-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
OK hahah.....the list that is given and the things stated in Revelation alleviate the majority of views because there is only a few Nations/Cities on the earth that can meet the qualifications found within the list....does that help?
And really at the end of the day the word few bolded above means about 1 or 2
And really at the end of the day the word few bolded above means about 1 or 2
D
I did watch this at the time you guys were going back and forth with JesusIsTheChrist in that other thread a month or two back was it?
I keep stuff in the back of my mind between things but I have yet to make up my mind (as if being 100% convinced) on anything, Im really hard to convince of things though I would likely drive you insane.
So I am pretty open without a defensive stand on much but I remain cautious about biting into just anything at all.
I keep stuff in the back of my mind between things but I have yet to make up my mind (as if being 100% convinced) on anything, Im really hard to convince of things though I would likely drive you insane.
So I am pretty open without a defensive stand on much but I remain cautious about biting into just anything at all.
K
Yeah I just like how informative this person is that did the video, as not only do they use the Bible but they have done their background on history as well to line it up.
Like how this symbol has always been associated with the false system/antichrist
Then we have these scriptures from the bible;
Acts 19:34-35
34 But when they found out that he was a Jew, all with one voice cried out for about two hours, “Great is Diana of the Ephesians!”
35 And when the city clerk had quieted the crowd, he said: “Men of Ephesus, what man is there who does not know that the city of the Ephesians is temple guardian of the great goddess 8Diana, and of the image which fell down from 9Zeus?
Here is the kabba stone that fell from space that the Muslims worship;
D
Yeah I watched it Kenneth, and if I watch a handful of videos at Youtube a year now, thats really alot for me, yours made it, and I watched one of Skinskys today, I dont recall if there were others. There was one I tried to get through from someone else, some of them just drag on and on, I just dont have the attention span.
But then again I stuff with spooky music gets on my nerves too, I wish videos would stop with all that theatrical stuff, thats so embarrassing, cause my husband will be in the backround making the spooky music noises asking me, "what the heck you watching now"? LOL
(cringes)
But then again I stuff with spooky music gets on my nerves too, I wish videos would stop with all that theatrical stuff, thats so embarrassing, cause my husband will be in the backround making the spooky music noises asking me, "what the heck you watching now"? LOL
(cringes)
P
Exactly.
That is why the word is given equally to his BODY,us believers. We all have a part of the whole revelation. Oswald Chambers,Watchman Nee,and others have such a deep undertanding,and yet have missed it here and there.
The word SHOULD "jerk us straight". A plubline for all "private words,and dreams".
These dreams and visions are priceless when truly given from heaven. This is where your elders come in and help cull out the stuff with a bad "smell"
That is why the word is given equally to his BODY,us believers. We all have a part of the whole revelation. Oswald Chambers,Watchman Nee,and others have such a deep undertanding,and yet have missed it here and there.
The word SHOULD "jerk us straight". A plubline for all "private words,and dreams".
These dreams and visions are priceless when truly given from heaven. This is where your elders come in and help cull out the stuff with a bad "smell"
Daniel's Fourth Beast was Rome!!! Rome is in the past and it is not coming back to life as the final beast. John does not give the location of Rome when he discusses the Beast from the Sea. John makes clear again as I showed that his Beast from the Sea is from the Lion, Leopard, Bear region.
Daniel's Beasts were:
1. Babylon (Lion)
2. Medo Peria (Bear)
3. Leopard (Greece)
4. Rome
John recaps all the Beasts:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo Persia
5. Greece
6, Rome (the beast of John's day)
7. Ottoman Empire
8. Final Beast (from the Sea from same region as Beasts 3-5, Daniel's 1-3).
John never says that his final beast devours the whole earth, Daniel says that about his final (4th beast) which was Rome and which happened in the past. Perhaps that is why you think John's Beast is global because you have mistakenly thought it was the same as Daniel's beast?? Don't feel bad, it's a rookie mistake many make.
Daniel never tells us that his fourth beast is the last beast. He tells us it's different from the others and devours the whole earth. If you read on in Dan 7 you see that indeed, Rome is gone at the end and is replaced by 10 horns then another horn.
Dan 7:24-25:
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand...
The above is the end and agrees with Rev 13:2
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns...
Ten horns which arise from Rome. The last part of Rome to fall was the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire). It's headquarters was Constantinople named after Roman Emperor Constantine. The Ottomans defeated the last part of the Roman Empire around 1299 AD and took over modern day Turkey. Constantinople is now called Istanbul which is of course part of the Leopard region of the "Beast from the Sea."
