Must a Christian read the Ten Commandments to Know How God wants them to live?

[michael56]

No Paul fought against appeasing Jewish legalists. Plus the whole point is to talk about the issues the Jews are making and what they thought was biblical or not. and the question after is a bit silly don't you think?

Why is don't have other Gods before me there. why is believe not there? They were not listing every thing that needs to be followed. they were addressing specific things that the Jewish converts were trying to force on Gentile believers.

I have to get ready for church now. I love my wife so go with her on a Saturday, as she comes with me on a Sunday.
Sleep well
God Bless

 

[gotime]

Firstly, you have been hoisted with your own petard. You say we learn truth by the spirit through the word, then when I give you the plain word you will not accept it!!!

If you understood what it means to be truly born again you would not need to ask such a question. You do not need to be told to set aside one specific day a week for God, you want Him to have every day alike, in my view. I only answered that as you asked the question. As Paul says these are disputable matters that should be kept to yourself, I will accept we see truth from the spirit through scripture

I accept the word I don't accept it used wrongly.

You missus the word to keep to your false teaching.

If you understood the word you would know that it is not us that sets the day aside it was God on the 7th day of creation.

You can not do it every day because the Sabbath is resting both physically and spiritually. you can't not work every day can you?.

You show that you do not understand the Sabbath by what you have said.

and again you are wrong Paul did not say the Sabbath was a disputable matter. he said day and did not specify. so we simply need to ask ourselves what days were being disputed over in the early church?

Interestingly enough we don't find the 7th day Sabbath ever being an issue between Jewish and Gentile converts but we do find issue on the feast days. SO common sense and bible truth tell us that the Sabbath is not the issue here. as there is nothing disputable about it.

 

[gotime]

I have to get ready for church now. I love my wife so go with her on a Saturday, as she comes with me on a Sunday.
Sleep well
God Bless

blessings mate, have a great day.

 

[gotime]

I accept the word I don't accept it used wrongly.

You missus the word to keep to your false teaching.

If you understood the word you would know that it is not us that sets the day aside it was God on the 7th day of creation.

You can not do it every day because the Sabbath is resting both physically and spiritually. you can't not work every day can you?.

You show that you do not understand the Sabbath by what you have said.

and again you are wrong Paul did not say the Sabbath was a disputable matter. he said day and did not specify. so we simply need to ask ourselves what days were being disputed over in the early church?

Interestingly enough we don't find the 7th day Sabbath ever being an issue between Jewish and Gentile converts but we do find issue on the feast days. SO common sense and bible truth tell us that the Sabbath is not the issue here. as there is nothing disputable about it.

I can show clearly from the Old Testament that feast days are done away with. and form the new testament that these were the days in contention.

If you are right then show from the Old testament that the Sabbath is done away with in Christ and show from the new testament that the 7th day Sabbath was in contention between Jew and Gentile (keeping or not keeping it). (remember there are feast Sabbaths also)

Let me tell you you wont be able to do it. because it just is not so. plus the Old testament prophecies that the Sabbath will be kept by the gentiles after Jesus comes.

 

[royalscot]

Second, is that the 'context' of Apostle Paul according to Romans chapter 8, certainly not! Why don't you, with all due respect to you, in the first place by the help of the HOLY SPIRIT witness 'context', while you demand from others. What does Apostle Paul say in verse 12 and 13 to the church, about the 'possibility' of 'death' once again.

Regarding 'sin', Apostle John in his epistle speak about 'lawlessness', he says, 'lawlessness is sin'.

They were all given by the Apostles written in their Epistles to the 'liberated' church as Christians and not 'outsiders'.

And in Matthew 7;23, JESUS in the 'future' judgement will declare to Christians who boast have labored in HIS name, who claim to belong to HIM, by saying;

"I never knew you, depart from me, you workers of 'lawlessness'."

if you cant get mathew 7 in context, then what is the chance your context is out in romans 8.
your context is out,
even reading this you need the future to revel a christian gentile.
this is who jesus (below)was talking to.in matthew 7

28 And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching,29 for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.Matthew 7

would anyone in the crowed, be a gentile saved with/by a new covenant because jesus is not back in heaven yet.

acts 15 came after jesus was back in heaven.
acts 15 already told the gentile he /she has a different law.

if you cant reading the word with human eyes,never mind spiritual, at this point, gos, to show your out in time and dates. so in other word are talking rubbish, to keep it simple.

