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Ac 3:19-21
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
KJV
Elin,
Ac 3:19-21
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
KJV
Whom the heaven must receive does not appear to address His coming and going. It only seems to say that whether He leaves or not He is always welcome back.
A case can certainly be made for considering the wrath of God (the events commencing after opening the seventh seal) as part of the tribulation; just as the case has been made for considering it separate. The rapture must occur pre-wrath.
Whether that is mid trib or post trib is a matter of symantics, unless the post-trib advocates are saying that God's wrath will fall on the Church; which is certainly wrong.
Whether that is mid trib or post trib is a matter of symantics, unless the post-trib advocates are saying that God's wrath will fall on the Church; which is certainly wrong.
There is a question asked in Revelation concerning who will stand when the wrath of God comes:
Rev 6:16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?
The answer given is in the next chapter.
144,000 who what?
Rev 7:14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
We see at the end that the land beast makes a mark:
Rev 13:15 And it was given unto him to give breath to it, even to the image to the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead;
Rev 13:17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.
We also see a warning about this mark:
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So we have a people on the earth who give warning who are these people?
notice the 144,000 at the start of the chapter. and notice this:
Rev 14:13 And I heard the voice from heaven saying, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth: yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.
So a warning message is given and then some shall die who are these?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These are those who testify of Jesus and the word of God. So clearly during this time there will be Gods people on the earth.
144,000 are the ones who stand through the wrath of God and they are the ones who give the warning and then Gods wrath is poured out while they are there cause its not till after this that the coming of the Lord happens.
Rev 14:1-5 144,000 who give a message to the world.
Rev 14: 6-13 The three messages the 144,000 give.
Rev 14: 14-20 the coming of Christ and the wrath of God.
Rev 6:16 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
Rev 6:17 for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand?
The answer given is in the next chapter.
144,000 who what?
Rev 7:14 And I say unto him, My lord, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they that come of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
We see at the end that the land beast makes a mark:
Rev 13:15 And it was given unto him to give breath to it, even to the image to the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as should not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bond, that there be given them a mark on their right hand, or upon their forehead;
Rev 13:17 and that no man should be able to buy or to sell, save he that hath the mark, even the name of the beast or the number of his name.
We also see a warning about this mark:
Rev 14:9 And another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a great voice, If any man worshippeth the beast and his image, and receiveth a mark on his forehead, or upon his hand,
Rev 14:10 he also shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints, they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So we have a people on the earth who give warning who are these people?
notice the 144,000 at the start of the chapter. and notice this:
Rev 14:13 And I heard the voice from heaven saying, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from henceforth: yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; for their works follow with them.
So a warning message is given and then some shall die who are these?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
These are those who testify of Jesus and the word of God. So clearly during this time there will be Gods people on the earth.
144,000 are the ones who stand through the wrath of God and they are the ones who give the warning and then Gods wrath is poured out while they are there cause its not till after this that the coming of the Lord happens.
Rev 14:1-5 144,000 who give a message to the world.
Rev 14: 6-13 The three messages the 144,000 give.
Rev 14: 14-20 the coming of Christ and the wrath of God.
By the way part of the reason for this wrath is to protect Gods people:
Rev 16:12 And the sixth poured out his bowl upon the great river, the river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way might by made ready for the kings that come from the sunrising.
Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, as it were frogs:
Rev 16:14 for they are spirits of demons, working signs; which go forth unto the kings of the whole world, to gather them together unto the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
Rev 16:15 (Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.)
This also shows that the wrath of God either comes just before the coming of Christ or basically at the same time. this lines up with Matthew 24 which says that Christ comes immediately after the tribulation of those days.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth poured out his bowl upon the great river, the river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way might by made ready for the kings that come from the sunrising.
Rev 16:13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, as it were frogs:
Rev 16:14 for they are spirits of demons, working signs; which go forth unto the kings of the whole world, to gather them together unto the war of the great day of God, the Almighty.
Rev 16:15 (Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.)
This also shows that the wrath of God either comes just before the coming of Christ or basically at the same time. this lines up with Matthew 24 which says that Christ comes immediately after the tribulation of those days.
Jesus states clearly that if he did not step in when he does there would be NO FLESH LEFT ALIVE...but for the sake of the ELECT and there being SOME THAT REMAIN UNTO the BODY PRSENCE of Christ...he will step in so as to preserve SOME FLESH LEFT ALIVE!.......logically answer WHY he would say that and jive with a world rolling along just fine and POOF the believers just disappear en masse..
This thought admits 2 possibilities:
1) The rapture occurs pre-wrath after the ascendency of the AC.