The Beast that was, and is not, yet is the eighth is partly made up of Turkey. When the Ottoman Empire died in 1922 following WWI, it was the first time that one beast did not immediately transition to the next beast in the sequence. We've had nearly a 100 year break, hence, the 7th beast was, then was not, but will come back.
Is any of this getting through to you?
Daniel's Beasts were:
1. Babylon (Lion)
2. Medo Peria (Bear)
3. Leopard (Greece)
4. Rome
John recaps all the Beasts:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo Persia
5. Greece
6, Rome (the beast of John's day)
7. Ottoman Empire
8. Final Beast (from the Sea from same region as Beasts 3-5, Daniel's 1-3).
John never says that his final beast devours the whole earth, Daniel says that about his final (4th beast) which was Rome and which happened in the past. Perhaps that is why you think John's Beast is global because you have mistakenly thought it was the same as Daniel's beast?? Don't feel bad, it's a rookie mistake many make.
Daniel never tells us that his fourth beast is the last beast. He tells us it's different from the others and devours the whole earth. If you read on in Dan 7 you see that indeed, Rome is gone at the end and is replaced by 10 horns then another horn.
Dan 7:24-25:
The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand...
The above is the end and agrees with Rev 13:2
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns...
Ten horns which arise from Rome. The last part of Rome to fall was the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine Empire). It's headquarters was Constantinople named after Roman Emperor Constantine. The Ottomans defeated the last part of the Roman Empire around 1299 AD and took over modern day Turkey. Constantinople is now called Istanbul which is of course part of the Leopard region of the "Beast from the Sea."
The Beast that was, and is not, yet is the eighth is partly made up of Turkey. When the Ottoman Empire died in 1922 following WWI, it was the first time that one beast did not immediately transition to the next beast in the sequence. We've had nearly a 100 year break, hence, the 7th beast was, then was not, but will come back.
Is any of this getting through to you?
Last edited:
The focus from the start has always been around Israel and Jerusalem and the surrounding nations. But he is implying this.....
Plainword said "Once you understand that the "SEA" is the Northern Islamic Group and that the "Earth" is the Southern Islamic Groups then you can understand that we are talking about a regional conflict which does spill over in the form of terrorism, but most of Revelation is regional. The Earth is NOT the whole world. Daniel discusses the King of the North and South which John calls "Sea" and "Earth" in Rev 13. The North (SEA) wishes to impose its radical form of Islam on the moderates to the South (Earth).
[ end quote]
The sea in scripture is usually symbolic of "all nations, peoples and tongues"= many waters= global... not just the middle east area.
Plainword said "Once you understand that the "SEA" is the Northern Islamic Group and that the "Earth" is the Southern Islamic Groups then you can understand that we are talking about a regional conflict which does spill over in the form of terrorism, but most of Revelation is regional. The Earth is NOT the whole world. Daniel discusses the King of the North and South which John calls "Sea" and "Earth" in Rev 13. The North (SEA) wishes to impose its radical form of Islam on the moderates to the South (Earth).
[ end quote]
The sea in scripture is usually symbolic of "all nations, peoples and tongues"= many waters= global... not just the middle east area.
WRONG, WRONG, and WRONG Again. The Sea is NOT all people. The Sea is defined by Daniel as the Great Sea AKA the Mediterranean Sea. John clearly is familiar with Daniel and is simply using the same terminology Daniel used when he uses the word, "Sea" in Revelation.
Read Daniel as he defines what the "sea" is and he even refers to his four beasts as beasts from the sea. Did these 4 beast nations literally come up from the sea? Of course not!!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And four great beasts came up from the sea, each different from the other....
The Great Sea is what again? Where is Rome? Where is Syria? Babylon stretched to the Med also and so did Medo Persia after it conquered Babylon. Now compare the above to John's use of the same imagery in Rev 13:
And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion.
Thus, the "SEA" as used by Daniel and John is NOT the whole sea or the oceans of the world. Thus when Satan is thrown out of heaven once and for all and the below warning is given, John is again referring to the specific "sea region" and not all the oceans of the world.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”
The devil is not coming down to kill all the fish in the world's oceans. The devil has nothing against sea life. Instead, he is going to kill 1/3 of the inhabitants of the "Sea" Region of the middle east - the precise region where all the killing is taking place now.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
You will see, and are seeing the start of this now. But it is going to get a whole lot worse over there soon. Satan has no problems killing those Muslims who do his bidding. Satan is a murderer and we know where those Islamic killers are going.
