not of Jesus or of christian tradition. So I call you to repentance, to confess your sins, for he is faithful and just and will forgive your sins if you believe on Jesus.

context context you did read acts 15 and you come back with this,
you talk about jesus under and old covenant
only if context proves your still in a old covenant. when you know the difference, please come back with context your in new covenant so acts 2 still your guide
grace a gift, ware did you get sin from.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.3

 

[Grandpa]

Dear gotime, i am not asking you to choose any man's side but the New Covenant and for reference the Old, as it is written and taught in the first place and have continued in them and testimonies in accordance to them only. Either we are for CHRIST or against. Whether we have through the HOLY SPIRIT the rhema/doctrine knowledge spirit of CHRIST of the written Covenant or we have the very close but twisted by satan's deception over the church years as they have come and gone, 'men created' rhema/doctrine knowledge spirit of anti-CHRIST.

i know you and others have ears, 'To him then, let him listen, sound doctrine knowledge of the HOLY SPIRIT'.

God made two Covenant with HIS people Israel and Gentiles got to eat the crumbs from it, so that they may grow under the given Covenant prior to their times and become like the Jews as 'one', when HE redeemed them both times from slavery.

First time through Moses SPIRIT/carnal-man, liberated them from the 'physical realm enemies', Egypt and other pagan strong nations. and gave them now in their freedom, HIS Covenant in order to live by when HE is away and providing reputable and non reputable 'official servants' to teach, remind and stir up memory of the redeemed people all that is consist in GOD'S Covenant are 'performed' and 'practiced' and be 'safe' from their enemies hence forth. Well we know these did not work well on those who are bound in carnal/flesh 'passions' and 'desires' and sin and death. And that is why GOD provided in HIS Covenant 'laws' of 'purification' and 'sacrifices'. And sin and death were the rulers of this world and aided by satan's deception.

Second time through CHRIST, SPIRIT/spirit-man, liberated them from the 'spiritual realm enemies', sin and death and satan of this world (which JESUS rejected his offer), and now gave them HIS New Covenant in order to live by while HE is away, same as HE did when HE gave the 'first Covenant'.

Then we are the redeemed people under the given New Covenant and HE is away and the HOLY SPIRIT and as CHRIST is the 'Helper' to all of them written and also Teacher to all of them New and Old and placed spiritual taught to all of them servants, in order to 'abide' in all of them and bear fruits and also their fruits(church) must 'abide'.

As it is written regarding HIS Covenant made with HIS redeemed people, that;

"Without knowledge My people 'perish'."

Please dear 'gotime', do not give in to 'vain' persuades(like Eve did, from the serpent who 'twisted' GOD's Word/Covenant given to them and went away for a while, until HE returns), that 'anti' the 'author and finisher of our faith', CHRIST's written and given New Covenant, where the 'martyr' died and shed blood, just to translate and give them onto the 'poor' hands, in order to be 'at their hand' and when they have, 'freely freely received, they would freely freely give', as a 'love of GOD birthday gift' to others. So that they too may be 'saved' and they may 'save' others and 'abiding' according to all of them 'written and given' as HIS New Covenant and together 'find GOD's place of rest' in Heaven.

As it is written;

"HE is the same yesterday, today and forever, Amen."

"Heaven and earth shall pass away but all that I have spoken will stand forever, Amen."

Be blesses in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

Lord Jesus Christ is not crumbs. And that is what we gentiles have. To provoke Israel to jealosy.

Now Israel attempts to teach the gentiles how to work at the law the way they do, thinking they have the keys to knowledge.

Unfortunately for this way of thinking, The Lord Jesus holds all the keys of Knowledge and Salvation. So in order to be saved and understand Righteousness, Israel has to come to Christ the same way as the gentiles.


Without knowledge my people perish. Where do you think they need to go to get that knowledge??? The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Whom the gentiles have recieved. I suppose you may be seeing a common theme.

 

[royalscot]

What are you talking about as walking in the Spirit, which is love, forgiveness, mercy, compassion, and so on is not the Mosaic laws that we are not under.
Those are the fruits of the Spirit that a born again believer will have. I don't know what you mean make up my mind, because I keep saying the same thing over and over again.
We are called to walk in the Spirit, and not walk in the flesh. Walking in flesh is a carnal mind that is still subject to the Mosaic laws as they still live in a sinful lifestyle and their punishment will come at the second death in the lake of fire. As well as those who are disobedient to the gospel message will find themselves at judgment at the second death.