2) Those saved after the rapture and during the tribulation are (in God's eyes) among the elect.
This thought admits 2 possibilities:
1) The rapture occurs pre-wrath after the ascendency of the AC.
2) Those saved after the rapture and during the tribulation are (in God's eyes) among the elect.
Rev 18:1 After these things I saw another angel coming down out of heaven, having great authority; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
Rev 18:2 And he cried with a mighty voice, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and is become a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For by the wine of the wrath of her fornication all the nations are fallen; and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth waxed rich by the power of her wantonness.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:
This is a last call for people to come out just before the plagues fall on Babylon. so must be some people here.
I believe this is a promise for Gods people who will be here when the wrath of God falls.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Rev 18:2 And he cried with a mighty voice, saying, Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, and is become a habitation of demons, and a hold of every unclean spirit, and a hold of every unclean and hateful bird.
Rev 18:3 For by the wine of the wrath of her fornication all the nations are fallen; and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth waxed rich by the power of her wantonness.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:
This is a last call for people to come out just before the plagues fall on Babylon. so must be some people here.
I believe this is a promise for Gods people who will be here when the wrath of God falls.
Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Psa 91:9 Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
Psa 91:10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
Biscuit,
It is the nature of a forum to debate ideas in which Scripture brings people to differences in understanding.
Whether or not anybody is persuaded in such debates, they are valuable to clarify and affirm one's own understanding.
Most of us debate without rancor or personal attack.
you are certainly correct that those who don't should.
It is the nature of a forum to debate ideas in which Scripture brings people to differences in understanding.
Whether or not anybody is persuaded in such debates, they are valuable to clarify and affirm one's own understanding.
Most of us debate without rancor or personal attack.
you are certainly correct that those who don't should.
Excellent point! God could indeed prepare a 'Goshen' in which the Church would be protected during the trumpet and bowel judgements.
The following Scripture seems to support this idea:
Rv 12:13-17
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV
I am not yet persuaded; but I am open to this as a possibility.
The following Scripture seems to support this idea:
Rv 12:13-17
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV
I am not yet persuaded; but I am open to this as a possibility.
An interesting point on the texts you just quoted:
It says they women fled to the wilderness, seem similar to this:
Mat 24:15 'So when you see the appalling abomination, of which the prophet Daniel spoke, set up in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mat 24:16 then those in Judaea must escape to the mountains;
I don't know if there is an illusion here or connection but interesting none the less. and the reason for the flight is this:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Seems to be so that they can escape the tribulation.
This would presumably happen right after the call out:
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
surely if they come out then the plagues fall only on the wicked and the people of God call people out and then flee at the sign given.
It says they women fled to the wilderness, seem similar to this:
Mat 24:15 'So when you see the appalling abomination, of which the prophet Daniel spoke, set up in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mat 24:16 then those in Judaea must escape to the mountains;
I don't know if there is an illusion here or connection but interesting none the less. and the reason for the flight is this:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Seems to be so that they can escape the tribulation.
This would presumably happen right after the call out:
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
surely if they come out then the plagues fall only on the wicked and the people of God call people out and then flee at the sign given.
The Great Tribulation = Satan's Wrath
Satan's Wrath = Persecution and mass slaughter of Christians and Jews
God's Wrath = Comes after Satan's Wrath and is in response to it.
God's Wrath is NOT part of the Tribulation
Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are not sequential. This is a false assumption many make.
Seals do what? They Seal the scroll. Once loosed, you can read the details inside.
Satan's Wrath = Persecution and mass slaughter of Christians and Jews
God's Wrath = Comes after Satan's Wrath and is in response to it.
God's Wrath is NOT part of the Tribulation
Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are not sequential. This is a false assumption many make.
Seals do what? They Seal the scroll. Once loosed, you can read the details inside.
Let me ask you something. If the Tribulation is Satan's Wrath and Satan decimates the church either by deception and/or death, and that Satan's Tribulation occurs before God's Wrath, would that not explain why we see a Great Multitude in heaven who "come out of great tribulation" and would that not also explain why the Lord must "shorten those days (Satan's Tribulation) to prevent Satan from killing all flesh?
Therefore, the rapture does not need to occur in relation to the Tribulation at all. In my view, the Rapture happens on the last day, the very last day. If you read 1 Thes 4:14 you see that this passage is discussing the return of the Father, not Christ. It is God who brings "those who sleep in Jesus," it is not Jesus bringing those who sleep in Jesus.
