question about submission

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GaryA

Guest
#61
No I have not been brainwashed by feminism. PoetMary said it best when she explained what feminism was so I don't need to repeat that. Anyway I have just had too many guys use that verse on me like "oh when we get married you have to do whatever I say" one even went so far as to say that he was gonna chain his wife to a fence. I am not in a relationship with these....idiots anymore but the fact that they used the Bible in that way against me both confused, scared and hurt me.

There were multiple other woman-shaming issues I have had with guys but I'm not gonna go in to that. They were mainly kitchen jokes and this one guy asked me if there was anything good about being a woman. He listed everything that was good about being a man and asked if I could name one good thing about being a woman and I couldn't..at least not at the time. At the time I hated myself for being a woman but that's another long story.
Here's the story it actually relates now that I think about it:

I kept hearing guys be like "women have to submit" and I hated myself for being a woman because I thought my existence was some cruel joke that God played on me. Why did he give me a brain if I was just meant to follow orders from my future husband? All the kitchen jokes I was hearing just re-enforced this. I HATED MYSELF because I was a woman and I hated God for creating me as a woman. For creating me as a second class citizen. Does this make sense?

Well I stopped hating myself and my gender and I think I am getting a better handle on the whole submission thing (see post #1) however I can't believe that women were created to submit to their husbands and their husbands have all this authority and can do whatever they want just because they are a man. Some of the verses that have been quoted in this thread have been used to severely hurt me and damage my relationship with God. So please think before you post and think about how it could be misinterpreted.

The Bible isn't bad, it's just how we interpret it. We can either use the Bible for good or for evil.

And those are my thoughts on that.
JF, honey - you are just confused. You have most assuredly been "affected" by modern-day feminism. You are "mixing up" what the Bible says with what the world ( Satan ) is telling you. ( Which is exactly what Satan wants. )

You just need to find you a good man who truly knows how to treat a lady... :cool:

I'm sorry that your experience has been as you have described -- the guys with whom you have had these past relationships ( as you describe ) have selfishness in their hearts and not love.

Hang in there! And, do not fear what God has prescribed in His Word. Doing things God's way is always better. Remember this always. Follow His prescription even if you do not fully understand it. This is what faith in God is all about. In time, you will understand it better.

:)
 
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GaryA

Guest
#62
There's no substitute for experience in the natural order.
The idea that experience is the ONLY route to knowledge and insight is not accurate.
I do not believe that is what Elin meant.

I do not believe that she even implied what you are suggesting.

I think you missed the point.

:)
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,093
1,756
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#63
I kept hearing guys be like "women have to submit" and I hated myself for being a woman because I thought my existence was some cruel joke that God played on me. Why did he give me a brain if I was just meant to follow orders from my future husband?
If God wants you to submit to your husband, why would that mean you were any less valuable than a man or that you would not need to use your brain?

Someone said you may have been 'brainwashed' by Feminism. 'Brainwash' is a strong word. American females are, for the most part, indoctrinated with certain aspects of Feminist thought through school and the media. If you had grown up where all women accepted the idea of wives submitting to their husbands and had seen several examples of men caring for and protecting their wives, the idea may have seemed more natural to you and you may have embraced it easily. My guess is the reason you find the idea distasteful is partly because you've been taught other things that conflict with the Biblical concept of wives submitting to their husbands in marriage.

There are a couple of blogs related to this issue. One is The Peaceful Wife. She's married to a blogger (not as active as she is) the Respected Husband. April, the wife, has several videos up sharing her testimony about how she used to pay lip service the idea of a wife submitting to her husband, but she became convicted for not actually doing so and for not respecting her husband. She shares about how she repented and the benefits and blessings this as been in her life. It might benefit you to watch her videos on YouTube and listen to her perspective on how it was good for her to embrace submitting to her husband and how it has helped her as a person and their marriage.

All the kitchen jokes I was hearing just re-enforced this. I HATED MYSELF because I was a woman and I hated God for creating me as a woman. For creating me as a second class citizen. Does this make sense?
My wife is from Indonesia. She says if an Indonesian woman says she can't cook, she's embarrassed because a woman is supposed to cook. Indonesian women who can cook well can find quite a sense of accomplishment in it. I like parties where they are all trying to cook their best food. (It seems like that trend has stopped at the most recent get-togethers I've attended.) My wife really enjoys cooking and making good food. Cooking is not a bad thing. It's good to be a good cook. Is there some reason you think cooking in the kitchen is a bad thing?

