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B
There is something wrong with it, please see below.
Discussion should be commonplace, however, the bible clearly teaches elders that we should be aware that there are people who love strive and contention. These people constantly stir up dissagreement for the sake of stirring up disaggrememnt. There is no motive of seeking the truth, only to inflame and cause division. The world is abundantly clear about this condition existing and how we should deal with it.
As I've said before concerning this kind of thing, most of the people who post here to this bible study topic are more than learned enough to find the same answers I have. Do a simple topical study on strife, contention and division. I'd share scriptures but really, it is the holy spirit that reveals truth, so unless the holy spirit is dealing with you, it is a waste of time for me to try to brow beat you with scriptures to support my position.
Love one another. Red words.
Discussion should be commonplace, however, the bible clearly teaches elders that we should be aware that there are people who love strive and contention. These people constantly stir up dissagreement for the sake of stirring up disaggrememnt. There is no motive of seeking the truth, only to inflame and cause division. The world is abundantly clear about this condition existing and how we should deal with it.
As I've said before concerning this kind of thing, most of the people who post here to this bible study topic are more than learned enough to find the same answers I have. Do a simple topical study on strife, contention and division. I'd share scriptures but really, it is the holy spirit that reveals truth, so unless the holy spirit is dealing with you, it is a waste of time for me to try to brow beat you with scriptures to support my position.
Love one another. Red words.
You come on here, with a certain spirit, and say what you have to say about brow beating and those that cause contention and strife. You have read their posts and have determined this. Because they have posted with their avatar, name the ones that are causing the contention and strife you are referring to and let them have the opportunity to defend their position against your accusation. If you can't name them you should be quiet and keep it to yourself. That goes for you to Carpetmanswife. Is all of this too personal and does my post to you cause strife and contention in you?
To anyone,
Do you have the foresight, the wisdom and the intestinal fortitude to name those that are causing contention and strife and what that even means in your own mind and heart? So many of you don't even know the kind of salvation that God has given you, how can you know what contention and strife would even be. This poster 'watchmen' propagates so much error and a perverted gospel and has for months and many don't discern it and those that do remain quiet and let the error continue. What is being contended and what is the basis of the strife? Do you really know or are you afraid to say? If the words from the poster 'broken' comes from the Spirit that you agree with, then you have the liberty of the Spirit to speak the truth in love. No one is stopping you on this site from doing that.
Do you have the foresight, the wisdom and the intestinal fortitude to name those that are causing contention and strife and what that even means in your own mind and heart? So many of you don't even know the kind of salvation that God has given you, how can you know what contention and strife would even be. This poster 'watchmen' propagates so much error and a perverted gospel and has for months and many don't discern it and those that do remain quiet and let the error continue. What is being contended and what is the basis of the strife? Do you really know or are you afraid to say? If the words from the poster 'broken' comes from the Spirit that you agree with, then you have the liberty of the Spirit to speak the truth in love. No one is stopping you on this site from doing that.
B
No I don't believe in blanketing judgements. I also think that people deserve the same grace Christ gives me. Sometimes people (self included) resort to worldy kinds of relationships and responses due to their flesh. What I am talking about are humans that are motivated by strife and contention itself.
It's also not my job to call anyone out and accuse them. That's just not scriptually sound. As I said in my reply If you will take the time to do a modest word study on the subject you will clearly see how the bible says we should deal with it and how to identify them.
You see, I don't name names or give explicit instructions for two reasons. 1- it is not my job to convince any human of the truth in scripture. That is the job of the holy spirit. Truth is revealed by the word and best revealed when we read it ourselves. 2 - I have found no scriptural foundation for directly assulting individuals in a public forum where they cannot defend themselves. If there is one, I am perfectly willing to realign my beliefs.
I'm not targeting you BLC. I'm not targeting anyone, I am targeting the behavior and the spirit that causes division. Concerning the spirit from which I come, well if peace and unity are ungodly, heaven will be a not-so-great-place to be.
Note that at no point did I accuse you. I am not the accuser of the brethren - to the best of my knowledge neither are you.
No your words cause me no strife and no contention. Ministry opportunities in the past long taught me to be thick skinned concerning my brethren.
The fact is the bible deals with those who spread contention for the sake of spreading contention. The bible clearly illustrates who they are, how we should deal with them and the reward for their behavior.
All I am saying is that we should all be aware of this issue, and deal with it appropraitely of which it seems no one here is willing to do. Everyone just seems to want to be right. As for me, I've said my piece. Right or wrong, I'm done with this conversation. I'm not going to endlessly debate you, BLC, or anyone else on the issue. It is what I beleve to be true. I do not require your acceptance.
God Bless.
Love one another. Red Words.
