Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[gotime]

I will just address this point, as your post is long and to address all the points individually would be very time consuming. You are wrong gotime, I know you are wrong from my own life, I am not talking ''simple theology here but from lifes experience.
When I responded to an altar call I had not read that to look at a woman with lust in my eye was sin, I only knew ''Thou shalt not commit adultery'' Bit if I looked at a woman with lust in my eye, I knew in my heart and mind I had sinned. I did not know what ''Thou shalt not covet'' entailed, but once I had become a Christian the full truth of that law was on my heart and mind. Everything changed the moment I became a Christian, it did not change once I had read the literal letter. I had been happy before I became a Christian, but I was not after. The burden of trying in effect to obey a law I had not literally read was huge, I could not do it. Once I had been alive before the law came to me, but once it did I died(I felt condemned) The commandment I believed would give me life(I would attain Heaven) if I obeyed it, instead brought death(condemnation) for I could not keep it. Sin used what was good and Holy to arouse all manner of concupiscence in me. I became a worse sinner.
I used to look back on my life before I made that decision to become a Christian, I had been happy then, just a normal child, but not afterwards. Because I only had half a covenant, the law God required me to keep had been written on my mind and placed on my heart, but I did not know my sins and lawless deeds would be remembered no more. The law reveals right and wrong, and it makes you conscious of your sin before God, that happened to me from the night I became a Christian. As it would to anyone who has had the law placed on their heart and written on their mind
I don't mean this unkindly, I am just being honest, but I cannot understand people saying they have to read the literal letter of the Ten Commandments to know how God wants them to live, I don't know of such a Christianity, it is not the Christianity I know(I am not saying I believe a person cannot be a Christian if they have that view)
Nor do I have to think to myself. ''I must obey the literal law'' to attain Heaven. The law God requires me to keep is within me, it always has been since the night I got saved, my conscience at sin, proves that to be the case

Paul says:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet:

He did not know sin except the letter had said:

Paul said:

Rom 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

The knowledge of sin comes through the law.


That is what God's word says and you yourself said:

"I only knew ''Thou shalt not commit adultery''

That law obeyed from the heart will cause you to know that it is sin to even look on a woman with lust without reading the exact words.

Jesus only opened it up to those who were simply obeying on the outside and not the inside. but those who have that same law written on the heart will obey from the heart thus your understanding without reading the law.

but the law Paul says is the knowledge of sin, so if your version of what sin is is different to the law which makes sin known then your version is incorrect. The Sabbath happens to be part of that law that brings the knowledge of sin. your conviction or lack thereof changes nothing.

 

[michael56]

You keep His commandments by faith and love...legalism is not keeping anything! Its breaking both the law of Moses and the law of Christ...its lawlessness ....


You cannot serve God by the written code of the law...that is what Paul is saying...he is also saying you must serve God in the spirit by the obedience of faith and love.

Kenneth believes Jesus only died on the cross to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, he only died for the sins committed before you get saved. I have to wonder, if that is the case, would the old covenant not be a better one to have than the new one? Then sacrifices for sin could be made. There is only one sacrifice under the new covenant, and many it sems reject it-apart from at the point of conversion

 

[Mitspa]

And that is why you do not understand the law, as you been taught wrong that there is not different parts.

1. The Mosaic Law is divided into three parts.
   1. Codex I - the moral code: the decalogue or ten commandments.
   2. Codex II - the ceremonial code: A complete and elaborate system of Christology and soteriology as portrayed via the tabernacle, Levitical priesthood, sabbaths, offerings, sacrifices, and feasts.
   3. Codex III - the social code: diet, hygiene, quarantine, taxation, laws of evidence, crime, land conservation, slavery, the poor, the military, and the economy.

Look ...the bible is the truth...not what you make-up.. That's heresy Kenneth!

Now what law is Paul speaking of here?

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[gotime]

The reason I bring up the Sabbath is because if the Sabbath was not part of the law we would pretty much agree. but the reality is it is part of the law that shows sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Did I say that? Im teaching true obedience by the spirit, not the letter.

But if your under the law, your already breaking the commandments...your the one teaching sin, not me!

No teaching true obedience by the Spirit will tell others that through love they would uphold the commandments to not steal, kill, lie, adultery, idolatry, and so on. That is what the true teaching of the Spirit is.

 

[Mitspa]

Kenneth believes Jesus only died on the cross to wipe the slate clean at the point of conversion, he only died for the sins committed before you get saved. I have to wonder, if that is the case, would the old covenant not be a better one to have than the new one? Then sacrifices for sin could be made. There is only one sacrifice under the new covenant, and many it sems reject it-apart from at the point of conversion

The problem is that they don't believe what the bible clearly says...

