Revelation

[DesiredHaven]

which 2 or 3 are you looking at?

What he named, that pertaining to Rome and Mecca, and another pertaining to neither

I have never looked into these doctrines in respects to how others put them forth. So after many years I decided to read a little on forums and weigh out who I believe can present their side of it better.

I look who can handle the scripture the better of them all.

 

[dcontroversal]

Actually it does because all the kings of the Muslim religion nations do meet in Mecca once a year on their main holiday, as well does 1,000's of Muslims from all over the world go their on this day to worship. We when reading prophecy must get over thinking all or all of the world actually means the whole entire world. For the bible mentions all and all the world multiple times when not actually meaning every single country in the world.
Remember when going back to Ezekiel 28-30, Isaiah, and Daniel the nations always mentioned to face Gods judgment in the later times are Muslim or mainly Muslim nations.
I know some of you don't agree with PlainWord but he has been giving some biblical definitions of Mystery Babylon that do seem to get overlooked. I do not agree with all that Plainword says because I do believe the Roman empire does play a role to, but I do not believe it is the main role persay. There are a couple of scriptures that show Turkey as where the man of sin rises out of, and Turkey is majority Muslim was part of the original Roman empire, and has the second largest military force in the U.N. after the U.S.
The ties between the U.S. and Turkey has been getting stressed the past couple years, along with the fact that Turkey threatened the U.S. and Israel if they attack Iran.
Daniel 2 also shows the 10 kingdoms represented by the feet with the 10 toes as Iron mixed with Clay.
Meaning a combination of two groups, and the Muslims do have big populations in or are the main population in some of the original Roman empire countries.

Kings of the EARTH...NOT KINGS of the Nations

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually it does because all the kings of the Muslim religion nations do meet in Mecca once a year on their main holiday, as well does 1,000's of Muslims from all over the world go their on this day to worship. We when reading prophecy must get over thinking all or all of the world actually means the whole entire world. For the bible mentions all and all the world multiple times when not actually meaning every single country in the world.
Remember when going back to Ezekiel 28-30, Isaiah, and Daniel the nations always mentioned to face Gods judgment in the later times are Muslim or mainly Muslim nations.
I know some of you don't agree with PlainWord but he has been giving some biblical definitions of Mystery Babylon that do seem to get overlooked. I do not agree with all that Plainword says because I do believe the Roman empire does play a role to, but I do not believe it is the main role persay. There are a couple of scriptures that show Turkey as where the man of sin rises out of, and Turkey is majority Muslim was part of the original Roman empire, and has the second largest military force in the U.N. after the U.S.
The ties between the U.S. and Turkey has been getting stressed the past couple years, along with the fact that Turkey threatened the U.S. and Israel if they attack Iran.
Daniel 2 also shows the 10 kingdoms represented by the feet with the 10 toes as Iron mixed with Clay.
Meaning a combination of two groups, and the Muslims do have big populations in or are the main population in some of the original Roman empire countries.

ever been in Vatican city on Christmas or Easter? or the roman church in jreusalem on the same dates?

wow dude, you have a blind eye to alot of things don't you?

So does islam worship the queen of heaven?
Does Islam practice penance and religious ceremony and rite?
Do they have a high priest/lower priests who initiate their rights?
Do they worship in pagan temples?
Do they eat certain foods, and drink certain drinks calling it the flesh and blood of God?

you need to stop being so single minded. Study the babylonian pracices from the time it started, moved out throughout the world (from Baal worship, to the greek myths to the roman myths) and see what things God isreal in trouble. for only then will you see who true babylon is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What he named, that pertaining to Rome and Mecca, and another pertaining to neither

I have never looked into these doctrines in respects to how others put them forth. So after many years I decided to read a little on forums and weigh out who I believe can present their side of it better.

I look who can handle the scripture the better of them all.

Just remember, Do not listen to me or anyone else. without using the word to test who is lining up.

And also remember, we may all be wrong..lol

 

[kennethcadwell]

lol.. I am proving she is not just a small city. that does not have anything. or did you not read the context?

Do you ever read what is being said?

