SAVED BY WORKS

[kennethcadwell]

The reason so many people walk away from the faith is because Christians reel off pat statements they cannot in their own lives live up to.

Is it living in love to demand of others what you fail to achieve in your own life and thereby crush them? No it isn't, you are falling to obey the second most important commandment by that route, and according to Paul that means the law of Christ cannot be fulfilled in your life.

I am grateful you have plainly laid out(in reality) your belief of a righteousness of obedience to the Ten Commandments. The Bible does not teach that. Please show me where Paul differentiated between the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic law in respect of a person not being under the law

Once again though as we go round and round the Lord gave a number of standards that we must do, and the original 12 Apostles questioned Him on this to the point they even said how can anybody be saved then.
He answered them calling them men of little faith, and then also said man alone can not, but with God all things are possible. For He sent His Holy Spirit for this purpose, to lead and guide us in all things and mold us unto perfection. Yet some still want to put limitations on God as if the Holy Spirit is not with them, saying it is still impossible to do those things. Do you really thing the Holy Spirit will transgress God's moral laws? If not how can one not keep the commandments with the Holy Spirit in them?

It just makes no sense to say the Holy Spirit is in us, but we will continue to constantly give into sin everyday also.
This is a sign of a carnal mind who is still stuck in the flesh, and have not fully given themselves over to the Spirits guidance. Does not mean one in the faith is better than another, but the bible does say that there will be some who are weak in the faith and need help to make them stronger from the Holy Spirit and those who have matured in the faith.

If somebody tells you that you can live and walk both in the flesh and the Spirit, then do not listen to that teacher as they are giving false teaching that leads to death and not eternal life......

 

[michael56]

Once again though as we go round and round the Lord gave a number of standards that we must do, and the original 12 Apostles questioned Him on this to the point they even said how can anybody be saved then.
He answered them calling them men of little faith, and then also said man alone can not, but with God all things are possible. For He sent His Holy Spirit for this purpose, to lead and guide us in all things and mold us unto perfection. Yet some still want to put limitations on God as if the Holy Spirit is not with them, saying it is still impossible to do those things. Do you really thing the Holy Spirit will transgress God's moral laws? If not how can one not keep the commandments with the Holy Spirit in them?

It just makes no sense to say the Holy Spirit is in us, but we will continue to constantly give into sin everyday also.
This is a sign of a carnal mind who is still stuck in the flesh, and have not fully given themselves over to the Spirits guidance. Does not mean one in the faith is better than another, but the bible does say that there will be some who are weak in the faith and need help to make them stronger from the Holy Spirit and those who have matured in the faith.

If somebody tells you that you can live and walk both in the flesh and the Spirit, then do not listen to that teacher as they are giving false teaching that leads to death and not eternal life......

By your refusal to answer the question put, you acknowledge when Paul says the Christian is not under law, nowhere does he differentiate between the mosaic law and Ten commandments concerning that.

If the new covenant only hinged on one core point I would agree with you, but it doesn't!

 

[KJV1611]

That is not going wrong because the Apostle Paul shows in Romans 13:9 that walking in those fruits of the Spirit will not transgress those 10 commandments but uphold them instead. For instance how can one walk in love, and hate others ? You can't because they contradict, just like how can one say the love the Lord but deny to follow His teachings for salvation? Once again you can't as they contradict.........

Let's look at Romans 13:8-9 and see if what you say is true.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Owe no man nothing, just love him. If you do this, you have fulfilled the law. Note: It does not say obeying the 10 commandments fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Fulfilling the law (i.e. Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet and all other commandments) is briefly summed up as Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Did you catch that? Romans 13:9 says exactly the same thing Romans 13:8 says. Fulfilling the law is briefly summed up as Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

You changed Romans 13:9 say something totally different than what it actually says. You're being led by the idol shepherd Kenneth. The idol shepherd had his right eye put out, he can't see grace... even when it's written plainly in Romans 13:9. You have taken the grace of God (love your neighbor fulfills the law) and changed it into law keeping.

 

[JaumeJ]

This is grace, mercy, love , judgment, justice and much more. I pray those who are in the love of God understand what you have shared here. This theme is repeated over and over in the Old Testament when the people would turn from God, and He would tell them to turn from their evil ways to Him, and He would turn to them and be their God, and they His people. This is the same today as it was then, and always will be, for if this was so before Messiah, how much more so it is now with His wonderful grace given by His sacrifice for all who will receive It. Again, thank you for sharing this. Amen.

