sinless? or sinning less.

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That is not true.. Christians DO commit physical adultery. Just read the tons of threads on here from christians who say they cheated on their wife/husband/gf/bf...that's what adultery is..cheating on your spouse..

No. A person is not a Christian or saved if they are cheating on their wife, have hate in their heart towards others, get drunk, lie, use bad language (like it doesn't phase them), etc. For to sin, means one is not loving, and he that does not love, does not know God.
 
I'd rather play Jenga, than let temptation control me!
And believe me I despise playing Jenga! Lol
 
No. A person is not a Christian or saved if they are cheating on their wife, have hate in their heart towards others, get drunk, lie, use bad language (like it doesn't phase them), etc. For to sin, means one is not loving, and he that does not love, does not know God.

So, if a Christian stumbles and commits a sin then this person is no longer a Christian?
 
No. A person is not a Christian or saved if they are cheating on their wife, have hate in their heart towards others, get drunk, lie, use bad language (like it doesn't phase them), etc. For to sin, means one is not loving, and he that does not love, does not know God.

no, to sin means one is IMPERFECT and HUMAN.. if they repent, they are forgiven, and are most assuredly still a christian..
 
[SUP]Luke 6:43-45
43 [/SUP]“For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. [SUP]44 [/SUP]For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. [SUP]45 [/SUP]A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.

I understand that people make bad decisions and they are still loved by God. However, being Christian means to be like Christ and when they break one of God commands that is not showing love.
 
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That is not true.. Christians DO commit physical adultery. Just read the tons of threads on here from christians who say they cheated on their wife/husband/gf/bf...that's what adultery is..cheating on your spouse..

Christians are Christ like, thus to commit adultery is not christian at all.
 
The old heart loved sin and gave into temptation, praise God that we get a new one in Christ.
 
If we could be perfect on our own, there would be no need for Jesus. Most definitely vote for sinning less.
 
Those verses you posted support my comments bro as Galatians 5 1-15 deals with those who are freed in Christ Jesus (have liberty) through faith and warns them not to get entangled (or hindered) by law keeping or using the law of Moses as a example of their righteousness (faith) or lack there of, these have been sealed with the Spirit. We do get hindered sometimes by doctrines of men that seem sound but enslave us away from true faith in Christ where we grow and back in to rule keeping set in place by man's dictates that hinder a Christian and place us back into the bondage of men or to our carnal reasonings.
Just like this.......
Colossians 3:1-4
1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Collosians 3:1-17 "putting on the new self" (those sealed with the Spirit at the point of true belief)
In both examples and as today men receive the indwelling Holy Spirit at the point of true belief but their carnal nature and desires prior to conversion still exist within them and must be and will be overcome by living by the dictates of the Spirit and not of the carnal mind. The epistles are for instruction and reminding a true believer sealed with the Spirit that faith grows when it is working by love.

Galatians 5: 6-26 is instructing those sealed with the Spirit to fight the good fight living by the Spirit they were sealed with at the point of true belief to mortify their wants, still present in flesh rather then serving their flesh they should follow the fruits of the Spirit.

Ephesians 2 is written to those elect who have already or will soon experience the dawning of the indwelling Spirit see.......
John 1: 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:3-7
3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 6To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. 7In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Also see.......
2 Peter 1:3,4
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust

and....... 2 Peter 1:19-21 written to those elect who were sealed with the Spirit and will soon experience the dawning of the Spirit.

19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

and....... John 1:16
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. (read the commentary as well please)

Pulpit commentary
"And grace for grace. It is said the evangelist might have written χάριν ἐπὶ χάριτι, or ἐπὶ χάριν, grace in addition to grace received already; but the use of the preposition ἀντί, implies more, "grace interchanging with grace" (Meyer) - not the grace of the old covenant replaced by the grace of the new dispensation (Chrysostom, Lampe, and many others), for, though there was grace underlying all God's self-revelation, yet in the next verse the contrast between "Law" and "grace" is too striking to be ignored. The grace replaced by grace means that every grace received is a capacity for higher blessedness. Thus Christian humility is the condition of Divine uplifting; the knowledge that leads to love is the condition of that higher gnosis that is born of love. The faith that accepts mercy blossoms into the joy that is unspeakable and full of glory. Reconciliation with God becomes itself transformed into active communion with him; all union to Christ becomes the harbinger of full identification with him, "he in us and we in him." This is the great principle of the Divine kingdom: "To him that hath shall be given."
(could this be describing the dawning of the indwelling Holy Spirit described in 2 Peter 1:19-21 above?)



Will you answer my question first? .......how are you doing today Jason?

