No Longer to Obey Commandments

psychomom · Mar 6, 2015

amen.

just a thought...since obedience can't have to do with our justification,
is it that it has to do with sanctification?
i mean, it's all God's work, and all to His glory, but we're told to do (and not do!) certain things for many reasons...a witness to the world, helping our neighbor, etc.

but the Lord Jesus requires things of us for our own good, too.
baptism and communion fall under that, i think.

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

psychomom said:

Good works, or any works, do not provide us with salvation. That is by Grace, and that a gift from God...........God justifies us, we do not justify ourselves (in my opinion).

Sanctification is where good works (fruit of our salvation) come into play. Sanctification is the preparation of the new believer by the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to equip us to fulfill God's purpose for us. We are purposed unto good works.

Obedience, BOTH spiritual and physical have to do with our Sanctification. And, yes, Communion and Baptism are two examples. But there are many more.

The problem arises when people can not separate good works/the fruit of our salvation/our purpose/calling from what salvation is.

InSpiritInTruth · Mar 6, 2015

Matthew 22:36-40[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Romans 13:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

a wee bit on justification............FYI

by Matt Slick
Justification is the legal act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his or her sins. It is not that the sinner is now sinless, but that he is "declared" sinless. This declaration of righteousness is being justified before God. This justification is based on the shed blood of Jesus, " . . . having now been justified by His blood . . . " (Rom. 5:9) where Jesus was crucified, died, was buried, and rose again (1 Cor. 15:1-4). God imputed (reckoned to our account) the righteousness of Christ at the same time our sins were imputed to Christ when he was on the cross. That is why it says in 1 Pet. 2:24, "and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." Also, 2 Cor. 5:21 says, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." Additionally, we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1) apart from works of the Law (Rom. 3:28).

Found here:

[h=3]Verses Showing Justification by Faith|Bible and Justification ...[/h]

oldhermit · Mar 6, 2015

I wonder if it has ever occurred to some that disobedience and unbelief are the same thing producing the same consequences.

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

Good Scriptures every one...........but do they answer the question posed in the OP? Or are they concerning OT Law?

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ as recorded in His Gospel, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James, John and Peter as recorded in their Epistles?

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

Here is the first commandment Jesus gave in His Gospel.

Matthew 4:17 .) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

I understand "repent" to mean --- to turn around/away, to change direction.

Given that, to obey His commandment, requires both spiritual and physical repenting does it not? If we only spiritually repent have we truly repented? Or vise versa.........if we only physically repent have we fully repented?

Salvation is truly a spiritual change of the inner man, but does that inner change not require a man to also change his physical actions? I believe it does.

Loving God and loving our neighbors is truly a spiritual love.........but acts of love displaying this spiritual love require physical action do they not?

Some thoughts..............

damombomb · Mar 6, 2015

If there were no commandments, we would not known what sin is:
But the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin.

InSpiritInTruth · Mar 6, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Matthew 21:28-31[SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you."

James 2:17-20
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

royalscot · Mar 6, 2015

p_rehbein said:

Not just the Apostles........but the commandments of Jesus Christ given to us in His Gospel as recorded.(your quote, and post.172)

how is scripture to be viewed. ie gentiles came last to know about jesus christ.
so up to that point, would the scripture be viewed as a history account, to what god has done with a jewish people.
would this also include the life of jesus, being under the old covenant, as in was jesus is back in heaven.
context
3 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

are you under law or under jesus.

.7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),

is peter ministry for jewish people.
pauls ministry a gentile.

so why are you saying jesus is talking to a gentile, from the gospels, when it is clear, the new covenant is not started yet.

would your context be wrong. to who these scriptures were talking to.

notuptome · Mar 6, 2015

p_rehbein said:

If we are changed like the caterpillar is changed into the butterfly then we will by our new nature act differently.