Once again a misuse of understanding Hebrews 6, as the scripture is not saying it is impossible for all who fall away to come back in repentance to receive salvation.

The context is stating it is impossible for those who by their own understanding refuse to repent because they feel there is no need and they put the Lord to an open shame because they will never turn from their ways. Their repentance is not a true repentance, as only a true repentance will show a change in one's life to turn away from sin.

Nowhere in the bible does it say a person who falls away can not come back in repentance.
So no we are not scared of that passage because we do not misuse it to say one who falls away can not repent and come back to the Lord.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Let's look at Romans 13:8-9 and see if what you say is true.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Owe no man nothing, just love him. If you do this, you have fulfilled the law. Note: It does not say obeying the 10 commandments fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Fulfilling the law (i.e. Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet and all other commandments) is briefly summed up as Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Did you catch that? Romans 13:9 says exactly the same thing Romans 13:8 says. Fulfilling the law is briefly summed up as Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

You changed Romans 13:9 say something totally different than what it actually says. You're being led by the idol shepherd Kenneth. The idol shepherd had his right eye put out, he can't see grace... even when it's written plainly in Romans 13:9. You have taken the grace of God (love your neighbor fulfills the law) and changed it into law keeping.

No I did not change it to say something completely different..............

If you love, will you covet anothers belongings? No

If you love, will you commit adultery? No

If you love, will you steal from others? No

If you love, will you lie about another? No

And if you love, will you disobey any other commandments given by the Lord? No

This is why Jesus and Paul says love fulfills the law, because as verse 10 that you did not mention, says love will do no wrong. Which is why it fulfills the law, as there is no way to transgress the law (sin) if you are walking in love.

Even Paul said in another place we do not abolish or void the law, we establish it;
Romans 3:31........


New International Version
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

New Living Translation
Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

English Standard Version
Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

New American Standard Bible
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

King James Bible
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Do we then cancel the law through faith? Absolutely not! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

International Standard Version
Do we, then, abolish the Law by this faith? Of course not! Instead, we uphold the Law.

NET Bible
Do we then nullify the law through faith? Absolutely not! Instead we uphold the law.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Are we eliminating The Written Law by faith? God forbid, but we are establishing The Written Law.

 

[JaumeJ]

Someone here is moved by the HOly Spirit, and it is wonderful I am disallowed to add to the rep, but the desire is there. God bless you always...amen.

 

[kennethcadwell]

By your refusal to answer the question put, you acknowledge when Paul says the Christian is not under law, nowhere does he differentiate between the mosaic law and Ten commandments concerning that.

If the new covenant only hinged on one core point I would agree with you, but it doesn't!

Yes the bible does differentiate between the Mosaic laws and God's moral laws.
If one reads they easily see how all the 613 Mosaic laws do not apply under the new covenant, but then they will also see how the 10 commandments of God that are called the moral laws are upheld with in the NT. And I did answer your question in the past, but I guess you just didn't like the answer. The bible says those who are in Christ walk by the Spirit, and not by the flesh. Therefore walking in the Spirit one is not under the law because walking in love will not transgress His teachings and commands, for love does not wrong therefore does not need to fear the outcome of sin which is death.

 

[Stephen63]

Is Hebrews really that clear to you?

Hebrews 6:1-8 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: [SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10:26-31 (KJV) [SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

WE here is the church...... EVERY epistle is to the church about the church. This is written so plainly, there's no room to variate from it...... but it will either overlooked or twisted, I'm sure.

Actually, You and your cronies that believe you can lose your salvation should be terrified at the verse you quote above.....by that verse alone...if you can lose your salvation....it is IMPOSSIBLE TO GET BACK....funny thing...those who claim you can lose it, will say you keep it by works yet...they never sin enough to lose it and ALWAYS, 100 percent of the time WALK perfect and upright before the LORD doing ALL that is required........such hypocrisy.........

I thank God I am not like that low life sinner over there..............!

Really? Hypocrisy? Where's your scriptures? I notice you & your "little group" aren't using multiple scriptures to prove your points.....not very professional to create a whole doctrine out of a verse or two. All I really see is accusations & name-calling. See how many real christians will believe that.