It's also not my job to call anyone out and accuse them. That's just not scriptually sound. As I said in my reply If you will take the time to do a modest word study on the subject you will clearly see how the bible says we should deal with it and how to identify them.
You see, I don't name names or give explicit instructions for two reasons. 1- it is not my job to convince any human of the truth in scripture. That is the job of the holy spirit. Truth is revealed by the word and best revealed when we read it ourselves. 2 - I have found no scriptural foundation for directly assulting individuals in a public forum where they cannot defend themselves. If there is one, I am perfectly willing to realign my beliefs.
I'm not targeting you BLC. I'm not targeting anyone, I am targeting the behavior and the spirit that causes division. Concerning the spirit from which I come, well if peace and unity are ungodly, heaven will be a not-so-great-place to be.
Note that at no point did I accuse you. I am not the accuser of the brethren - to the best of my knowledge neither are you.
No your words cause me no strife and no contention. Ministry opportunities in the past long taught me to be thick skinned concerning my brethren.
The fact is the bible deals with those who spread contention for the sake of spreading contention. The bible clearly illustrates who they are, how we should deal with them and the reward for their behavior.
All I am saying is that we should all be aware of this issue, and deal with it appropraitely of which it seems no one here is willing to do. Everyone just seems to want to be right. As for me, I've said my piece. Right or wrong, I'm done with this conversation. I'm not going to endlessly debate you, BLC, or anyone else on the issue. It is what I beleve to be true. I do not require your acceptance.
God Bless.
Love one another. Red Words.
as I've said in previous posts... usually the forums where I had the strongest emotional response to the issues discussed were things in my life that I needed to deal with. pride causes this response and usually when I go back and re-read I cant understand why I had such a strong emotional response. We need to pray for discernment and truly look at those who are giving us our harshest response and really read what they are saying, perhaps the Holy Spirit is having us take notice for a reason.
In some forums the response is righteous anger because a post is absolutely contrary to Christ... to me a strong response is necessary to rebuke those posting in this Christian website who deny Christ. They will, however, know we are Christians by our Love so we should always keep this in mind in dealing with the individual personally. (hangs head in shame at some previous posts where I forgot this part...)
With respect to issues of living as a Christian in the world, usually my harsh response is about me not wanting to acknowledge the things that arent becoming to the Lord in my life. I'll end this with noting that I have learnt SO VERY MUCH from those on here who have elicited the strongest response from me... I'll name them: RoaringKitten, BLC, Swat4Christ, BaptistRW, Pastor Keith aka thaddaeus, & last but certainly not least Mahogany Snail. Thanks Guys for assisting in my knowledge & growth in the Lord & sometimes confusing me beyond belief (not saying I always agree with ya though.. lol) & I do consider them my friends in Christ along with my other beautiful CC friends. Marcia.
In some forums the response is righteous anger because a post is absolutely contrary to Christ... to me a strong response is necessary to rebuke those posting in this Christian website who deny Christ. They will, however, know we are Christians by our Love so we should always keep this in mind in dealing with the individual personally. (hangs head in shame at some previous posts where I forgot this part...)
With respect to issues of living as a Christian in the world, usually my harsh response is about me not wanting to acknowledge the things that arent becoming to the Lord in my life. I'll end this with noting that I have learnt SO VERY MUCH from those on here who have elicited the strongest response from me... I'll name them: RoaringKitten, BLC, Swat4Christ, BaptistRW, Pastor Keith aka thaddaeus, & last but certainly not least Mahogany Snail. Thanks Guys for assisting in my knowledge & growth in the Lord & sometimes confusing me beyond belief (not saying I always agree with ya though.. lol) & I do consider them my friends in Christ along with my other beautiful CC friends. Marcia.
Thanks for your reply and I am glad I have not offended you. I have no interest in personal debates with anyone. I am very concerned with what believers think and understand about the scriptures. We should be of one mind and of one faith and all rejoice in the truth. It is always best to avoid those that cause contention but when they come back and try to gain some with their perverted gospel, accuse the brethren or criticize others ministries that God has raised up, they really should be stopped. In my natural personality I wouldn't care and would just leave them to their own devices, but because of the effect it has on believers concerning their growth in grace and knowledge of Christ it has to be exposed no matter who it may offend. Those offended will only be for a short time because God will get a hold of their heart and bring them around to the truth. That is a promise from God and I can rest in it.
O
What is with all of these hostile arguments lately?
The bible is abundantly clear that foolish disputes that cause division or offense are not of God.. and that studying the Word and trying to find truth in it is supposed to be an act of edification for the body- not an act of destruction.
We are supposed to be one body under Christ.
"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Romans 12:5
I mean, do we really think that setting up verbal fist fights over Catholics v. Protestants, Pre-trib v. Post-trib, Tongues today v. No tongues today, is glorifying to God?
