Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M

michael56

Banned
#921
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
#921
gotime said:
That same Paul said establish the law, don't make it void and that the law is fulfilled in those who walk by the spirit.

What you don't understand is obedience is not a bad thing. it is the fruit of conversion.
Click to expand...
Please Gotime, don't let yourself down by making such comments
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#922
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#922
michael56 said:
I have said we do not need to read the literal words of the ten commandments to know how God wants us to live, that is all. I have never stated the fourth commandment must be kept by observing a specific Saturday Sabbath. If the law is written on your mind and placed on your heart, there is nowhere to hide. It does not matter what any minister tells you, you know it!!

Again, I do not mean this unkindly, but as you know every saturday I attend my wife's church. There is a vacuum there to me. The fullness of the Holy Spirit is not present in understanding. I do not mean that unkindly, the people are very nice and courteous, and none wish to debate differences in doctrine. But when I mentioned in my wifes bible class the law God requires you to keep got transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts they all looked puzzled. The young minister said ''That's right'' and quickly changed the subject

I will repeat once again. If it is written on the mind and placed on the heart you must obey Saturday Sabbather you cannot be a Christian unless you have heartfelt conviction before God you are sinning by not observing it. You do yourself no credit by denying that fact
Click to expand...
If the law is written on your hear and mind in the sense you speak of then there is no such thing as ignorant sin because you should know better.

Thus all your sins would be done knowing it is sin is this not true?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#924
#924
gotime said:
James is telling us why we fall for sin, he is not suggesting we must or will. His point is you sin because you want to sin.

But those who die in Christ have put to death the man of sin.
Click to expand...

We do agree on some points, but the bible does show a difference between one who messes up from time to time and the actual willful deliberate sinner.

The willful deliberate sinner the bible speaks of is the one who believes His moral laws do not apply, and continue to live a sinful lifestyle without repentance/confession and no Godly sorrow for what they did.
A true born again believer if and when they do sin again will feel that Godly sorrow leading them to repent as Paul said.
John shows that he wishes that we would not sin, but he knows that we will which is why he goes on to say we have an advocate with the Father in our Lord Jesus Christ. So that when we do sin again if we confess it He will forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#925
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#925
kennethcadwell said:
We do agree on some points, but the bible does show a difference between one who messes up from time to time and the actual willful deliberate sinner.

The willful deliberate sinner the bible speaks of is the one who believes His moral laws do not apply, and continue to live a sinful lifestyle without repentance/confession and no Godly sorrow for what they did.
A true born again believer if and when they do sin again will feel that Godly sorrow leading them to repent as Paul said.
John shows that he wishes that we would not sin, but he knows that we will which is why he goes on to say we have an advocate with the Father in our Lord Jesus Christ. So that when we do sin again if we confess it He will forgive us and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.
Click to expand...
I agree to a point. wilful sin is different from ignorant sin or slip ups. I do not agree that we are resigned to always stuff up till Jesus returns.

by the way knowing that we will is not what it says. it says "if" not when. big difference.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#926
#926
gotime said:
If the law is written on your hear and mind in the sense you speak of then there is no such thing as ignorant sin because you should know better.

Thus all your sins would be done knowing it is sin is this not true?
Click to expand...

Do you know that when you are driving down the road, and you see a car with a flat tire on the side of the road and you do not stop to see if you can help them change it or take them somewhere. You have just sinned !!!
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#927
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#927
kennethcadwell said:
Do you know that when you are driving down the road, and you see a car with a flat tire on the side of the road and you do not stop to see if you can help them change it or take them somewhere. You have just sinned !!!
Click to expand...
Really? that is not always the case. If God himself has told you to be somewhere and to go now and not stop then it would be sin to stop and help.

Its not so clear cut is it. but aside from God telling you something that makes it impossible to stop you simply stop so what is your point?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#928
#928
gotime said:
honestly you guys are trying to tell me that obedience is legalism. Don't obey cause that is works and that is bad. that is what I am hearing.

I guess Jesus was a legalist then hey?
Click to expand...

Obedience out of love is not legalism.
Legalism is trying to be justified by and teaching to keep all 613 Mosaic laws. Anybody who teaches other than this has been taught a false sense of legalism.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#929
#929
gotime said:
Really? that is not always the case. If God himself has told you to be somewhere and to go now and not stop then it would be sin to stop and help.

Its not so clear cut is it. but aside from God telling you something that makes it impossible to stop you simply stop so what is your point?
Click to expand...

Anytime you see something that is good to do and you do not do it, it is sin....James 4:17 teaches this.
 
M

michael56

Banned
#930
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
#930
gotime said:
If the law is written on your hear and mind in the sense you speak of then there is no such thing as ignorant sin because you should know better.

Thus all your sins would be done knowing it is sin is this not true?
Click to expand...

True in the sense I can tell you now I am not perfect in the flesh. No one with the law written on their heart and mind can honestly make such a claim. Because I know for me to perfectly uphold the whole law of God I must pertfectly without ceasing even fleetingly love all I come into contact with for example, no slip ups. Am I expected to every moment of every day wear sackcloth and ashes because I do not meet the perfect standard? No!