We do not have any cooperation in our new birth in Christ but like a newborn babe we do have some participation in our growth and maturity in Christ. Not much at first but as we grow we do learn to trust Christ for more and more each and every day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

john832 · Mar 6, 2015

damombomb said:

Exactly! The Law defines sin. It tells us what is right and wrong. It does not cleanse us from sin, that is Christ's sacrifice...

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Please note, there is nothing about Law concerning our justification, reconciliation or salvation here. The Law tells us what to do and what not to do. It also shows us when we need to go to God for forgiveness and what to ask forgiveness for.

We should be going to God daily (and three times a day at that - Psa 55:16-17) and asking forgiveness for our shortcomings...

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye:...
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

Saved2004 · Mar 6, 2015

All three! The Law, Christ's and Paul's commandments are all holy and righteous, because they are all from God. Jesus said that he didn't come to abolish the law but fulfill it!
As a "Born Again" Christian we have Christ in us and he fulfills the entire law /commandments through us.
With the New Covenant, we are not expected to obey the Law as a requirement for salvation, that is by God's grace alone, but all the commandments are worthy of striving for. While trying, and when we fail just one element of the entire law, Christ is right there taking up the slack! Romans 8:1

royalscot · Mar 6, 2015

john832 said:

law defines sin for a jewish person. at that point in time, up until 70ad. ware no body alive can follow the law of moses fully without a temple of stone.
context.
what law do you define what sin is. so when was a gentile given this law. that you quote from matthew.

so when was a gentile give the 10 commands or full law given to a moses.

acts 10 never said repent.
act 15 never met to ask, what law was already in place.

context to scripture.

43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."Acts 10

do you see the word repent.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God John 3

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

royalscot said:

Not just the Apostles........but the commandments of Jesus Christ given to us in His Gospel as recorded.(your quote, and post.172)

how is scripture to be viewed. ie gentiles came last to know about jesus christ.
so up to that point, would the scripture be viewed as a history account, to what god has done with a jewish people.
would this also include the life of jesus, being under the old covenant, as in was jesus is back in heaven.
context
3 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

are you under law or under jesus.

.7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),

is peter ministry for jewish people.
pauls ministry a gentile.

so why are you saying jesus is talking to a gentile, from the gospels, when it is clear, the new covenant is not started yet.

would your context be wrong. to who these scriptures were talking to.

None of this relates to the OP..............it is off topic...........

p_rehbein · Mar 6, 2015

Goodness gracious............can't leave the Forums for even a minute.........

THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT THE LAW!

Discussions of the Law are off-topic

If you want to argue the Law, start your own thread(s)

Thanks...............

Jeff_56 · Mar 6, 2015

Re: Obey Commandments.... what's FIRST?

damombomb said:

a few.

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[TD="class: TextObject, width: 575"] Do you see how this First Commandment -- to accept and receive the LORD as your God -- implies faith in the resurrection from the dead? When the LORD says, Anokhi Adonai Elohekha (אָנכִי יְהוָה אֱלהֶיךָ) - "I AM the LORD your God" - he invites you to join the life that He Himself lives, that is, Eternal Life... He is the "Living God" (אֱלהִים חַיִּים), the Source and LORD of all Life. When you hear "I AM the LORD your God" as personally spoken to you, then you are made a child of eternal promise, and even should heaven and earth melt away in fervent heat, you keep faith that nothing can separate you from the care and love of your heavenly Father (Rom. 8:31-39).

The First Commandment is absolutely basic and fundamental to all else that follows. This is the very first word... "I am your only deliverer, the One who loves and personally choses you..." Until we are personally willing to accept Adonai as our God, the rest of the commandments are not likely to be obeyed.