I have proved she makes the worlds merchants rich in the rest of my posts. (what do you think she does with all that money) Try sticking to context.

Oh I do?

the electric companies getting rich off supplying her electricity.
The workers getting rich of keeping her building in good shape (ever been around a cathedral? there is always some kind of work being done to keep it in tip top shape by merchants)
who do you think supplies them with all the wine and wafers for the continual masses they have every week?

and I have not even begun to explain how much money they spend on a weekly bases to people who keep that organization in power.

I think again, You can not read what people are saying, so you get confused. Because your one sighted. and assume you know what they are saying

I did read what you said and you said the Vatican was getting rich.
The scripture in Revelation does not say Babylon gets rich, it says the merchants who sell to her are getting rich.
There is nobody getting more rich off of anybody then the oil merchants who are getting their oil from Saudi Arabia.
If Rome gets destroyed it would be devastating to the Catholic community around the world, but would not have devastating affects like the oil capital being destroyed would.
If Saudi Arabia gets destroyed it would have bad consequences on economies around the world that rely on that oil.

Higher gas prices, means higher shipping costs, which means higher food costs................
Some companies may end up shutting down because they can not afford the influx, making products harder to come by and so on. The Vatican being destroyed would not do all of that.

 

[DesiredHaven]

Just remember, Do not listen to me or anyone else. without using the word to test who is lining up.

And also remember, we may all be wrong..lol

I have greatest respect for you for that comment lol

And I do try but this stuff (numbers and geography are my weakest link) and this is not easy for me to sort through (admittedly).

Maybe I cant get "close" weighing out what I can weigh out but side stepping other parts I cannot.

Either way, I know I will never be fully convinced (by anyone) unless I can pull it out and handle it for myself (to see these things more clearly)

 

[Reborn]

Either way, I know I will never be fully convinced (by anyone) unless I can pull it out and handle it for myself (to see these things more clearly)

...........AND I have the greatest respect for you, for this comment.

It should be this way.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have greatest respect for you for that comment lol

And I do try but this stuff (numbers and geography are my weakest link) and this is not easy for me to sort through (admittedly).

Maybe I cant get "close" weighing out what I can weigh out but side stepping other parts I cannot.

Either way, I know I will never be fully convinced (by anyone) unless I can pull it out and handle it for myself (to see these things more clearly)

I am with ya.

I was taught so much stuff growing up that I now do not buy into concerning these things, It took me years to figure out what I believe now. And I still am leaning, and would never say I am right 100% I may find out one day I am wrong. we do not know.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did read what you said and you said the Vatican was getting rich.

No, You did not read what I said. And this gets so old. I am getting to the point I do not know why I even try.

If you had truly been paying attention to what was being said. You would have seen this in the post I responded to.

Haha, no it doesn't.

3. What merchants of the earth are getting rich selling to the Vatican? The Vatican is the smallest nation on earth and their imports are tiny

then you would have seen my respons was that he was in error. It is NOT THE SMALLEST NATION ON EARTH as far as financial. It is actually one of the wealthiest as I said.

But you do not want to hear what people say, You think you know the truth, and the rest of us are in error. so you do not HAVE to read what is being said,

and in doing so, you continue to prove you do not read a thing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if people would stop listening to the propoganda of the far left. they would realise, it takes money to spend money.

I have a job because the rich of the world buy my services. the one who has the most wealth spends the most money, and is the one who makes the merchants themselves rich.

a poor nation can not make merchants rich, they must be wealthy!

 

[kennethcadwell]

ever been in Vatican city on Christmas or Easter? or the roman church in jreusalem on the same dates?

wow dude, you have a blind eye to alot of things don't you?

So does islam worship the queen of heaven?
Does Islam practice penance and religious ceremony and rite?
Do they have a high priest/lower priests who initiate their rights?
Do they worship in pagan temples?
Do they eat certain foods, and drink certain drinks calling it the flesh and blood of God?

you need to stop being so single minded. Study the babylonian pracices from the time it started, moved out throughout the world (from Baal worship, to the greek myths to the roman myths) and see what things God isreal in trouble. for only then will you see who true babylon is.