What is important is we are works in progress, going in the right direction overall, but within that we make mistakes, we err at times. We are not pre programmed robots who always perfectly follow the manual
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#931
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#931
kennethcadwell said:
Anytime you see something that is good to do and you do not do it, it is sin....James 4:17 teaches this.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree the point is though we can and do do good when we see it needs doing. That is natural when the Holy Spirit is in you. Its not like we ignore people in need that we can help. that's just loving your neighbour.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#932
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#932
michael56 said:
True in the sense I can tell you now I am not perfect in the flesh. No one with the law written on their heart and mind can honestly make such a claim. Because I know for me to perfectly uphold the whole law of God I must pertfectly without ceasing even fleetingly love all I come into contact with for example, no slip ups. Am I expected to every moment of every day wear sackcloth and ashes because I do not meet the perfect standard? No!

What is important is we are works in progress, going in the right direction overall, but within that we make mistakes, we err at times. We are not pre programmed robots who always perfectly follow the manual
Click to expand...
So then when you are convicted that something is a sin such as lusting after a women in your heart do you attempt in any way to avoid that situation?
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#933
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#933
gotime said:
So then when you are convicted that something is a sin such as lusting after a women in your heart do you attempt in any way to avoid that situation?
Click to expand...
I suppose I am asking what do you do to avoid falling in that sin?
 
M

michael56

Banned
#934
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
#934
gotime said:
So then when you are convicted that something is a sin such as lusting after a women in your heart do you attempt in any way to avoid that situation?
Click to expand...

If I lusted after a woman I would instinctively in my heart and mind know that was wrong. What do you mean avoid he situation? I couldn't avoid seeing women with my eyes could I? However, at my age I find that is not so much of a problem these days as it once was, and I am a happily married man and sdo not feel the need to err from my wife. Am I absolutely perfect in this regard? No. But if I even sensed I was looking, or beginning to look at a woman improperly I would quickly look away. Is this because I think of a literal command? No, it is because it is part of my DNA if you like to be that way, it is all over my heart and mind
 
M

michael56

Banned
#935
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
#935
gotime said:
So then when you are convicted that something is a sin such as lusting after a women in your heart do you attempt in any way to avoid that situation?
Click to expand...
The fact remains, according to your views-if you understand the new covenant, it would be impossible for you to believe anyone who does not have heartfelt conviction they are sinning by refusing to observe specifically Saturday Sabbath could be a Christian. I don't mean this unkindly, but refusing to accept that means you do not understand the fullness of the new covenant
 
Last edited:
G

gotime

Senior Member
#936
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#936
michael56 said:
If I lusted after a woman I would instinctively in my heart and mind know that was wrong. What do you mean avoid he situation? I couldn't avoid seeing women with my eyes could I? However, at my age I find that is not so much of a problem these days as it once was, and I am a happily married man and sdo not feel the need to err from my wife. Am I absolutely perfect in this regard? No. But if I even sensed I was looking, or beginning to look at a woman improperly I would quickly look away. Is this because I think of a literal command? No, it is because it is part of my DNA if you like to be that way, it is all over my heart and mind
Click to expand...
here is my point though, you do do something you said you look away. that is obedience. You may not be thinking Oh this is adultery I best look away. but you by the Spirit are caused to obey, that is the work of God in you that caused you to even want to look away.

This is the same for me. obedience is not bad it is the fruit of the Spirit.
 
G

gotime

Senior Member
#937
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#937
michael56 said:
The fact remains, according to your views-if you understand the new covenant, it would be impossible for you to believe anyone who does not have heartfelt conviction they are sinning by refusing to observe specifically Saturday Sabbath could not be a Christian. I don't mean this unkindly, but refusing to accept that means you do not understand the fullness of the new covenant
Click to expand...
Actually I think it is you that does not understand the new covenant. funny hey, we both think the same thing but it actually makes sense because we differ in our view so it stands to reason that we both think the other does not get it.

If I had your view then yes I would think that anyone who does not keep the Sabbath could not be Christian. but I don't have your view so I can accept that there are true Christians who do not keep the Sabbath.
 
MarcR

MarcR

Senior Member
#938
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#938
gotime said:
This is not hard, If I have faith in Jesus my old nature will die and Christ will live in me and Christ does not break the law. simple
Click to expand...

That would be completely true if and only if we were so totally yielded to the Holy Spirit that we never strayed off in our own directions. The fact remains that we all sometimes do stray off in our own directions. When this happens we have sin to confess and repent of.
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#939
#939
Hey you know what gotime and michael56 here we have the three of us sitting in here debating our different points of view, and it is a nice friendly respectful debate. Thank God for there being some relaxed sit back good debating going on. There is just a few people on here that seems can not have a friendly debate with no matter what. This has been great though.
Good night you two and see ya next time.........
 
M

michael56

Banned
#940
Feb 5, 2015
1,852
13
0
#940
gotime said:
Actually I think it is you that does not understand the new covenant. funny hey, we both think the same thing but it actually makes sense because we differ in our view so it stands to reason that we both think the other does not get it.

If I had your view then yes I would think that anyone who does not keep the Sabbath could not be Christian. but I don't have your view so I can accept that there are true Christians who do not keep the Sabbath.
Click to expand...
The law makes us conscious of our sin (Rom 3:20)

The law God requires a person to keep is written on their mind and placed on their heart at the point of conversion.(as Doug Bachelor agrees)

What must be the result? It ain't hard to work out!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.