By all means if youre looking for truth, or attempting to edify the body thats fine. But the sarcasm, arrogance, and hostility with which so many write their words- completely abolishes any edifying factor the content of their message may have initially held.
"If anyone does not consent to wholesome words...he is proud, knowing nothing, but obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife.. from which withdraw yourself." 1 Timothy 6:3-6
I just don't understand why we are commanded to: (1) study the word, look for truth, and uplift one another with that, and also (2) remain a unified body and practive love towards one another despite disagreement... yet so many cannot accomplish the former without trampling the latter.
Nothing of eternal significance has ever happened apart from love.
...so say it in love love love love love.
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The bible is abundantly clear that foolish disputes that cause division or offense are not of God.. and that studying the Word and trying to find truth in it is supposed to be an act of edification for the body- not an act of destruction.
We are supposed to be one body under Christ.
"So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Romans 12:5
I mean, do we really think that setting up verbal fist fights over Catholics v. Protestants, Pre-trib v. Post-trib, Tongues today v. No tongues today, is glorifying to God?
By all means if youre looking for truth, or attempting to edify the body thats fine. But the sarcasm, arrogance, and hostility with which so many write their words- completely abolishes any edifying factor the content of their message may have initially held.
"If anyone does not consent to wholesome words...he is proud, knowing nothing, but obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife.. from which withdraw yourself." 1 Timothy 6:3-6
I just don't understand why we are commanded to: (1) study the word, look for truth, and uplift one another with that, and also (2) remain a unified body and practive love towards one another despite disagreement... yet so many cannot accomplish the former without trampling the latter.
Nothing of eternal significance has ever happened apart from love.
...so say it in love love love love love.
.
N
There is nothing wrong with passionate and vibrant discussion. It's ok if someone doesn't agree with you It shouldn't be taken personally if someone does passionately disagrees with you and vibrantly tells you why they think you're wrong.
It is wrong to make blatant personal attacks though. But it's not a personal attack if someone says something you merely disagree with.
It shouldn't be taken personally if someone does passionately disagrees with you and vibrantly tells you why they think you're wrong.It is wrong to make blatant personal attacks though. But it's not a personal attack if someone says something you merely disagree with.
Anyhow, I agree we should attempt to come together and reason together. Yet also agree that nothing is wrong with passionate discussion and disagreement.
Beloved... Merry Christmas!
G
I'm going to blast away at this, I guess.
I've found a long time ago (not that I am perfected in this) that when you get angry to shut your mouth and think very carefully what you are about to say and then speak it out word by word in very simple English, I almost always do this but not always and then I wined up nearly always sinning in what I say or how I say it.
In a discussion group people sometimes (I've done this before myself) will defend there point by picking at something else that has nothing to do with the point they want to prove or disprove, this mostly doesn't work but sometimes it might if people aren't paying attention. Even if it works it still accomplishes nothing because the truth presented has to hang on something that had nothing to do with what was being said. It also makes the point they try to prove less convincing to those discerning.
I find I present my point and say what I want to say and if it stands, then it stands and if it falls it falls and if someone else gets the last word and I have nothing else to say that can help, then I have nothing else to say and the reader can make there own conclusions on what sounds right.
People who are secure in what they believe will (should) refrain from name calling, that only shows they have not much confidence in what they are saying. Sometimes you do need to tell it like it is though and give it a definite name. Evil is one of those names.
I've found a long time ago (not that I am perfected in this) that when you get angry to shut your mouth and think very carefully what you are about to say and then speak it out word by word in very simple English, I almost always do this but not always and then I wined up nearly always sinning in what I say or how I say it.
In a discussion group people sometimes (I've done this before myself) will defend there point by picking at something else that has nothing to do with the point they want to prove or disprove, this mostly doesn't work but sometimes it might if people aren't paying attention. Even if it works it still accomplishes nothing because the truth presented has to hang on something that had nothing to do with what was being said. It also makes the point they try to prove less convincing to those discerning.
I find I present my point and say what I want to say and if it stands, then it stands and if it falls it falls and if someone else gets the last word and I have nothing else to say that can help, then I have nothing else to say and the reader can make there own conclusions on what sounds right.
People who are secure in what they believe will (should) refrain from name calling, that only shows they have not much confidence in what they are saying. Sometimes you do need to tell it like it is though and give it a definite name. Evil is one of those names.
C
The key is three-fold. One to recognise when a matter is an honest difference between two strong Christians--in which case we take care to treat the other with respect but pursue learning from one another. The second is to recognise when one of the parties is a new or weak believer, in which the stronger must treat the weaker with gentleness and grace. The third is to recognise when one of the parties is not a believer, in which you must discern when the discussion is fruitful and when it becomes fruitless. All of this should be done in love.
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