Actually yes the Muslims do worship a person called the queen of heaven, they call her Diana

Who worships a stone falling from heaven, the Catholics or Muslims ?
It is the Muslims (Acts 19:28-35) who do this with their Kabba stone.

Yes they do have pagan temples called Mosques, and yes they do have eating rituals and cleansing rituals still.
You are stating other stuff that the Catholics do that are not given in the bible as descriptions of Babylon, yes they do have doctrines that aren't biblical but that does not make them Babylon.
As for the Communion it is in the bible mentioned by both Jesus and then again by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11, they may misuse it but it is biblical. And Paul even gives a warning that if you partake of it in a wrongful manner you bring judgment and damnation on yourself.

I am not single minded so that is your false assertion you make, because I use to believe as you did about Rome and also looked into the fact of New York city and after doing study found out that neither one fits all the descriptions in the bible.

 

[Agricola]

Communism collapses because people still want to gain wealth and riches.

 

[john832]

if people would stop listening to the propoganda of the far left. they would realise, it takes money to spend money.

I have a job because the rich of the world buy my services. the one who has the most wealth spends the most money, and is the one who makes the merchants themselves rich.

a poor nation can not make merchants rich, they must be wealthy!

I think people fail to realize that God is a capitalist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually yes the Muslims do worship a person called the queen of heaven, they call her Diana

Who worships a stone falling from heaven, the Catholics or Muslims ?
It is the Muslims (Acts 19:28-35) who do this with their Kabba stone.

Yes they do have pagan temples called Mosques, and yes they do have eating rituals and cleansing rituals still.
You are stating other stuff that the Catholics do that are not given in the bible as descriptions of Babylon, yes they do have doctrines that aren't biblical but that does not make them Babylon.
As for the Communion it is in the bible mentioned by both Jesus and then again by Paul in 1 Corinthians 11, they may misuse it but it is biblical. And Paul even gives a warning that if you partake of it in a wrongful manner you bring judgment and damnation on yourself.

I am not single minded so that is your false assertion you make, because I use to believe as you did about Rome and also looked into the fact of New York city and after doing study found out that neither one fits all the descriptions in the bible.

1, The catholics call mary the queen of heaven.
2. The catholics turned pagan temples into roman catherdrals (christian temples)
3. The catholic pope is the actual high priest of the pagan worship (constantine was the ceasar/high priest of the roman pagan cult. everything he says comes directly from god and is equal to God word.
4. Pagan teaches the mother child relationship which was taught by pagan worship (only in catholicism, it is jesus mary, not the many forms of mother/child figures in pagan ritual which changed names in different regions and different times)
5. Catholicism resembles the true wife, as in she acts like a christian, has chritian names, uses christian dieties, and uses christian rites) this she is the defenition of a true harlot.

Islam has NOTHING which resembles the true christian semblance, except maybe a few Gods. And remember, They only worship one God. (Allah) where catholics have many Gods, just like paganism did.

 

[kennethcadwell]

if people would stop listening to the propoganda of the far left. they would realise, it takes money to spend money.

I have a job because the rich of the world buy my services. the one who has the most wealth spends the most money, and is the one who makes the merchants themselves rich.

a poor nation can not make merchants rich, they must be wealthy!

Saudi Arabia is not poor by any means as they make millions of dollars off their oil.................

They then in turn take that money and purchase everything else they need because the majority of what they have has to be imported by other countries. The desert land expanse and such makes it almost impossible to grow most foods, and not to many animals are common to that area so they have to import all of it. Then you have the vehicles, precious metals and jewels that they buy and decorate their temples and stuff just like the Catholics. There are tons of descriptions throughout the bible for Mystery Babylon and they all have to fit. Saudi Arabia / Muslims still worship the same pagan ways the original Babylonian empire did.......

 

[DesiredHaven]

...........AND I have the greatest respect for you, for this comment.

It should be this way.

Awh...Thanks Bro!

I agree though because someone could be handling it without the greatest of care. But I distrust someone handling it for me, always have (and I always will) whether I love that person (or whether they drive me nutso).

And only because we see how folks (in knowledge, which can puff up) can hate being wrong but then become more interested in being right and/or saving face (but at the very cost of correctly handling the word of truth) in order to do so.