 

[michael56]

I accept the word I don't accept it used wrongly.

You missus the word to keep to your false teaching.

If you understood the word you would know that it is not us that sets the day aside it was God on the 7th day of creation.

You can not do it every day because the Sabbath is resting both physically and spiritually. you can't not work every day can you?.

You show that you do not understand the Sabbath by what you have said.

and again you are wrong Paul did not say the Sabbath was a disputable matter. he said day and did not specify. so we simply need to ask ourselves what days were being disputed over in the early church?

Interestingly enough we don't find the 7th day Sabbath ever being an issue between Jewish and Gentile converts but we do find issue on the feast days. SO common sense and bible truth tell us that the Sabbath is not the issue here. as there is nothing disputable about it.

Paul is quite clear on the issue.

Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, [SUP]10 [/SUP]and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.[SUP]14 [/SUP]When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. [SUP]15 [/SUP]When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, [SUP]16 [/SUP]because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:9-17

Two different things took place in the above scripture. People in Samaria believed the good news, received water Baptism and became Christians. The Holy Spirit must have entered their life for this to happen, for you cannot be a Christian unless the Spirit lives in you(Rom:8:9)

So there is a difference between the Holy Spirit entering a persons life and what happened when Peter and John laid their hands on the believers and they received the Holy Spirit. This would be what a charismatic/Pentecostal would term the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. This event does not need to take place for a person to become a Christian.
Now supposing what is termed the ''Baptism of the Holy Spirit is valid for today(or the infilling of the Holy Spirit) Imagine someone filled with the Spirit. In their heart they want to praise and worship God. They are going to want to worship and praise him every day of the week. They will not be able to reason six days a week they must praise and worship him less than a solitary day.
God wants the heart, a heart that will worship and praise Him for what he has done for them through Christ. He wants a person to take up their cross and follow after His Son. He wants a person to love him above all else and be filled with the Holy Spirit and give Him the glory for what has been done by grace in their lives. Which particular day you go to church, pales into insignificance when you take these things into account.
The Christian is born again of the Holy Spirit. Under the old covenant this did not happen. The Christian does not need to be told they MUST put a certain day aside for God, that is not the spiritual reality

The difference between you and me is this. You hold to a Saturday Sabbath because it is literally written down under the old covenant, if it was not written down and commanded, you would feel no compulsion to keep it. I am compelled to follow what is on my heart and mind, that is the difference here

 

[Grandpa]

what law is it that breaking it makes you a sinner?

Romans 14:23 [SUP] [/SUP]And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

 

[michael56]

I can show clearly from the Old Testament that feast days are done away with. and form the new testament that these were the days in contention.

If you are right then show from the Old testament that the Sabbath is done away with in Christ and show from the new testament that the 7th day Sabbath was in contention between Jew and Gentile (keeping or not keeping it). (remember there are feast Sabbaths also)

Let me tell you you wont be able to do it. because it just is not so. plus the Old testament prophecies that the Sabbath will be kept by the gentiles after Jesus comes.

The only test of scripture concerning this issue is as follows. Please provide one verse of scripture from anywhere in the NT that states Gentile converts MUST observe a Saturday Sabbath. I would not accept your theological reasoning based on your denominational beliefs, only the scripture, Paul does not support your view

But let me say once again. I am pleased for you that you feel blessed to put Saturday aside as your Sabbath day. Where you err is insisting everyone else should do the same

 

[Mitspa]

That's just it though, I don't think a man can be justified by the law. in Fact I know a man cannot be justified by the law.

Is obedience in the Spirit or in the letter...can the flesh please God?

 

[Grandpa]

The problem here is the false assumption that keeping the commandments is a bad thing and that anyone who does is trying to be Justified by them.