Have you had boyfriends who said "Go make me a sammich", thinking that was funny?


Well I stopped hating myself and my gender and I think I am getting a better handle on the whole submission thing (see post #1)
I'm glad some of us are men and some of us are women. The world would be a much less interesting and enjoyable place life were all men. Our species would die out quickly a well. If everyone was a woman, there would be the same problem. We should all be happy with what gender God has made us.

however I can't believe that women were created to submit to their husbands and their husbands have all this authority and can do whatever they want just because they are a man.
Women are just told to submit to their husbands. Men are told to love their wives like Christ loved the church. Which one is a heavier burden? Jesus was beaten, tortured with a crown of thorns, and crucified on a cross. He laid down His life. We are supposed to love our wives that much. Can you really say the wife has the heavier responsibility? Men are responsible before God for our role as head in the marriage and how we treat our wives. Wives are responsible to submit to their husbands.

We are all servants of God. A good servant does what his master wants. If the master says do the dishes and mop the floor and the servant says, "I don't like washing dishes or mopping the floor. I'm going to spend the day working in the garden, when the master returns home, trudges across the sticky floor to see a sink full of dirty dishes, he's no going to be pleased. We are supposed to do the Lord's will and we should take joy in it and do it with a good attitude.

There were multiple other woman-shaming issues I have had with guys but I'm not gonna go in to that. They were mainly kitchen jokes and this one guy asked me if there was anything good about being a woman. He listed everything that was good about being a man and asked if I could name one good thing about being a woman and I couldn't..at least not at the time.
I have to admit to being happy to be a man. I went to an event yesterday and saw the line for the women's bathroom. But I guess it all balances out. I hear women's bathrooms have nice stuff like couches, mirrors, soap, and toilet paper, and that they actually clean them. :)

But women should be happy to be women. I see by your personal data below your username that you are 20 years old. So I suspect you are talking about conversations with very young men, possibly some teenagers. Boys that age can be very immature. Having conversation about boys being better than girls sounds like elementary school playground conversation.

By the way, there are a lot of advantages to being a woman. If you marry a decent guy who is somewhat chivalrous, men can do a lot of nice things for women. If it's too hot or cold outside, who goes outside to get something out of the car: the husband. If the car gets stuck in a one food flood, whose going to get out to carry their spouse to dry land? The husband of course. A man could decide to be Mr. Mom while his wife works, but he's just might face a bit of scorn or teasing from his fellow men. It's much more acceptable for a mom to stay home with her kids. That may not mean much now, but wait until you get married and have a baby and then imagine the idea of leaving that baby in a day care center.

I could say not giving birth to children is an advantage of men. Some women say that giving birth to a child creates this intimate bond with the baby. So does nursing. These are female things. Women are also designed to give birth and nurse babies. Even if you like the idea of being I charge or sharing equal authority in the home, there are some things you may be designed for that you don't exactly appreciate. Some women who submit to their husbands are happy that they let their husbands take the responsibility of decision making for the family. Some of those who have been controlling in the past let it go find more peace in submitting and not trying to control their husbands or the family.
 
Nov 25, 2014
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#64
By the way, there are a lot of advantages to being a woman. If you marry a decent guy who is somewhat chivalrous, men can do a lot of nice things for women. If it's too hot or cold outside, who goes outside to get something out of the car: the husband. If the car gets stuck in a one food flood, whose going to get out to carry their spouse to dry land? The husband of course. A man could decide to be Mr. Mom while his wife works, but he's just might face a bit of scorn or teasing from his fellow men. It's much more acceptable for a mom to stay home with her kids. That may not mean much now, but wait until you get married and have a baby and then imagine the idea of leaving that baby in a day care center.