So, if we are told "the many" (even from way back) corrupt the same who am I (or any of us) to put our trust in anothers ability to handle (what we ourselves cannot)?

In these things that has been a really tough place for me to be in, because I can prove just about anything out (for myself). I want to handle it (for me) but I cant discern (in these things) who is handling it the better alsway, and especially when they dont use scripture. But when they do (it helps) but not necessarily themselves out (always) because I dont always believe the scriptures are handled so greatly either. Especially in matters of proving ones point, there always seems to be a far better one that can hit point home better (without all the sumersaults).

God help me

(lol)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Saudi Arabia is not poor by any means as they make millions of dollars off their oil.................

They then in turn take that money and purchase everything else they need because the majority of what they have has to be imported by other countries. The desert land expanse and such makes it almost impossible to grow most foods, and not to many animals are common to that area so they have to import all of it. Then you have the vehicles, precious metals and jewels that they buy and decorate their temples and stuff just like the Catholics. There are tons of descriptions throughout the bible for Mystery Babylon and they all have to fit. Saudi Arabia / Muslims still worship the same pagan ways the original Babylonian empire did.......

no muslims do not. You evidently have not studied babylon at all. or baalism, or greek mythology, or roman mythology, all which has it roots in babylon.

 

[kennethcadwell]

1, The catholics call mary the queen of heaven.
2. The catholics turned pagan temples into roman catherdrals (christian temples)
3. The catholic pope is the actual high priest of the pagan worship (constantine was the ceasar/high priest of the roman pagan cult. everything he says comes directly from god and is equal to God word.
4. Pagan teaches the mother child relationship which was taught by pagan worship (only in catholicism, it is jesus mary, not the many forms of mother/child figures in pagan ritual which changed names in different regions and different times)
5. Catholicism resembles the true wife, as in she acts like a christian, has chritian names, uses christian dieties, and uses christian rites) this she is the defenition of a true harlot.

Islam has NOTHING which resembles the true christian semblance, except maybe a few Gods. And remember, They only worship one God. (Allah) where catholics have many Gods, just like paganism did.

You are stating all the things the Catholics do though, and I know for I was in the church for 5 years before I left.
This however is not the descriptions of Mystery Babylon throughout the bible from the OT to the NT expect for the gueen of heaven which I already told you that is Diana to them.

Read Acts 19 as it gives another description of the system in question......

Babylon did not come from Christianity or Jewish customs, for it has always been a false worship system.
Catholicism is the apostate Christianity of the end times, but not Babylon. If anything Catholicism is the false prophet of the final system, but not the main force of it.
Remember the bible shows the final system as a mixture of Iron mixed with Clay, meaning it is not all just one system of the past. It is the combination of a pre-existing system mixed with another system. Muslims and apostate Christianity................

 

[john832]

You are stating all the things the Catholics do though, and I know for I was in the church for 5 years before I left.
This however is not the descriptions of Mystery Babylon throughout the bible from the OT to the NT expect for the gueen of heaven which I already told you that is Diana to them.

Read Acts 19 as it gives another description of the system in question......

Babylon did not come from Christianity or Jewish customs, for it has always been a false worship system.
Catholicism is the apostate Christianity of the end times, but not Babylon. If anything Catholicism is the false prophet of the final system, but not the main force of it.
Remember the bible shows the final system as a mixture of Iron mixed with Clay, meaning it is not all just one system of the past. It is the combination of a pre-existing system mixed with another system. Muslims and apostate Christianity................

You are technically correct. If one reads Rev 13 we see the first Beast is the political/military leader of ten nations and we see the second Beast as a religious leader that empowers the first.

 

[kennethcadwell]

no muslims do not. You evidently have not studied babylon at all. or baalism, or greek mythology, or roman mythology, all which has it roots in babylon.

I have studied some of it and in Acts 19 once again it says they worship Diana queen of the heavens to them, and they worship a fallen image from Zeus.

Who does this now days the Catholics or the Muslims ?

Do the Catholics worship an image that fell from space, no they do not. The Muslims do this............