Galatians 2:19 [SUP] [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Keeping commandments is a great thing. Unfortunately, for us, there was only One person in the world that could do it. The rest of us aren't able to do the works of the Holy Spirit by our own will and strength.

We all must rely on Christ. Because we are weak but He is Strong.

The 10 commandments aren't for Christians who have come to Christ to try and obey. The 10 commandments take care of themselves when we abide in Christ and have the fruit of the Spirit grown in our lives.

If we look back to the law after we have come to Christ we become just like the Galatians. Even if you say its not for justification or salvation. By Grace through Faith we are saved and not by our works.

I can't give you the faith to stop working at the law. If you think you must continue to work then you must. We all live by faith. You can kid yourself into thinking that your work at the law is because of faith, or because of walking in the spirit but that isn't the case. Walking in the spirit by faith will cause you to rest from your works at the law because your understanding of them was incorrect to begin with. They were a shadow of what is to come. We are called to walk in the Light.

Do you think for one second that walking in the Light will cause us to break any of Gods Law? Your contention about the saturday sabbath is your own religious belief. Did Abraham keep a saturday sabbath? No. He had faith in God and it was counted as righteousness. He already rested in the provision and grace of God.

 

[Jeff_56]

he didn't keep a saturday sabbath. he kept a seventh day sabbath. and all the word of yahweh as well. he obeyed yahweh, his father. simple.

everyone obeys their father.

on judgment day, a multitude of people find out they obeyed the wrong father and didn't even know it.

 

[Mitspa]

no actually my bible belief hinge on it. conviction comes by the Spirit through the word. Is not the word how we measure truth ad test error?

You have said that if I am right then anyone who does not keep the Sabbath is not Christian. however that is based on your view.

But your view suggests that anyone who does not see sin the way you do is not right and not born again.

I suggest that the word of God is a sure measure of what constitutes sin and what does not.

Is circumcision a work of the flesh or a work of the Spirit? Circumcision in the law was only a shadow of the circumcision of the Spirit...likewise the Sabbath was only a shadow of the "REST" that a believer enters into, through the Spirit of God.

Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Its going from the flesh into the Spirit...the true Sabbath is when a believer ceases from their own works.

 

[Jeff_56]

was abraham a spirit, or a man ?

Is obedience in the Spirit or in the letter...can the flesh please God?

 

[Mitspa]

he didn't keep a saturday sabbath. he kept a seventh day sabbath. and all the word of yahweh as well. he obeyed yahweh, his father. simple.

everyone obeys their father.

on judgment day, a multitude of people find out they obeyed the wrong father and didn't even know it.

Well all we can do is pray fro those who are under the law, that they will hear and believe the gospel and come into obedience.

Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith:

 

[Mitspa]

was abraham a spirit, or a man ?

What? do you think Abraham didn't have a spirit?

and how was Abraham obedient ? Not by the works of the law, but by faith.

 

[Grandpa]

The law makes us conscious of our sin (Rom 3:20)

The law God requires a person to keep is written on their mind and placed on their heart at the point of conversion.(as Doug Bachelor agrees)

What must be the result? It ain't hard to work out!

The 10 commandments cause us to be conscious of our sin when we try to work at them in the flesh. Because they are spiritual and our carnal minds cannot understand that our work does not fulfill them. Our carnal minds try to make the spiritual law into carnal commands that we can keep.

The law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is what is written on our hearts and minds. It is the Holy Spirits work in us, on our heart and in our mind that is the cause of our fulfilling the 10 commandments. If we go back to trying to make the 10 commandments carnal so we can work at them we have turned away from the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Not only that but we have turned away from our faith in Christ and His Work on the Cross.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The result is continued faith in Christ and continued rest from our own work at the law.

 

[Grandpa]

he didn't keep a saturday sabbath. he kept a seventh day sabbath. and all the word of yahweh as well. he obeyed yahweh, his father. simple.

everyone obeys their father.

on judgment day, a multitude of people find out they obeyed the wrong father and didn't even know it.