I could say not giving birth to children is an advantage of men. Some women say that giving birth to a child creates this intimate bond with the baby. So does nursing. These are female things. Women are also designed to give birth and nurse babies. Even if you like the idea of being I charge or sharing equal authority in the home, there are some things you may be designed for that you don't exactly appreciate. Some women who submit to their husbands are happy that they let their husbands take the responsibility of decision making for the family. Some of those who have been controlling in the past let it go find more peace in submitting and not trying to control their husbands or the family.
I find it interesting that all the advantages to being a woman listed here revolve around marrying a man and bearing children.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
2,952
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#65
I find it interesting that all the advantages to being a woman listed here revolve around marrying a man and bearing children.

I also love the way feminism is tossed around as another plot of Satan to undermine the world. I did a big thread on this one last year, of feminists who changed the world, including the medical system, the vote for women, education and generally improving the rights of children, the poor, and the hurting and working to prevent abuse, and thousands of other issues. And yes, I know modern feminists promote abortion, which badly hurts the other work they have done. Never a time or reason to justify abortion.

Women can do a lot more than being mothers and wives. And still be good wives and mothers.

When I see this kind of attitude towards women it makes me realize how far the Christian church has to go, to illustrate with what Paul said in Galatians.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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#66
The wife is to submit to the head of the marriage, and women are not to have authority over men in the church; i.e, preaching, teaching men, or elders of the church.
I agree with the blue, but about the rest... Okay, so as men are present here, what if they learn something from you, because you expound on the Bible and how it should be understood? Did you not kill your own words because you taught a man?

Woman is to submit to her husband and be in one accord with him - amen. The verses claimed to say that women should submit to all men though are ripped out of context that is about husbands and wives. Women shouldnt lord over men, but that goes for every Christian, anyways. If my husband teaches the truth and I'm defined as his helper by God, nothing wrong in me teaching in one accord and under his authority with him (not in contradiction, not against how he taught me at home), just like Priscilla and Aquilla did in the Bible. But according to some interpretations here, Priscilla did wrong? Or just like the Bride-church and Jesus, we are His helper, the Bride and should be teaching under His authority, aka what we received from Him in submission. So submission is not to shut up and not exist. The Christ and the Church are always the model to look to.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#67
Hoorah! Finally..someone gets it!!!!!!
 
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GaryA

Guest
#68
JF, honey - the "roles" that God has given to the Husband and to the Wife balance beautifully - if they are properly followed according to the Word of God.

You have to look at it God's way - not the world's way.

Your fears are exaggerated because the world has convinced you that the Bible is saying things it does not actually say.

A good example:

The Bible in no way says that the wife should submit to the husband because she is inferior. The "attachment" of the idea of the woman being "inferior" to the idea of the husband being the head of the wife comes from the world - not the Bible.

The world wants you to "connect" these two ideas to keep you from properly understanding God's view...

"Women are emotional creatures..."

Connecting these two ideas together in the mind of a woman is likely to drive her ( emotionally ) to reject the first idea ( submission ) because of the second ( inferiority ).

The Bible does not connect these two things. Only the world does that.

As for using your brain...

Read Proverbs 31:10-31.

Does the woman described seem to be using her brain? Of course!



Please be careful to not listen to the world. Listen only to God. ( through His Word )

The world will lead you into trouble...

God will lead you to where He wants you to be.

The closer to God you are, the more happy you will be...

Do everything God's way - even if you do not fully understand it.

More joy and happiness may be had when we follow what God wants us to do.

This includes fulfilling the "roles" that He has set forth for a husband and a wife to follow.

Believe it!

:)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
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#69
So I was reading this book and it explained how after the verses about wives submitting and husbands loving there's a verse that says, "husbands and wives must submit to one another as is fitting to the Lord." (I think I got that right.) Well this book says that husbands and wives are to submit to eacother based on that verse. Also it explained that submission is an act of free will. I never heard it explained that way. What are your thoughts on this? I don't think it's saying the man isn't the head I just think it's saying that 1) submission is not shameful and 2) submission is not just for a woman to do. Thoughts?
Submission just comes naturally when you find the man who loves you AS JESUS LOVED THE CHURCH, sweetie. It comes really easily and that's a covenant of love that comes second only to God. You'll want to follow into his footsteps because you will be best and closest friends and he follows after Jesus. You serve one another as God gifts and leads you in your areas. Pray to be given a Bible-believing disciple of Jesus and you will be very happy.