Please read Colossians 3 again. It says we used to do those sinful things, but we are not that way anymore. It compares those who do such things as being called the "children of disobedience." Paul mentions a list of sins in Colossians 3. He has done this elsewhere in Scripture, too. Galatians 5, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, Ephesians 5, 2 Timothy 3. Paul says that they that do the type sins he listed will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Paul says, be not deceived in regards to this topic. Now, let's understand someting here, you cannot be deceived if you are an unbeliever. An unbeliever is already deceived and already does those kinds of sins, anyway. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts. In other words, if a someone has not crucified the affections and lusts and claims to be a Christian, they are not of Christ.
 
no, to sin means one is IMPERFECT and HUMAN.. if they repent, they are forgiven, and are most assuredly still a christian..

If they live in sin habitually and don't repent, they are not saved. A believer will always confess and forsake sin.
 
James 3:1,2
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.For we all stumble in many things. If anyone does not stumble in word, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle the whole body

Hi Dave,

So you claim to be perfect man who does not stumble in word, able to bridle to whole body, is that right?

If so, then what about your words below.



Let's consider the rest of James 3 for context.

James 3:8-11
But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.With it we bless (love) our God and Father, and with it we curse (judge/condemn under the law) men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing (love/grace) and cursing (judgement/condemnation under the law). My brethren, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring (Christians) send forth fresh water (love/grace) and bitter (judgement/condemnation) from the same opening?


James 3 warns that those who teach error will face a stricter judgement.

And what error teaching does James 3 specifically use as an example?

It speaks against mixing works of the law, with grace, just as Rom 11:6 likewise warns against.
A spring (Christians) cannot bring forth both fresh water (love/grace), and bitter (judgement/condemnation under the law). There are numerous scriptures warnings against mixing works with grace. And you are going against these warnings in scripture.

You accuse any who do not perfectly obey the law in the following quote:


Now whatever the law says it says to those under it, Rom 3:19.

Therefore we see that you judge righteousness by works of the law.

You oppose God's claim in James 3:11 that a spring cannot bring forth both fresh water, and bitter. You are mixing works of the law, with grace.

You're not that perfect man that you claim to be.

You do not understand what i am saying at all.

i do not believe in obeying the law, or Laws at all. To obey the Laws is works. i plainly teach, a person commits sin when they fail to love one another. As we are Commanded to do by Jesus Christ Himself.

A person who steals from another person does not commit sin because they broke a law that states "Thou shalt not steal" They commit sin, because they failed to love the person they stole from. NOTHING to do with the law. Everything to do with LOVE.

The Kingdom of Heaven desires to have those who LOVE ONE ANOTHER. The Kingdom of Heaven will reject those who do NOT Love one another.

There are two types of people in this world.
1) Those who love one another
and
2) Those who don't.

Jesus plainly tells us what His Commandment is:
John 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Those who love one another are of God. Those who do not love one another are not of God. God is LOVE. satan is not love. Your Master is to whom you obey, if you obey LOVE, then you are of God, if you do not obey LOVE, then you are not of God. Those who LOVE ONE ANOTHER, belong to God and will be accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven, those who do not LOVE ONE ANOTHER, belong to satan and will be rejected from the Kingdom of Heaven. And it does not matter what they say with their mouths "I am Saved" or "I am under the Blood" or "I am not under the law" or "Once Saved Always Saved" or whatever else this generation says so as to feel good about continuing to live in sins.

^i^ Responding to Post # 53
 
i do all things to please Jesus Christ. If i am tempted to commit a sin, something that i know is sinful and against God, and i do it anyways, i obey that temptation, who is my master according to the Word of God? satan is. If Jesus is my Master, my Savior, my Lord, and His enemy tempts me to commit a sin, Why on Earth would i obey my Masters sworn enemy and commit a sin? Am i so selfish, that i would think of my own self OVER that of my Master Jesus Christ? i am a slave of Jesus Christ, i do nothing to upset Him. He is my Master, He is my Lord, He is my life. i do all things to please Him, NOT myself. If i willingly commit a sin, i am selfish, and i am not thinking about Jesus Christ, i am selfish, wicked, and evil if i obey satan when he tempts me to commit sin, the very reason my Lord and Savior had to die for. i hate sin, i hate the devil and everything he stands for. i will not obey him at all, i will not be overtaken by his wiles, his temptations. i have Jesus Christ living in me, He is my strength and power against satan. satan can't touch me, with Him in me. He in me, even prevents satan from tempting me as much as he could. The sin that use to so easily beset me, is not more important than Jesus Christ. i gave up all sinning for Jesus Christ? i love Him, more than i love the sin that so easily beset me. Jesus gave His life for me, i in a like manner have given Him my life, i belong to Him, i am married to Him, i am His, i am His slave, i only do those things that please Him, and not sinful things to please my self. All willful sin is selfishness, If i knowingly and willingly obey His enemy and commit a sin, i have denied Jesus Christ's strength and power and path out of that sin, and no person who denies Christ shall enter into Heaven, UNLESS they Repent, and CEASE to ever do again the thing they are repenting of.