Show scripture where Abraham kept a seventh day sabbath.

 

[michael56]

The 10 commandments cause us to be conscious of our sin when we try to work at them in the flesh. Because they are spiritual and our carnal minds cannot understand that our work does not fulfill them. Our carnal minds try to make the spiritual law into carnal commands that we can keep.

The law of the spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is what is written on our hearts and minds. It is the Holy Spirits work in us, on our heart and in our mind that is the cause of our fulfilling the 10 commandments. If we go back to trying to make the 10 commandments carnal so we can work at them we have turned away from the work of the Holy Spirit in us. Not only that but we have turned away from our faith in Christ and His Work on the Cross.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The result is continued faith in Christ and continued rest from our own work at the law.

I agree with you(I normally do lol) Maybe I word what I mean wrongly at times. I do believe 'the law' God would have reflected in our lives is place on our hearts and written on our minds at the point of conversion, for that is the way the Bible terms it. That law makes me conscious of my sin. But I in myself cannot make myself obey the law on my heart and mind. I have to look away from myself and to Jesus, trusting I am eternally secure with His Father because he paid the price of my shortcomings. I trust in him, through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit to bring me to live an evermore Holy life which reflects the law placed on my heart and mind.

I like Pauls words. Against the fruit of the Spirit there is no law(Gal 5:23) So another way to look at it is, the more I look away from myself and trust in Christ to sanctify me by the Holy Spirit's power the more the fruits of the spirit grow in my life. Those fruits contradict no law of God but are rather the embodiment of them

If you think that is in any way wrong, please let me know. I am always willing to be corrected, if I know the person is someone blessed with much spiritual truth.

 

[keeth]

Is obedience in the Spirit or in the letter...can the flesh please God?

Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:


You tell us. Is the obedience Paul speaks of above of the letter, or the Spirit?


Ro 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Was the obedience of Christ which justified and sanctifies all in Him, of the letter or the Spirit?


Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Is the obedience recommended above of the letter or the Spirit?


Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.Is Paul now again recommending obedience according to the letter of the law, and not the Spirit?2 Cor 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


Can there be any question that the above is concerning the obedience of those of the Spirit?


1 Pe 1:1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


Does Peter now also teach obedience according to the letter over the Spirit?The insinuation that all desire to obey God is of the letter and flesh, is purely demonic.It means without question that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ lived by the letter of the law, over the Spirit of God.


Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


Paul admonishes all to the obedience of Christ, yet you constantly insinuate that the desire to be obedient to God is and can only be according to the letter of the law over the Spirit of God.Perhaps you do not understand the gospel so well as you imagine.To obey is better than sacrifice, because obeying is the sacrifice of the will of the sinner, to the will of the Lord and Savior of all humanity.


1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Mitspa]

Ro 1:1 ¶ Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: 6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

You tell us. Is the obedience Paul speaks of above of the letter, or the Spirit?

Ro 5:17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Was the obedience of Christ which justified and sanctifies all in Him, of the letter or the Spirit?Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Is the obedience recommended above of the letter or the Spirit?

Ro 16:25 ¶ Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: 27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.Is Paul now again recommending obedience according to the letter of the law, and not the Spirit?2 Cor 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.Can there be any question that the above is concerning the obedience of those of the Spirit?
1 Pe 1:1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,Does Peter now also teach obedience according to the letter over the Spirit?The insinuation that all desire to obey God is of the letter and flesh, is purely demonic.It means without question that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ lived by the letter of the law, over the Spirit of God.Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Paul admonishes all to the obedience of Christ, yet you constantly insinuate that the desire to be obedient to God is and can only be according to the letter of the law over the Spirit of God.Perhaps you do not understand the gospel so well as you imagine.To obey is better than sacrifice, because obeying is the sacrifice of the will of the sinner, to the will of the Lord and Savior of all humanity.1Sa 15:22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Yes obedience ...but that is obedience in the Spirit, not in the flesh...that was my point before that the flesh can put on a show of outward obedience but it cannot truly obey spiritual laws.

Obedience is in the "spirit"...faith, not in the "letter"...flesh