 

[gotime]

Look ...the bible is the truth...not what you make-up.. That's heresy Kenneth!

Now what law is Paul speaking of here?

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The law on stone only could do one thing, show us we were sinners so why was it glorious at all? have you thought about that?

but through the Spirit we are free from the condemnation of the law because we are changed and no longer break it.

 

[michael56]

Paul says:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Howbeit, I had not known sin, except through the law: for I had not known coveting, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet:

He did not know sin except the letter had said:

Paul said:

Rom 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

The knowledge of sin comes through the law.


That is what God's word says and you yourself said:

"I only knew ''Thou shalt not commit adultery''

That law obeyed from the heart will cause you to know that it is sin to even look on a woman with lust without reading the exact words.

Jesus only opened it up to those who were simply obeying on the outside and not the inside. but those who have that same law written on the heart will obey from the heart thus your understanding without reading the law.

but the law Paul says is the knowledge of sin, so if your version of what sin is is different to the law which makes sin known then your version is incorrect. The Sabbath happens to be part of that law that brings the knowledge of sin. your conviction or lack thereof changes nothing.

Paul was speaking in Rom 7:7-11 of when the law came to him. When did the law come to him, as a Pharisee, or as a Christian? Those verses are not applicable to the discussion. I can assure you, the knowledge of ''Thou shalt not commit adultery did not make me know it was wrong to look at a woman with lust in her eye. Christ did not believe it either or he would not have added to it.
I knew you would disagree with what I wrote, you have to with your views
God Bless

 

[Mitspa]

No teaching true obedience by the Spirit will tell others that through love they would uphold the commandments to not steal, kill, lie, adultery, idolatry, and so on. That is what the true teaching of the Spirit is.

Love is the
"spirit"...that is obedience ...legalism is not obedience that is the "letter"

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

 

[gotime]

The problem is that they don't believe what the bible clearly says...

right back at ya.

 

[gotime]

Paul was speaking in Rom 7:7-11 of when the law came to him. When did the law come to him, as a Pharisee, or as a Christian? Those verses are not applicable to the discussion. I can assure you, the knowledge of ''Thou shalt not commit adultery did not make me know it was wrong to look at a woman with lust in her eye. Christ did not believe it either or he would not have added to it.
I knew you would disagree with what I wrote, you have to with your views
God Bless

Blessings.

 

[Mitspa]

right back at ya.

Well prove it by the scriptures ...I can! and you cannot .

 

[kennethcadwell]

Look ...the bible is the truth...not what you make-up.. That's heresy Kenneth!

Now what law is Paul speaking of here?

2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

That is not heresy Mitspa for that is how the Jews have the law divided.
This codex comes from how they look at the law, and how it has its separate parts. The moral standard of the 10 commandments comes from Jewish teaching, and not from the Catholic or any other denominational church. Remember the law was given to the Jews, so we have to understand how they used and looked at the law and taught it.

 

[gotime]

Well prove it by the scriptures ...I can! and you cannot .

lol whatever you think mate.

 

[Mitspa]

The law on stone only could do one thing, show us we were sinners so why was it glorious at all? have you thought about that?

but through the Spirit we are free from the condemnation of the law because we are changed and no longer break it.

So whats you point as it relates to the question between me and Kenneth on what law Paul is speaking about?

The law is not broken into parts...thats a lie from the devil!

 

[michael56]

Love is the
"spirit"...that is obedience ...legalism is not obedience that is the "letter"

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Many are blinded to the truth, and many in their heart want a righteousness of their own before God. The latter are in the most trouble in my view

 

[Mitspa]

lol whatever you think mate.

No its what the bible clearly teaches!

and you will answer for what is evident.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith

 

[gotime]

So whats you point as it relates to the question between me and Kenneth on what law Paul is speaking about?

The law is not broken into parts...thats a lie from the devil!

I disagree the law is indeed broken up into different parts the Bible teaches that. but yet it is one covenant in this respect they are one.

as to the law which you quoted in Corinthians 3 it is clearly referring to the 10 commandments.

 

[gotime]

No its what the bible clearly teaches!

and you will answer for what is evident.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith

That's just it though, I don't think a man can be justified by the law. in Fact I know a man cannot be justified by the law.

 

[michael56]

No its what the bible clearly teaches!

and you will answer for what is evident.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith

For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, [SUP]15 [/SUP]because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression Rom 4:14&15