 

[michael56]

Do we then nullify the law through this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ, not obedience to the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom 3:31

You have to read the preceeding ten verses to understand Paul is saying that by dying to a law of righteousness, we uphold the law. That is very different from preaching a righteousness of obedience to the Ten Commandments. If you say you are cast into the lake of fire if you fail to keep the Ten Commandments, that places you under a law of righteousness, and therefore verse 31 is not applicable to such a view

Note, Paul was not saying the law would be perfectly upheld

 

[dcontroversal]

Really? Hypocrisy? Where's your scriptures? I notice you & your "little group" aren't using multiple scriptures to prove your points.....not very professional to create a whole doctrine out of a verse or two. All I really see is accusations & name-calling. See how many real christians will believe that.

So you think your verses out of context make you right? Keep trusting yourself, your works and religious dogma....I will gladly wait to see who makes it and who doesn't.......!

 

[michael56]

Really? Hypocrisy? Where's your scriptures? I notice you & your "little group" aren't using multiple scriptures to prove your points.....not very professional to create a whole doctrine out of a verse or two. All I really see is accusations & name-calling. See how many real christians will believe that.

Are you a Pentecostal?

 

[Stephen63]

You mean we can't possibly gain salvation by grace thru faith & then lose it by sinning (works)?

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened (saved), who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

​

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

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2 Peter 2:20-22​

ESV
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

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Ezekiel 18:24-26​

ESV
But when a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice and does the same abominations that the wicked person does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds that he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, for them he shall die. “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not just.’ Hear now, O house of Israel: Is my way not just? Is it not your ways that are not just? When a righteous person turns away from his righteousness and does injustice, he shall die for it; for the injustice that he has done he shall die.

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Hebrews 10:26-28​

ESV
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.
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1 John 2:3-6 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. [SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

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Romans 11:22 ESV
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.

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Romans 2:6-8​

ESV
He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

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Revelation 2:4-7​

ESV
But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first. Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. Yet this you have: you hate the works of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’

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Hebrews 6:1-6 (KJV) [SUP]1 [/SUP]Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

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John 3:36​

ESV
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.​

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Matthew 24:13​

ESV
But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

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Revelation 22:19​

ESV
And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

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2 Peter 2:21​

ESV
For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

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Hebrews 3:7-15​

ESV
Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart; they have not known my ways.’ As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’” ...

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Luke 6:46​

ESV
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

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Matthew 16:27​

ESV
For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.
​

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Revelation 3:15-16​

ESV
“‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.

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Jude 1:3-6 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. [SUP]5 [/SUP]I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

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Ephesians 2:10​

ESV
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
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John 15:2 ESV
Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

That's a lot of pages to tear outta your Bible to get rid of OSAS evidence. (and this wuz just a quick internet search)

​

I heard a sermon once by a minister. He said that 85% of ''Evangelicals/charasmatics'' did not have a proper understanding of the doctrine of justification. Having been brought up in such churches I was interested in what he said. Upon reflection I would probably agree with him. It is a tragic thing to me, that so many of the churches that believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today, and term themselves ''born again'' can stumble in understanding at the very core of the Christian faith.

Okkkkk...... we're supposed to be convinced by the witness of an unknown minister?

I'm beginning to believe you don't understand scripture at all 'cause it's written right above you plainly, & you missed it 'cause it "wasn't your doctrine". Go figure.

 

[michael56]

Okkkkk...... we're supposed to be convinced by the witness of an unknown minister?

I'm beginning to believe you don't understand scripture at all 'cause it's written right above you plainly, & you missed it 'cause it "wasn't your doctrine". Go figure.

I was brought up in a ''BORN AGAIN' church. I didn't understand the Gospel message of scripture when I was there. Can you believe it? The church prided itself it stood full square on scripture, and the other churches in the town needed to come to the church and accept the truth/. However, the minister never once said from the pulpit the Christian is not under a law of righteousness before God and that included the Ten Commandments. How can a church profess to stand full square on the Gospel and not preach that, it is the core of Paul's message of grace

 

[kennethcadwell]

Do we then nullify the law through this faith(a righteousness of faith in Christ, not obedience to the law) Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom 3:31

You have to read the preceeding ten verses to understand Paul is saying that by dying to a law of righteousness, we uphold the law. That is very different from preaching a righteousness of obedience to the Ten Commandments. If you say you are cast into the lake of fire if you fail to keep the Ten Commandments, that places you under a law of righteousness, and therefore verse 31 is not applicable to such a view

Note, Paul was not saying the law would be perfectly upheld

How do you not uphold the commandments if there is no obedience to the commands?
You can not because you have to obey the two greatest commands to love Him, and others first before you can even through faith have that love uphold the other commands. Paul says because we are not under the law do we do away with it through faith? He responds absolutely not, because through faith and walking in love we uphold them. This does not mean they are done away with, for love will not transgress His moral code to not steal, murder, adultery, and so on. You can not walk in love, and walk in sin both. For you can not serve two masters, either you obey sins unto death or you obey the righteousness of Lord unto eternal life.........The choice is ours who to obey !!!


Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Mitspa]

Okkkkk...... we're supposed to be convinced by the witness of an unknown minister?

I'm beginning to believe you don't understand scripture at all 'cause it's written right above you plainly, & you missed it 'cause it "wasn't your doctrine". Go figure.

1Ti 1:6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

 

[michael56]

How do you not uphold the commandments if there is no obedience to the commands?
You can not because you have to obey the two greatest commands to love Him, and others first before you can even through faith have that love uphold the other commands. Paul says because we are not under the law do we do away with it through faith? He responds absolutely not, because through faith and walking in love we uphold them. This does not mean they are done away with, for love will not transgress His moral code to not steal, murder, adultery, and so on. You can not walk in love, and walk in sin both. For you can not serve two masters, either you obey sins unto death or you obey the righteousness of Lord unto eternal life.........The choice is ours who to obey !!!


Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Matthew 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

For the new covenant explained you have to read beyond the Gospels:

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:12&13

 

[kennethcadwell]

I was brought up in a ''BORN AGAIN' church. I didn't understand the Gospel message of scripture when I was there. Can you believe it? The church prided itself it stood full square on scripture, and the other churches in the town needed to come to the church and accept the truth/. However, the minister never once said from the pulpit the Christian is not under a law of righteousness before God and that included the Ten Commandments. How can a church profess to stand full square on the Gospel and not preach that, it is the core of Paul's message of grace

That is not the core preaching of Paul's.
He said walking in love upholds and establishes the commandments of God, not does away with them.
This is a misteaching of the scriptures that say not under the law, and done away with in the written ordinance form. Only the written form contained with ordinances were done away with, and not the moral aspect of the 10 commandments that are upheld by walking in love. Remember the law is there for those who transgress it, therefore if you are still committing sin then you are under the law because you are transgressing it. The law is not for those who walk properly in the faith because love does no wrong. This is Paul's core teaching...............

 

[michael56]

That is not the core preaching of Paul's.
He said walking in love upholds and establishes the commandments of God, not does away with them.
This is a misteaching of the scriptures that say not under the law, and done away with in the written ordinance form. Only the written form contained with ordinances were done away with, and not the moral aspect of the 10 commandments that are upheld by walking in love. Remember the law is there for those who transgress it, therefore if you are still committing sin then you are under the law because you are transgressing it. The law is not for those who walk properly in the faith because love does no wrong. This is Paul's core teaching...............

So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[SUP][a][/SUP] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. Rom 7:4-6

Which law is Paul speaking of in the above?

He trells us in the following verses:

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet(one of the Ten Commandments).”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 7-11

The bible needs to be your bottom line, do not lean on your own understanding, or on a ministers own understanding when it conflicts with scripture

 

[kennethcadwell]

For the new covenant explained you have to read beyond the Gospels:

I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth John 16:12&13

Yes and it was the Holy Spirit that guided Paul to give the meat of the word that the Apostles were not yet ready to bear.

If a person is still struggling with keeping the teachings of the Lord in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John which is the milk of the word. Then they are not ready to handle the meat of the word the Holy Spirit gave through Paul. You must first do the milk of the word, or a person will choke on the meat and not be able to follow it.
This is called maturing in the faith in our walk, you can not just take and try and understand the meat if you still struggle with the milk.

The bible says in Jesus words;

You have to repent of sins, you have to be baptized, you have to be born again, you have to forgive others, you have keep you confession in Him, and you have to purge your life of sins and walk in love..............

If you are still struggling with any of this that comes from the Lord, or are even taught you do not have to do any of these. Leave that church and not listen to that preacher are they are not Spirit lead, and are denying Christ by denying His words. If you are in this position then you are not ready to bear the meat yet as you are still weak in the faith, but the good news is there is time to grow.

 

[michael56]

If a person is still struggling with keeping the teachings of the Lord in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John which is the milk of the word[/B].

It's so easy to just ream pat statements off the top of your head isn't it!

I wonder how many people on cc would boldly state they obey all of the literal commands of Christ in the Gospels and have therefore got past the milk of the word.

You epitomise the problem Kenneth, pat statements that are not the reality don't help anyone. I should know, I grew up with them.