I'm not the best at articulating it, maybe since I haven't pieced together the entire concept, but I may be in agreement with what you say here about the distinction between the Torah-Law itself and the penalty for disobeying it. I believe the Messiah came to take upon Himself the penalty for our disobedience. I believe that when Paul refers to the "Law of Sin and Death," he is not referring to the Torah-Law itself, but to the principle effect that to sin leads to death. It might be good to think of the "Law of Sin and Death" as a "natural law" of this world we live in -- a result of the corrupt state of this world, whereas the Torah-Law is a spiritual law handed down to us from God Himself. The Messiah pays the death penalty for us by dying in our place. I also believe this to be the message of Col. 2, as opposed to Mitspa's interpretation as shared in the very first post of this thread. The Messiah has nailed to the cross the charges against us, or our legal indebtedness, which is our death for our disobedience. This reflects exactly what happened at the cross for the Messiah -- His charge was placed above His head; the commands were not. Thus, I don't believe the cross has anything to do with eliminating the Torah-Law. I will conclude by adding to your thought here: I believe the Torah-Law has been transferred to our hearts so that we can do it. The commands were powerless on stone tablets, a "ministry of death" to quote Paul, but the Messiah has paid our death penalty, eliminated the charges against us, and the Holy Spirit now empowers us to do the things God wants us to do as they our internal to us and no longer external.
Hi
Thank you for responding to the post. If I may, I will avoid discussing which laws the Christian is expected to follow, and concentrate on the law of sin and death. We agree, the penalty of sin has been removed, and it is the penalty of sin, that I believe is the true power of sin, for through that penalty sin has the power to condemn you to hell.
Paul stressed the law itself is holy, righteous and good, however, he also stated this:
What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.[SUP]
8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
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9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
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10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
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11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Rom 7:7-11
We can safely assume, Paul is speaking in the above of the time he made a commitment to God as a Pharisee, for he is speaking of the time the law came to him. He said, sin used his knowledge of the commandment 'Thou shalt not covet' to arouse all manner of concupiscence in him. Therefore, through Paul's knowledge of the law, he became a worse sinner. Sin used what was good and Holy to condemn him. Why could sin do that?
I believe, the penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin. To Paul the Pharisee if he could not obey the law he was condemned. He was an ardent Pharisee, the love, mercy and compassion of God were not the deciding factor to him at that time. It may seem a strange concept, but if I said to you. ''If you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell, what is the first thought that will enter your head if you believe me? However, as you know no such penalty exists, you won't be consumed with thinking of such a creature will you.
Paul tells us Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness, not the end of the law full stop. Therefore if Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness, you cannot be made unrighteous in God's sight by your imperfections concerning those laws can you, the penalty of your sin must therefore have been paid.
It is strange, but many then say you have a license to sin. The reality is the very opposite is true. What happens if you take something's power away? It must weaken mustn't it, nothing else is possible. Therefore, with the penalty of sin removed from your life, the true power of sin, is also removed. You therefore will live a holier life.
A famous evangelist once said. ''Christ died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to remove the power of sin, and the power of sin is the law(1Co. r15:56) Or to put it concisely, the power of sin is the penalty attached to the law if you break it.
Hence Paul states:
Do we then nullify the law by this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ, not obedience to the law) not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom 3:31