It's important what is underlined there. As is fitting to the Lord. It means that you should not be physically abused, treated like a dishrag, disrespected, yelled at, abused by a control freak, or anything in that spirit.
 
F

F8fl1

Guest
#70
Hmm. "Equal" does not mean "identical" it means we are not the same, God engineered us differently to be complimentary, not adversarial. despite much wishful thinking from some psychologists the differences are real, but beautiful, and we are fools if we dont appreciate what the other gender has to offer
 

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#71
My wife is from Indonesia. She says if an Indonesian woman says she can't cook, she's embarrassed because a woman is supposed to cook. Indonesian women who can cook well can find quite a sense of accomplishment in it. I like parties where they are all trying to cook their best food. (It seems like that trend has stopped at the most recent get-togethers I've attended.) My wife really enjoys cooking and making good food. Cooking is not a bad thing. It's good to be a good cook. Is there some reason you think cooking in the kitchen is a bad thing?

Have you had boyfriends who said "Go make me a sammich", thinking that was funny?

The idea of cooking isn't a bad thing. I make food for my bf all the time and he's a total gentleman about it. However he never demands food and he NEVER makes jokes about me making him a "sammich". He is also kind enough to help with the clean-up. So cooking is not the issue, it's the guys attitude about it. I also do not make him food because it is my role as a woman (he has made me food before) I make it for him because I genuinely care for him.

I have to admit to being happy to be a man. I went to an event yesterday and saw the line for the women's bathroom. But I guess it all balances out. I hear women's bathrooms have nice stuff like couches, mirrors, soap, and toilet paper, and that they actually clean them.

Clean bathrooms are nice but the waits can be AWFUL. lol

But women should be happy to be women. I see by your personal data below your username that you are 20 years old. So I suspect you are talking about conversations with very young men, possibly some teenagers. Boys that age can be very immature. Having conversation about boys being better than girls sounds like elementary school playground conversation.

These boys were VERY immature.

By the way, there are a lot of advantages to being a woman. If you marry a decent guy who is somewhat chivalrous, men can do a lot of nice things for women. If it's too hot or cold outside, who goes outside to get something out of the car: the husband. If the car gets stuck in a one food flood, whose going to get out to carry their spouse to dry land? The husband of course. A man could decide to be Mr. Mom while his wife works, but he's just might face a bit of scorn or teasing from his fellow men. It's much more acceptable for a mom to stay home with her kids. That may not mean much now, but wait until you get married and have a baby and then imagine the idea of leaving that baby in a day care center.

I could say not giving birth to children is an advantage of men. Some women say that giving birth to a child creates this intimate bond with the baby. So does nursing. These are female things. Women are also designed to give birth and nurse babies. Even if you like the idea of being I charge or sharing equal authority in the home, there are some things you may be designed for that you don't exactly appreciate. Some women who submit to their husbands are happy that they let their husbands take the responsibility of decision making for the family. Some of those who have been controlling in the past let it go find more peace in submitting and not trying to control their husbands or the family.

I think another part of it is there isn't much dignity in being a woman. Women who are stay-at-home moms can be seen as lazy or weak. The whole thing about women always in the kitchen is treated like an inferior position. Does that make sense?
 

JFSurvivor

Senior Member
Jan 20, 2015
1,184
25
0
#72
Does anyone know about Lydia in the Bible? She was a businesswoman who sold purple cloth and she invited Paul to stay with her. She didn't go and ask her husband first and what she did was taking a step of leadership in the community. How does this fit into the whole "wives submit to your husbands?"
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
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#73
Does anyone know about Lydia in the Bible? She was a businesswoman who sold purple cloth and she invited Paul to stay with her. She didn't go and ask her husband first and what she did was taking a step of leadership in the community. How does this fit into the whole "wives submit to your husbands?"
I can't see the Bible mentioning that she had a husband.