If one puts their faith in something other than the Lord then yes they are sinning, so I did not contradict myself or say something that is unbiblical.


Yes there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. You can not drop the second half of the scripture off because a true born again faith based Christian will walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

again, ware did and how did your definition to what sin is, what law did you get it from. .
nor is law of moses in the new covenant to a gentile. (acts 15)
strange same old , when did i ask for a different answer to ure erring of defining scripture.
what am i talking about again, yet you continue in your blindness in condemnation.
how can you see a fruit in anyone, if your guide is judgement with the law, a law that was never given to you. now you looking at fruits of the spirit. yet the law hold you in condemnation. how do you answer anyone when you have erred with simple reading what the bible has said.

sinful....................... romans 8v1 and it makes you wonder what i am talking about.

 

[fredjames]

1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.3

Second, is that the 'context' of Apostle Paul according to Romans chapter 8, certainly not! Why don't you, with all due respect to you, in the first place by the help of the HOLY SPIRIT witness 'context', while you demand from others. What does Apostle Paul say in verse 12 and 13 to the church, about the 'possibility' of 'death' once again.

Regarding 'sin', Apostle John in his epistle speak about 'lawlessness', he says, 'lawlessness is sin'.

They were all given by the Apostles written in their Epistles to the 'liberated' church as Christians and not 'outsiders'.

And in Matthew 7;23, JESUS in the 'future' judgement will declare to Christians who boast have labored in HIS name, who claim to belong to HIM, by saying;

"I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of 'lawlessness'."

 

[fredjames]

Lord Jesus Christ is not crumbs. And that is what we gentiles have. To provoke Israel to jealosy.

Now Israel attempts to teach the gentiles how to work at the law the way they do, thinking they have the keys to knowledge.

Unfortunately for this way of thinking, The Lord Jesus holds all the keys of Knowledge and Salvation. So in order to be saved and understand Righteousness, Israel has to come to Christ the same way as the gentiles.


Without knowledge my people perish. Where do you think they need to go to get that knowledge??? The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Whom the gentiles have recieved. I suppose you may be seeing a common theme.

What did JESUS teach you from Matthew chapter 5 onwards?

 

[michael56]

What did JESUS teach you from Matthew chapter 5 onwards?

Love God and love your neighbour

 

[gotime]

You have always been respectful and nice in your replies, gotime. When I first saw your posts, a few years ago I would get really frustrated and point out all the errors that I thought I saw in them.

Now, I realize, I've just had the one contention with most of your posts. And that is, coming to the Lord Jesus Christ doesn't cause us to work at the law like you say it does. Coming to the Lord causes us to rest from our works of the law. We are dead to the law so that we might live to God. If we attempt to go back to working at the law we fall from grace and are no longer living unto God.

Even though the law is done away, dead, abolished, in CHRISTIANS who have come to Christ, this doesn't cause us to break any of the law. It causes us to have fruit grown in our lives. It is the only way fruit is grown and it is only by this fruit that the law is kept.

So if you really want to keep the law then you will abandon your work at it and your understanding of it and you will come to Christ and He will give you understanding and rest from your work. He doesn't give us rest from some of it. He gives us rest from all of it. Without the Lord Jesus Christ we can do nothing.

That's about the best I can do. I know it probably doesn't make sense to you. I know it will be a matter of contention and debate between us. See Acts 15...

Thanx for your reply,

you see this is my problem, what you have said is good. While I speak of the law I do not mean we are saved by it or through it.

I do not struggle to keep the law for that is foolishness and a denial of Jesus and His finished work on the cross.

Rather keeping the law is a fruit of resting in Christ by faith.

See this is my problem I at least for the most part agree with everything you just said. "I say most part because I have not gone over it with a fine tooth comb to be sure"

So how is it that I agree with what you have just said Yet you think I believe differently?

I think its our words that are tripping us up maybe.

you said "It is the only way fruit is grown and it is only by this fruit that the law is kept."

I agree fully the difference is I think this fruit also includes the Sabbath aspect of the law where as you do not. at least that is how I perceive it, correct me If I am wrong.