Therefore, the rapture does not need to occur in relation to the Tribulation at all. In my view, the Rapture happens on the last day, the very last day. If you read 1 Thes 4:14 you see that this passage is discussing the return of the Father, not Christ. It is God who brings "those who sleep in Jesus," it is not Jesus bringing those who sleep in Jesus.
There is absolutely no teaching of the concept of a pre-Trib Saint vs. a post-Trib Saint. Further, in the Olivet Discourse, Christ never breathes a word of a pre-Trib return!! He never discusses "rapturing" or snatching believers off the earth prior to the Tribulation. This event (if factual) would be one heck of a sign to give His disciples but Christ completely omits it.
The Pre-Trib Rapture concept is an invention of man. There is no teaching of it. Instead, Christ seems to be warning us (and the Jews) of what is coming - deception - mass killings etc.
The Pre-Trib Rapture concept is an invention of man. There is no teaching of it. Instead, Christ seems to be warning us (and the Jews) of what is coming - deception - mass killings etc.
K
I hope I am understanding you right, as you say the seals, trumpets, and bowls are not sequential. Which to me you mean they do not run one after the other, but the bible shows they do just that.
The bible shows the the 7 seals are opened, and then in Revelation 8 shows the 7 trumpets are set off after the opening of the 7th seal. The trumpets can not run concurrent with the seals when the angels that blow them are not set up to blow them tell after the opening of the 7th seal. Then God's wrath in the bowl judgments are poured out after the 7th trumpet has been blasted, after the events of the GT have taken place. They do not run concurrent, they run in a consecutive order....
Again, thinking the seals, trumpets and bowls are sequential is a mistake many make. They don't run concurrent and they do not run in consecutive order. This was merely the order in which John was shown things. John was shown things in further detail at different times during his spiritual trip to heaven.
5 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
The seals merely hold the contents of the scroll, they summarize it. Below is the same event shown three times. It happens after the opening of the 7th seal, the sounding of the 7th trumpet and the pouring of the 7th vial. This alone proves my point but there is more.
Rev 8:5 ...And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake... ...And hail and fire followed.
Rev 11:19 ...And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 16:18 ...And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth... ...[SUP]21 [/SUP]And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.
We see the above same event described in increasing detail. The same 5 things are happening:
Noises
Thunderings
Lightning
Earthquake
Hail
Since the same above 5 events told in ever increasing detail are present after the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl they cannot be sequential and neither are they concurrent until we get to the 7th of each. At the 7th of each is when Christ returns.
The Fourth Seal is the start of the Tribulation. It is the rise of Radical Islam. Rev 13 provides more detail. The 5th seal shows us the saints who were killed thus far in the great Tribulation. The Great Multitude of Rev 7 provides more detail to the 5th seal.
The Sixth Seal describes something incredible happening in the heavens above earth. Let's look at three passages which totally coincide, describing the same event thus fixing the time as after the Tribulation. Rev 6:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
This passage coincides with Mat 24:29 which clearly tells us the Tribulation is over followed by incredible signs in the heavens.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luke tells it this way:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; [SUP]26 [/SUP]men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Again, Satan's Great Tribulation is over by this point. I love Luke's description. Men's hearts are failing out of fear of the Wrath of God which is coming. Rev 6 tells us that kings and everyone hid in caves and rocks of mountains wishing to be hidden from the Face of God and from the Wrath of the Lamb. Clearly, something major is going on above and they see it and they now know that they are in big trouble. Personally, I think heaven actually appears above earth causing all these disruptions on earth. Clearly men identify God on the throne so they can see Him.
The Bowls are clearly the Wrath of God and they come in response to Satan's Great Tribulation. The very word, "Tribulation" as used in the Bible has ALWAYS been used to describe persecution and killing of the righteous at the hands of the wicked.
I hope this helps you understand???
5 And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals.
The seals merely hold the contents of the scroll, they summarize it. Below is the same event shown three times. It happens after the opening of the 7th seal, the sounding of the 7th trumpet and the pouring of the 7th vial. This alone proves my point but there is more.
Rev 8:5 ...And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake... ...And hail and fire followed.
Rev 11:19 ...And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 16:18 ...And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth... ...[SUP]21 [/SUP]And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent.
We see the above same event described in increasing detail. The same 5 things are happening:
Noises
Thunderings
Lightning
Earthquake
Hail
Since the same above 5 events told in ever increasing detail are present after the 7th seal, 7th trumpet and 7th bowl they cannot be sequential and neither are they concurrent until we get to the 7th of each. At the 7th of each is when Christ returns.