The wife should submit to her husband in a Godley fashion and nothing that Lydia did shows the contrary.
 

pem

Banned
Mar 13, 2015
207
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#74
Does anyone know about Lydia in the Bible? She was a businesswoman who sold purple cloth and she invited Paul to stay with her. She didn't go and ask her husband first and what she did was taking a step of leadership in the community. How does this fit into the whole "wives submit to your husbands?"
As Christ is the Head of The Body (aka church ,israel, vine , flock etc etc ) , so the Christian man is the head of the family. Notice that this is for Christians who will not abuse their position or partners . A Christian wife is as happy in her lot as Christian husband should be . If the Christian husband is a spiritually discerning man , his wife will be more than happy to oblige her husband.
I fear the "submission" part is taken out of context and those uneducated in Biblical Doctrine abuse this word to the extremes .
 
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GaryA

Guest
#75
I think another part of it is there isn't much dignity in being a woman. Women who are stay-at-home moms can be seen as lazy or weak. The whole thing about women always in the kitchen is treated like an inferior position. Does that make sense?
"Are you kidding...???" :confused:

Again - your thinking is being "affected" by modern feminism. There is no greater honor for a woman than to be a Godly Wife and Mother, who takes care of her family and home. Satan would like for you to believe differently!

Go read Proverbs 31:10-31 again. Does this sound like a woman with no dignity and no honor?


Proverbs 31:

[SUP]10[/SUP] Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.



God bestows great honor upon a woman like this.


JF, honey - you are not seeing it from God's perspective. Stop looking for "support" for modern feminism in the Bible. Look for God's perspective. He has it right. Modern feminism has it wrong.

"I promise, you will do far better if you do things God's way."

:)
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#76
Does anyone know about Lydia in the Bible? She was a businesswoman who sold purple cloth and she invited Paul to stay with her. She didn't go and ask her husband first and what she did was taking a step of leadership in the community. How does this fit into the whole "wives submit to your husbands?"
She might have been a widow, or never married. Widows are only under God's authority, and virgins are under their father's authority as long as they are under his roof and eat his bread.

Besides, I dont ask my husband for every thing, because for a lot of things I already know he approves so there's no need for specifically asking. Lydia's husband might have been a very hospitable godly man, and she acted in agreement with him, knowing he would say "of course, bring them in!" if she asked. Although it's more likely that she was not married or a widow.

Women in Israel had a lot of rights, of course she could work and step into business area, same like the righteous woman from Proverbs who sold her crafted merchandise. And if she had a husband, I'm sure that it didnt hurt his pride that she was successful, he was rather proud of her and praised her, and they had mutual respect in their marriage.

I think you keep confusing Christian marriage with Muslim marriage Sis.
 
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psychomom

Guest
#77
I think another part of it is there isn't much dignity in being a woman. Women who are stay-at-home moms can be seen as lazy or weak. The whole thing about women always in the kitchen is treated like an inferior position. Does that make sense?
i s'pose it makes sense, if you've never done it. :)

whom do you know who perceives stay at home moms as lazy and weak?
maybe dignity is what you make it? or better, what the Lord Jesus makes it.
i mean, there is dignity in ditch digging, if you work at it faithfully as unto the Lord, right?
 

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2014
4,889
2,534
113
#78

I think another part of it is there isn't much dignity in being a woman. Women who are stay-at-home moms can be seen as lazy or weak. The whole thing about women always in the kitchen is treated like an inferior position. Does that make sense?
Okay, hatred-filled feminists, as well as hatred-filled men who do that are both messed up, hope we can agree on that, to claim this about women is so ugly, just because they choose to devote their main portion of work to the needs of their family. This is going to be a little longer post so forgive my rambling :)

I'll first say something my husband says. The woman was not supposed to have to work. Having to work is a curse from Adam after the fall. She was to be a helper to Adam, not carry the whole workload.

In Israelite society with God's goverment, a woman could do craftsmanship and deal in business, if she wanted to, because you didnt have factories and all work was home-based, with visits to the market to sell merchandise. We see examples that the woman from Proverbs 31 "worketh willingly with her hands", then the businesswoman Lydia. But the woman did not have to go work, just do some housework to help. Now, this my observation, thanks to the feminists the society has changed so much that now, we the women all pretty much have to get up from Monday to Friday, some even more, and deal with Babylon. It's not a choice anymore. When you examine the two orders, the first one gives you choice and freedom, the modern one limits you. The devil made factories to strip men, and even women, from their families most of their days and to make them toil in spiritual Egypt and Babylon, like the pharaoh.