 

[fredjames]

Love God and love your neighbour

And so this is what HE says to 'yous' and others and me, at chapter 7;

"Everyone then who hears these (all) words/teachings of mine and does/practices them, are liken onto 'wise builder' .......................................... And everyone who hears these words/teachings of mine and do not do/practice them, are liken onto a 'foolish builder' ................................................."

 

[fredjames]

Lord Jesus Christ is not crumbs.

First of all please with all due respect to you, do not change my testimony, for i did not say that.

 

[Mitspa]

Second, is that the 'context' of Apostle Paul according to Romans chapter 8, certainly not! Why don't you, with all due respect to you, in the first place by the help of the HOLY SPIRIT witness 'context', while you demand from others. What does Apostle Paul say in verse 12 and 13 to the church, about the 'possibility' of 'death' once again.

Regarding 'sin', Apostle John in his epistle speak about 'lawlessness', he says, 'lawlessness is sin'.

They were all given by the Apostles written in their Epistles to the 'liberated' church as Christians and not 'outsiders'.

And in Matthew 7;23, JESUS in the 'future' judgement will declare to Christians who boast have labored in HIS name, who claim to belong to HIM, by saying;

"I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of 'lawlessness'."

That's those who claim to keep the law but really don't...even as they break the law into parts and they dishonor the law. So they neither keep the law of Moses nor the Law of Christ ...they are lawless!

 

[gotime]

Answers above

you said "How will you become righteous? Paul states our righteousness is faith from first to last, it doesn't change(Rom 1:17)"

I agree I believe that imputed righteousness is by faith and imparted righteousness is by that same faith. It is not faith then work your way its faith to faith.

you said "Agreed, but although we accept Christ as Lord of our life that does not mean we perfectly obey"

Not at first no we grow into obedience, But we do cease from willful sin at conversion.

you said "In Pentecostal terms, the Holy Spirit dwelling in you and Baptism of the Holy Spirit are two different things. I won't go into it here. But in every Pentecostal church I have been to they accept you are saved at the poinit of conversion, but the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate occurence"

I see two phases also, first the infilling of the Holy Spirit which brings the fruit of the Spirit a change of life. then there is the gifts of the Spirit which are for witnessing.

you said "That doesn't make sense. If you are given the faith to believe(it is a free gift) you are saved if you repent. To suggest you can go in and out of grace and under the law depending on if you have a certain standard of faith is something I have never heard of before. How much faith do you need, what is the standard to remain in grace and not be under the law? That isn't written in my bible"

You might have misunderstood me there, Faith/trust is based on the word of God. IF you know about the death of Jesus and what that means but do not know about the resurrection and what that means then you will have faith in one but not the other. Its, not about measure of faith but rather what your faith is hinged on. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God Rom 10:17.

you said "If you ask Christ into your life as Lord and Saviour the Holy Spirit immediately enters your life, it is automatic. The definition of a Christian is someone in whom the Holy Spirit resides. "

Not sure If I am reading you right here, so correct me if I have not. But I do not believe that we simply ask Christ into our lives and then sit back and bam its all done. We must cooperate with God. Yes when I by faith accept Jesus He starts working on me then and there, in fact the very fact that I came is proof that He has already been working on me.

But I must surrender, If God says go I must actually go, when God says stop I must actually stop. I still have free choice when the Spirit is in me. salvation is complete surrender to God at every moment and a willingness to act on whatever God convicts us of. otherwise I will grieve the Holy Spirit away.

I will address your last point in its own post.
hope this clears a few things up, blessings.

 

[Mitspa]

Lord Jesus Christ is not crumbs. And that is what we gentiles have. To provoke Israel to jealosy.

Now Israel attempts to teach the gentiles how to work at the law the way they do, thinking they have the keys to knowledge.

Unfortunately for this way of thinking, The Lord Jesus holds all the keys of Knowledge and Salvation. So in order to be saved and understand Righteousness, Israel has to come to Christ the same way as the gentiles.


Without knowledge my people perish. Where do you think they need to go to get that knowledge??? The Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Whom the gentiles have recieved. I suppose you may be seeing a common theme.

Its sad to see how some dishonor Christ ! They reject the law and they reject Him

 

[fredjames]

"thinking they have the keys to knowledge."

In the Gospel, JESUS said they do, and JESUS told HIS disciples, 'to learn from them, but do not do what they do'. In Matthew chapter 23, HE said, 'they have the key of knowledge, but they lock them up'.