The God of Israel is calling us to obey the glorious truth that He alone is our God.[/TD]
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GracethroughfaithinChrist · Mar 6, 2015

p_rehbein said:

With all do respect brother Paul,
i have been more than fair and respectful in responding to your questions here and was not attempting to turn this thread into a discussion about the law of Moses. You were freely and respectfully given a response to your OP and the additional questions you posed to me after that even though you were offended that i attempted to give brother Marc Rep for a edifying response that he gave during this discussion that didn't meet your personal criteria with respect to your opening question.
In the future when you wish to discuss the scriptures please ask direct questions such as "do you believe physical works are necessary within our Christian faith according to the NT scriptures to achieve or maintain salvation?" or "do you believe the aid of men and physical works within the Christian faith are necessary according to the NT to achieve or maintain salvation?" instead of straw men set up to lead into those same discussions. i will respectfully withdraw from this discussion leaving you to dictate this thread according to your own criteria.

VioletReigns · Mar 6, 2015

You who believe that you must continually focus on following laws and commandments rather than turning your eyes wholly upon Jesus, I have a question for you.

How's it working for you?

If you honestly believe you are under the obligation to obey a list of laws, are you obeying that list of laws? And if you are not, if you have missed the mark in any tiny area, then what?! Are you in a fallen state? Are you condemning yourself? Because the Bible tells us that if we fail to obey one tiny little law, we're guilty of EVERYTHING! Are you guilty of everything?

Of course, if you are under the grace of Jesus Christ, who has redeemed us with His blood, rules and reigns in our hearts and keeps us from falling, you don't even have to consider any of that. He can make the wind and the sea obey Him, and He can make you and I obey Him, too. \

/ Hallelujah!

Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
nobody can come to the Father by their own efforts or their own obedience. If you could, it would make the Cross of Jesus in vain. Nobody can approach the throne of God by their own merit and certainly not by good works.

Jeff_56 · Mar 6, 2015

VioletReigns said:

you missed the main importance, i think.

as it is written, by yahweh's grace, promise, purpose and plan in yahshua,

i abide in yahshua , today, every day, and have the mind of christ; all by yahweh's doing in him.

yahshua joyfully and willingly and wholeheartedly did all the father appointed for him to do WITHOUT

yes, WITHOUT breaking ANY COMMANDMENT of TORAH.

as yahweh's son. so yahshua lived/ lives.

as yahweh's son, so i live, just as yahshua lives, as i abide in him and his word abides in me.

this condition is virtually completely unknown on earth.

even though it is "the mystery" and a promise of the father, few people ever are willing to be his.

so it's not as if an "obligation" and certainly NOT focusing on the rules or the law or the Torah ---

but as yahweh does and says, so all the ekklesia are told to do and speak. yahshua said this to

all the disciples many many times, and is still telling us that every day. and so we live in him, free

and clear of the power of sin, the power of the devil, and the power of the world.

not because we kept enough rules and made enough brownie points; but according to yahweh's PLAN

as it is written in HIS WORD, and HIS DOING in YAHSHUA.... complete and being completed, perfect and
being perfected, IN HIM, HIS DOING, willingly and joyously and wholeheartedly slaves of righteousness , and even

more called to be his sons, "what great love the father has shown for us, to be given the power to become sons of God....." and such we are, by his plan, his purpose, in his strength , in his grace,
with out wholehearted and complete willingness to participate with him, in union with him in yahshua,
participating in his righteousness of life in him.... as it is written repeatedly in the OT and the NT....

INSTEAD OF THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE -- as all start out slaves of sin and death.

i.e. perhaps those who you think focus, or who do focus on the rules, are still at best being taught by the baby-sitter, and at worst are trying in their own strength somehow to be righteous,
which of course never works.

just as it never works saying someone is free from being an obedient son because of grace --- they are without discipline and seems like they are forever learning but never coming to knowledge of the truth....

no one can become an obedient son in any way except by being BORN FROM ABOVE BY FATHER'S WILL --- He doesn't breath life into someone to have them become a disobedient son, but
HE takes great joy and delight in giving his son yahshua for all who are called according to his purpose and chosen to live and abide in him forever; and HE TRAINS / DISCIPLINES HIS SONS - does not leave them as bastards (not his sons) -- to live HIS WAY IN YAHSHUA..... beautifully, wonderfully, joyously, refreshing life, ... .... ... ...

No Longer to Obey Commandments

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