One cannot be a Christian and not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
I reject your contention that you are the barometer for another persons works and their relationship to their salvation.
You have no part in it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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I reject your contention that you are the barometer for another persons works and their relationship to their salvation.
You have no part in it.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Of this there is no doubt. Professors who are not possessors. Holding fast to self righteousness and rejecting the righteousness of Christ. 2 Cor 5:21
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I haven't denied anything, nor am I avoiding the issue. Christians do works out of love and gratitude for a free salvation, I repeat, they are the ONLY works God will accept, not works done with a view they will better enable a person's salvation.
I think it is you avoiding the issue. I imagine you must believe if you pass by any opportunity to do a good work, your salvation is threatened.
You continue to avoid one cannot be a Christian yet not do good works.
You do not have a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit so how does bringing that up prove your point?
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If you're not denying Eph 2:10 then you agree one cannot be a Christian yet be void of good work......making the Christians' salvation dependent upon those works. If you do deny this then you are denying Eph 2:10.
F
forsha
Guest
Christians are followers of Christ. The carnal man until he is born of the Spirit, by the grace of God, will not, and indeed can not be a follower of Christ according to 1 Cor 2:14, But the carnal man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are not spiritually discerned.
I have not denied Eoh2:10 at all, but I will once again state, God will only accept works done out of love and gratitude for a free salvation, not works that are done with a view they will better enable ones salvation.
I don't see how you can view your salvation with any assurity, for it does not depend on Christ alone, but on your own good works
Yes, one cannot be a Christian yet not do good works. However, these good works stems from gratefulness of having been saved. They are never done in order to keep, maintain or gain salvation. They are the fruit of salvation and not the condition for same. Huge difference between them two. Enough said. Next topic.
It is the indwelling Holy Spirit that makes one a Christian. Until you receive the Holy Spirit even as the disciples in the upper room you are not born again. You remain a servant to sin and have no knowledge of the Holy One.
You cannot do good works apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit. All the works of those who do not have the indwelling Holy Spirit are works of darkness.
A Christians good works are known to God and testify against all those who do not have the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1)Faith only advocates deny that any work is a necessary part of salvation
2)Doing good works is a necessary part of being a Christian
3)therefore good works are a NECESSARY part of the Christians' salvation
...and you just killed the faith only theology....
tribeman said:
Can one be a Christian yet VOID of doing good works? No.
So the good works are not just fruits of salvation but a NECESSARY part of the Christians salvation. Therefore EPh 2:9 does NOT eliminate works from salvation so why move on to next topic when the contradiction still exists for faith only advocates?
You obfuscating by trying to change subjects. If one cannot do good works without a literal indwelling of the HS then one's lack of good works would be the fault of the HS for His failure to literally indwell in one. Atheists can do good works.
Back to the issue you're avoiding: can one be a Christian and yet be void of doing good works?
No an atheist can not do good works. All the works of an atheist are against God. This is another proof that you do not comprehend the subject matter. You must have the indwelling Holy Spirit or you are lost and unable to do any good works. Romans 3:10 Isaiah says that all our righteousness are as filthy rags before the Lord. Mans works apart from the indwelling Holy Spirit are an affront to God. They offend Gods righteousness. Even the most sincere act of kindness is of no account if the man is unsaved and acts of his own volition.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Good works are the result of, not the cause of salvation. Good works do not get you saved ... but if you are saved you will do good works. So works are a result of, and evidence of, but not the cause of, salvation.
Salvation = good works. Good works does not = salvation.
So an atheist who takes in strangers, visits the imprisoned, and all the other things of Matthew 25 is doing evil works? No, he's doing good works, he just doesn't get credit for them because he doesn't have a salvation account to bank it in.
K
kennethcadwell
Guest
Yes people can do good works even though they do not have the Holy Spirit or believe in the Lord.
The difference is they are counted as filthy rags because they are done for self, and not done out of love for the Lord.
There will be those who even believe they are saved just because of their mere belief in the Lord, but they either still do things for self or continue to live an impure lifestyle. Those are the ones the Lord said He never knew and casts them away.
James 3:11 in context:
9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.
This discusses the (claimed) saved, not atheists. It is also talking about the saved being two-faced, mixing good and bad.
You would understand sooo much more if you understood context and the big picture.
The essence remains that you cannot get sweet water from a corrupt well. You cannot drink sweet water from a dirty glass. An unsaved person which includes atheists cannot do any work that is good in Gods eyes.
It is a valid application of the passage. From Gods perspective anything done outside Christ is unrighteousness.
For the cause of Christ
Roger