Death, and Hades followed with him (the Green Horse).
If there is any more doubt about the identity of Babylon, look at Jer 50. He describes the war between the North and South Muslims just like Ezekiel, Daniel and John do.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Behold, a people shall come from the north,
And a great nation and many kings
Shall be raised up from the ends of the earth.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]They shall hold the bow and the lance;
They are cruel and shall not show mercy.
Their voice shall roar like the sea;
They shall ride on horses,
Set in array, like a man for the battle,
Against you, O daughter of Babylon (Saudi Arabia).
[SUP]43 [/SUP]“The king of Babylon (Saudi Arabia) has heard the report about them,
And his hands grow feeble;
Anguish has taken hold of him,
Pangs as of a woman in childbirth.
“Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the floodplain of the Jordan
Against the dwelling place of the strong...
He shall come up from the flood plain of the Jordan? Pretty specific location, between the North and South and if you want to avoid Israel, it is the best way to come if you are Iran and you want to attack your enemy Saudi Arabia by land.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]“Behold, a people shall come from the north,
And a great nation and many kings
Shall be raised up from the ends of the earth.
[SUP]42 [/SUP]They shall hold the bow and the lance;
They are cruel and shall not show mercy.
Their voice shall roar like the sea;
They shall ride on horses,
Set in array, like a man for the battle,
Against you, O daughter of Babylon (Saudi Arabia).
[SUP]43 [/SUP]“The king of Babylon (Saudi Arabia) has heard the report about them,
And his hands grow feeble;
Anguish has taken hold of him,
Pangs as of a woman in childbirth.
“Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the floodplain of the Jordan
Against the dwelling place of the strong...
He shall come up from the flood plain of the Jordan? Pretty specific location, between the North and South and if you want to avoid Israel, it is the best way to come if you are Iran and you want to attack your enemy Saudi Arabia by land.
Revelation mirrors Daniel in a lot of ways. Daniel was obviously a favorite of John's as he uses Daniel's symbolism a lot in Revelation.
"Fornication" as used by John means "Idol worship" or the worship of a false religion. The "kings of the earth" which are the rich Arab Oil Kings fornicated (or worshiped/served Islam).
If you remember back to Daniel 5:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then they brought the gold vessels that had been taken from the temple of the house of God which had been in Jerusalem; and the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines drank from them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze and iron, wood and stone.
The next thing that happened was God's finger writing on the wall and it was curtains for Babylon. Please note that Belshazzar ordered the holy vessels to be taken and filled with wine and they all got drunk. After this they praised the "god of riches/wealth."
Now look at how John puts it, obviously thinking about Daniel and original Babylon.
“Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, [SUP]2 [/SUP]with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
What is the source for the wealth of the Arab Kings? What is the rest of the earth buying from these sheiks? They aren't literally getting drunk on Saudi wine, they are getting rich on Saudi Oil. The west has looked past a lot of Saudi crimes and treatment of women, minorities, Christians, etc all for oil. If the Saudi's didn't have the most oil of any country, nobody would talk to them.
"Fornication" as used by John means "Idol worship" or the worship of a false religion. The "kings of the earth" which are the rich Arab Oil Kings fornicated (or worshiped/served Islam).
If you remember back to Daniel 5:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then they brought the gold vessels that had been taken from the temple of the house of God which had been in Jerusalem; and the king and his lords, his wives, and his concubines drank from them. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold and silver, bronze and iron, wood and stone.
The next thing that happened was God's finger writing on the wall and it was curtains for Babylon. Please note that Belshazzar ordered the holy vessels to be taken and filled with wine and they all got drunk. After this they praised the "god of riches/wealth."
Now look at how John puts it, obviously thinking about Daniel and original Babylon.
“Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, [SUP]2 [/SUP]with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
What is the source for the wealth of the Arab Kings? What is the rest of the earth buying from these sheiks? They aren't literally getting drunk on Saudi wine, they are getting rich on Saudi Oil. The west has looked past a lot of Saudi crimes and treatment of women, minorities, Christians, etc all for oil. If the Saudi's didn't have the most oil of any country, nobody would talk to them.
1) And this verse has anything to do with determining a timeframe?
Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
All it says is that Christ will take the Passover with the church in the Kingdom.
2) Let's not pull a few words out of the passage...
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.[/quote]
And where will He be? On the earth. He doesn't come and whisk the church away prior to the GT, scripture says this nowhere.