Being at home is a privilege, not a limitation. You'll see this when you're elder, because now you're just in schooling, and probably didnt get to see yet how messed up people can get. Or did you not see it in school? Earlier, parents would basically homeschool, or hire a teacher for you if they were rich, and you would not be mistreated. In God's system, the woman gets to do all she wants, without being exposed to the world mess. Per example, you can be exposed to harassment at work of all kinds, but when you work from home and sell your goods on a market with your husband or parents, or online, you dont have to deal with that. In God's society model you work from home as much as you want to, if you want to... but the modern society is not designed for this because the foolish feminists demanded to share in the curse of Adam. Although we can still do it the Bible way and make our own businesses if we like. Not saying anybody is sinning by going to work, of course, God's intended way is just more convenient, that's all.

They said they wanted rights, but Biblically they already had these rights in a God-filled society. There were few things women in ancient Israel were limited in. They usually did not get featured in the prominent place, but their voice was heard. They sometimes did get a prominent place, too, as seen fit by God. Prophetess Deborah judged and led the whole nation.

Women couldnt go into military combat, per example, but isnt this reasonable? Godly men didnt want their women to die in combat or worse, be tortured and raped by the enemy. This is not to say women are cowards, they could be engaged directly in war in special cases as God leads and gives - like Jael, or Rahab. But are you sure you can stomach piercing an enemy's head with a tent nail like Jael, see what I'm saying? But she was strengthened by God for His purposes.

Women were educated in the temple just like everybody else. It was the pagan women that were being looked down upon in pagan societies (this kinda led them to rebel with all these mother goddess religions). Why rebel when you are treated right?

God basically gave them at least a week off each month for their periods to pretty much chill because they were set apart for ritual uncleanness, imagine that, no school, no work, like today - nobody cares if you're falling apart, you have to work and sometimes lift heavy stuff at work. God counted it as illness, "sick of her flowers", so they surely had the freedom to rest if they were in pain. Just giving this as one more example on how the modern system has no concern compared to God's system. It's just about making everyone toil, they dont really care about you or your rights, satan wants his pyramid to be built.

Even a woman doing a typically man's occupation in ancient Israel would probably have been unusual, but not unbiblical, if she enjoyed that activity. There's nothing in the Word to hold a woman from working typical man work, but simply why would a woman even want a job where she would, say, have to lift very heavy things, it's not just very hard on her, but also if she got pregnant she could lose the baby. There surely have been widowed men in ancient Israel. They had to take care of housework and raising children. It is possible, just not preferable, because women are naturally more apt with babies and have natural instinct with them and can nurse while a man cannot. In the same way, a widow had to do hard work like chop wood and work all day long, plus housework and her children. This is possible too, but it's not preferable. I think we all see why these cases are not preferable, and that two is better than one and when the work is being naturally split, the man taking physically more demanding work and the woman helping him so he can rest at home when he is done, and eat a warm meal, and have some comfort in his day after his toil. This natural division of work is not in any way degrading for either side, it's done in love.

Woman taking care of housework and children does not mean a man wont touch a ladle or a cradle. Men of God cooked at times (Isaac, Ezekiel), and a mother cant be a father at the same time, so ideas of some worldly men how men shouldnt cook or take care of children, and how this is beneath them, are ridiculous. Why a man couldnt prepare a meal if he considers it fun or if his wife is ill is beyond me, there's nothing un-manly in it, and why should he not be a good father and spend proper time raising and teaching his children in the ways of God. The thing is godly men just have somewhat less time because they are following their calling to provide food and shelter for the family, that's all.

Feminists have stripped the woman out of the home in addition to the man, and now children get more and more influence from the world. The women were deceived, and this was the serpent's real agenda, to get to the children and expand the Adam's curse on Eve so Eve suffers the double portion now. They have added a burden and the world keeps adding them. You have to look perfect, you have to have a spotless house at all times, you have to have this or that, you have to be a Martha Stewart, you are worthless if you are stay-at-home mom so you have to go work in Babylon to prove your worth, and so forth. None of these burdens is coming from God, but from the world. God only requires you to love your neighbor and follow God and you're pretty much free within that scope. It's called freedom in Christ.