The Fourth Seal is the start of the Tribulation. It is the rise of Radical Islam. Rev 13 provides more detail. The 5th seal shows us the saints who were killed thus far in the great Tribulation. The Great Multitude of Rev 7 provides more detail to the 5th seal.
The Sixth Seal describes something incredible happening in the heavens above earth. Let's look at three passages which totally coincide, describing the same event thus fixing the time as after the Tribulation. Rev 6:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! [SUP]17 [/SUP]For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
This passage coincides with Mat 24:29 which clearly tells us the Tribulation is over followed by incredible signs in the heavens.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Luke tells it this way:
[SUP]25 [/SUP]“And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; [SUP]26 [/SUP]men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
Again, Satan's Great Tribulation is over by this point. I love Luke's description. Men's hearts are failing out of fear of the Wrath of God which is coming. Rev 6 tells us that kings and everyone hid in caves and rocks of mountains wishing to be hidden from the Face of God and from the Wrath of the Lamb. Clearly, something major is going on above and they see it and they now know that they are in big trouble. Personally, I think heaven actually appears above earth causing all these disruptions on earth. Clearly men identify God on the throne so they can see Him.
The Bowls are clearly the Wrath of God and they come in response to Satan's Great Tribulation. The very word, "Tribulation" as used in the Bible has ALWAYS been used to describe persecution and killing of the righteous at the hands of the wicked.
I hope this helps you understand???
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LET ME SOLVE ONE MYSTERY, THE SECOND TRUMPET and SECOND BOWL
Note that 1/3 of the "sea" is affected.
Second Trumpet: The Sea Struck
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
What are we told about God's Wrath? It is poured out in double strength and it is done to repay. God isn't repaying himself so who is God repaying?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.
If Satan is responsible for the 2nd Trumpet (My view), then we should expect God's Wrath to be in response in double strength. Is that what we find?
Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.
If Satan kills 1/3, it leaves 2/3 which is then all that remains. So God then kills 2/3 which is double 1/3. The Math works perfectly.
Now this is the funny part. People actually think God is killing all the little fish. Now why would God kill innocent fish? He doesn't. The word "Sea" is a metaphor. We are told that the "sea" is a geographic location where the Man of Sin comes from. There are people inhabiting the Sea. It is NOT a body of water.
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Satan has no interest in harming fish either. Where does the first beast come from?
Rev 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
The Beast comes from the Sea. So where geographically is the sea?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
LEOPARD = Greece, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon
BEAR = Iraq
LION = Iran/Persia
So, radical Islam starts in the area of the Leopard, Bear and Lion, just where we see it has started. Apparently these crazy beheading nut jobs are going to kill 1/3 of their fellow Muslims, those who don't join their jihad. We know from Dan 11 and other passages in Ezekiel 38-39 and other places that they will also attack Israel and southern Arab nations like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. We also know from Zechariah that God will kill every last one of them who came against Israel.
Zech 14:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
So, there is your proof of the Second Trumpet and God's Wrath response to it with the 2nd Bowl.
Note that 1/3 of the "sea" is affected.
Second Trumpet: The Sea Struck
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
What are we told about God's Wrath? It is poured out in double strength and it is done to repay. God isn't repaying himself so who is God repaying?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.
If Satan is responsible for the 2nd Trumpet (My view), then we should expect God's Wrath to be in response in double strength. Is that what we find?
Second Bowl: The Sea Turns to Blood
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then the second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it became blood as of a dead man; and every living creature in the sea died.
If Satan kills 1/3, it leaves 2/3 which is then all that remains. So God then kills 2/3 which is double 1/3. The Math works perfectly.
Now this is the funny part. People actually think God is killing all the little fish. Now why would God kill innocent fish? He doesn't. The word "Sea" is a metaphor. We are told that the "sea" is a geographic location where the Man of Sin comes from. There are people inhabiting the Sea. It is NOT a body of water.
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
Satan has no interest in harming fish either. Where does the first beast come from?
Rev 13:1 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
The Beast comes from the Sea. So where geographically is the sea?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
LEOPARD = Greece, Turkey, Syria, Lebanon
BEAR = Iraq
LION = Iran/Persia
So, radical Islam starts in the area of the Leopard, Bear and Lion, just where we see it has started. Apparently these crazy beheading nut jobs are going to kill 1/3 of their fellow Muslims, those who don't join their jihad. We know from Dan 11 and other passages in Ezekiel 38-39 and other places that they will also attack Israel and southern Arab nations like Saudi Arabia and Egypt. We also know from Zechariah that God will kill every last one of them who came against Israel.
Zech 14:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
So, there is your proof of the Second Trumpet and God's Wrath response to it with the 2nd Bowl.
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