3) And the context of the passage is the marriage of Christ to the church...
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Notice where we meet Christ? In the air and with clouds, now the highest clouds form at about 20,000 feet or around 4 miles above sea level.
I agree, it is always good not to omit scriptures.
Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
All it says is that Christ will take the Passover with the church in the Kingdom.
2) Let's not pull a few words out of the passage...
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.[/quote]
And where will He be? On the earth. He doesn't come and whisk the church away prior to the GT, scripture says this nowhere.
3) And the context of the passage is the marriage of Christ to the church...
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Notice where we meet Christ? In the air and with clouds, now the highest clouds form at about 20,000 feet or around 4 miles above sea level.
I agree, it is always good not to omit scriptures.
P
I finished chapter nine this morn, and will wait to read on. Thought I would come back to this thread and catch up a little. I stopped reading after page 14.
It is sad, amusing, and disheartening all at the same time to see most of these posts. So many have opinions about Revelation that don't even understand simple bible doctrine. So many are spouting what they have been taught or learned from man as gospel about this book. And then some here are just getting a thrill our of seeing their name as the author of posts.
Revelation wasn't meant for any and all christians to understand.
I am confident that if we could completely understand this book we would know the time of the end, and no man knows that. Revelation and understanding about it will continue until that last day, when all will be revealed to us.
So many here have put forth this author, or that writing, as an authority on the book. I mention F. G. Smith, not as a know all of Revelation, but as a man that understands symbolism quite well. Clearly he was a man of God, but he, like so many others, leans to his own understanding when the Spirit stops revealing to him. If you read his complete "The Revelation Explained" you will see that he had no knowledge or understanding of the destructive technology that man has today. Just because he was right about part of it doesn't mean he is right about all of it. So many times one allows the old man, self, to step in and offer an explanation instead of admitting their own ignorance.
If I know something about the bible I will not hesitate to speak about it. If I don't know, I will admit it right up front. Some people just get too full of themselves, too puffed up, to admit their own lack of knowledge - even to themselves.
I'll say this - if you don't understand symbolism and when it is being used, you have no business trying to teach on this book.
I started this to further my own understanding of the book. The OP is something that many of you glossed over and simply didn't think about. Understanding that John started this book with spiritual revelation on earth and then was spiritually transported to heaven is important. There is a time division there, and what happened in the first 3 chapters is to be understood in a different light of the rest of the book.
Past the 3rd chapter there is very little to be taken literally. I will post part of Smith's explanation on symbolism and encourage you to actually read it. It is a bit long but it is eye opening. If you don't read anything else, read that much.
The Revelation Explained by F. Smith - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/7)
It is sad, amusing, and disheartening all at the same time to see most of these posts. So many have opinions about Revelation that don't even understand simple bible doctrine. So many are spouting what they have been taught or learned from man as gospel about this book. And then some here are just getting a thrill our of seeing their name as the author of posts.
Revelation wasn't meant for any and all christians to understand.
I am confident that if we could completely understand this book we would know the time of the end, and no man knows that. Revelation and understanding about it will continue until that last day, when all will be revealed to us.
So many here have put forth this author, or that writing, as an authority on the book. I mention F. G. Smith, not as a know all of Revelation, but as a man that understands symbolism quite well. Clearly he was a man of God, but he, like so many others, leans to his own understanding when the Spirit stops revealing to him. If you read his complete "The Revelation Explained" you will see that he had no knowledge or understanding of the destructive technology that man has today. Just because he was right about part of it doesn't mean he is right about all of it. So many times one allows the old man, self, to step in and offer an explanation instead of admitting their own ignorance.
If I know something about the bible I will not hesitate to speak about it. If I don't know, I will admit it right up front. Some people just get too full of themselves, too puffed up, to admit their own lack of knowledge - even to themselves.
I'll say this - if you don't understand symbolism and when it is being used, you have no business trying to teach on this book.
I started this to further my own understanding of the book. The OP is something that many of you glossed over and simply didn't think about. Understanding that John started this book with spiritual revelation on earth and then was spiritually transported to heaven is important. There is a time division there, and what happened in the first 3 chapters is to be understood in a different light of the rest of the book.
Past the 3rd chapter there is very little to be taken literally. I will post part of Smith's explanation on symbolism and encourage you to actually read it. It is a bit long but it is eye opening. If you don't read anything else, read that much.
The Revelation Explained by F. Smith - Full Text Free Book (Part 1/7)