So what the feminists have actually done is to put all the burden on the weaker vessel, because they insisted that women are strong. Now women have this insane workload of having to go to work, and cook, and nurse children at home, and often all alone, because they say they dont need man. Or the roles are switched and man is made the woman's helper. Then they despise him for being stay-at-home dad, ditch him and go whore around. Because God's order is in-built into us, that a man should be the provider (this is Adam's obligation, a woman can join in and work if she likes, but this is not as a command to her; however, the man has been commanded so). Then these women despise him inwardly as time goes because he abides in their own mindset, and is not providing. Then you have men who are bitter and have pretty much Muslim ideas about submission of women, that's another extreme. So see, a lot of suffering and confusion has been made because men strayed from God's way.
 

iwant2serve

Senior Member
Apr 12, 2009
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#79
So I was reading this book and it explained how after the verses about wives submitting and husbands loving there's a verse that says, "husbands and wives must submit to one another as is fitting to the Lord." (I think I got that right.) Well this book says that husbands and wives are to submit to eacother based on that verse. Also it explained that submission is an act of free will. I never heard it explained that way. What are your thoughts on this? I don't think it's saying the man isn't the head I just think it's saying that 1) submission is not shameful and 2) submission is not just for a woman to do. Thoughts?
A lot of times the word submission is taken to mean dominion which the Bible does nat say that one person has dominion over another person. Forced submission is not done out of love, it's done out of selfishness. When the Bible says for the wife to be submissive to her own husband as unto the Lord it is saying, Give yourself to your husband as you would give yourself to me (the Lord), As one gives them selves to the Lord as their guide, provider, keeper, protector and so on. Husband love you wives as Christ loves the church. Care for her , nurturn her, protect her, wash her, cleanse her with your love for her. When this becomes more clear to marriage we will see families moving n the harmony of God.

As for both beign submissive to one another we have to understand that being a leader causes you to be submissive to thoes who you are over, remember Jesus said the higher you go the greater servant you become. A leader is always submissive to the needs of their followers.
 

Rachel20

Senior Member
May 7, 2013
1,639
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#80
I didn’t go through all of the posts in the thread and I don’t think I need to.

Based on some of the line of thinking the thread turned to, I just want to add -

A woman deciding to stay at home and look after her family is not to be disrespected but neither is a woman who decides she is strong and wants to go work.

All this talk of how the world was better in the Israelite times is really stupid.
If you don’t agree…

[Ecclesiastes 7:10

Say not, “Why were the former days better than these?” For it is not from wisdom that you ask this.
]


Women’s position in the OT was absolutely dreadful.

If raped, they could be married to the rapist.
If their husband died without having children, they were married off to his brother.

Not to mention the absolutely gross health conditions in those times.

Women having their periods probably had to go through so much - childbirth would have been even harder.
All these conditions made a woman truly weak.

In fact women didn’t have a much greater position than cattle.

She would have been treated like the property of a man.
A man could have many wives… your one husband could be out there gallivanting and romping around with many other women who you would have to compete for.


You have to be joking to try to sell this to young women of today that this was being liberating and equal.


Thank God that times have changed.



We live in a modern world where there is much more progressive thinking and technology.

People living 2000 years back could not have dreamed or even imagined some of the things we are capable of doing now.

Women themselves have brought upon some of these changes.

In these days and times, no one needs brute strength to achieve anything.

What is valued in people is their, talent and ability to solve problems that God has definitely given both men and women.

There is nothing today to stop a woman from achieving anything she wants.

If you are comfortable being a stay at home mom selling some stuff on E-bay, that is alright too.
However, there are women CEOS, women politicians and even women in the military. [Sheryl Sandberg is a billionaire] That is not wrong either.
God and even this world respects hard work and passion.

If you have a dream and you want to achieve whatever you want – go ahead and do it.
We are told to work hard. Not laze around.

Fear of workplaces, harassment or whatever is trivial.

Fear is not from God.

We can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
 
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