If i can do this. . .. .. . SO CAN YOU.

^i^
 
BTW, I already answered your point before about taking God's name in vain. Christians don't do this as believing on Jesus is not believing on Jesus, but instead it's believing on God, John 12:44.

Hi Haz

I would like your opinion on something, as I have much respect for what you write. I know of people who go to a church and do take the Lord's name in vain. They will say phrases like ''Oh my God'' and Jesus and do so irreverenatly in general conversation, laughing as they do so. They have been baptised in water, and are members of the church they belong to.

When I mentioned to one of them, saying those phrases is taking the Lords name in vain they were shocked, they didn't want to believe it. They said, in their culture those phrases were simply used in much general conversation, they were brought up with them. To me, when the law God requires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart, you must immediately, instinctively know what is sin in God's eyes, for the light has been turned on. If that is true, how can Christians take the name of the Lord in vain and have no conscience, or knowledge they sinning by doing so?
 
So, if a Christian stumbles and commits a sin then this person is no longer a Christian?

It depends on how you define stumble. If you define stumble as sinning and they immediately confess and repent of that sin (When God convicts them to repent), then... "no" (They are a Christian). But if you define stumble as someone (who ignores the conviction of the Spirit to repent) and they abide in unrepentant sin a way of life habitually, then... "yes" (They are no longer a Christian). In other words, if they live a life where they are living for themselves and sin, then they are serving the devil and not God. For Jesus said, why do you call me "Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?" For do you honestly think a sin and still be saved doctrine is the "narrow road" spoken about in Scripture?
 
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Hi Haz

I would like your opinion on something, as I have much respect for what you write. I know of people who go to a church and do take the Lord's name in vain. They will say phrases like ''Oh my God'' and Jesus and do so irreverenatly in general conversation, laughing as they do so. They have been baptised in water, and are members of the church they belong to.

When I mentioned to one of them, saying those phrases is taking the Lords name in vain they were shocked, they didn't want to believe it. They said, in their culture those phrases were simply used in much general conversation, they were brought up with them. To me, when the law God requires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart, you must immediately, instinctively know what is sin in God's eyes, for the light has been turned on. If that is true, how can Christians take the name of the Lord in vain and have no conscience, or knowledge they sinning by doing so?

Hi Michael,

Thanks for you compliment, but as it's Christ our teacher (Matt 23:8, 1John 2:27) who gives us understanding I give him the praise for teaching us. He has revealed his truth to you as you have understanding.

Christians are at different stages of growth.

And we all have said something at times, even unrelated to God, that comes out automatically without thinking it through. In a thoughtful moment I will question some common sayings that are often used in society. "Oh my God" is a commonly used phrase and I don't know what it's original intent was when it was first used. Now days people use it without even understanding or thinking why. Such phrases are not used by most with any intent of irreverence or disrespect towards God.

But I think its good to gently draw a fellow Christian's attention to what do they mean by saying that and do they think it's appropriate. Chances are they won't even know why they used it. It's just an automatic response that all of us are susceptible to. Hopefully once we gently draw attention to what is the purpose behind using such commonly used sayings, a Christian will not let an unthinking automatic response use such terms again.

But we need to always remember that God is able to make a Christian stand, Rom 14:4.
Therefore we should not judge a fellow Christian.

Note Joel 2:1-8 in relation to each our own walk.
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion (preach the gospel), and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people (Christians) and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them (the kingdom of God), and behind them a desolate wilderness (the physical); yea, and nothing shall escape them.

The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.
Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.

They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

And remember Ps 37:23-24 in regards to Joel 2 saying that we will not be wounded.
Ps 37:23,24
The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the Lord upholdeth him with his hand.

We need to remember that each of us is walking in our path (Joel 2:7) and the Lord (our teacher, the Bishop of our souls) upholds us with his hand. Therefore we should not jostle one another if they're not quite walking in exactly the same path as us. God knows exactly where each Christian is in their walk/path and He is able to uphold them with His hand.

Hope this helps. And keep trusting in him. Great to see you receiving understanding from Christ our teacher, Matt 23:8.
 
Hi Haz

I would like your opinion on something, as I have much respect for what you write. I know of people who go to a church and do take the Lord's name in vain. They will say phrases like ''Oh my God'' and Jesus and do so irreverenatly in general conversation, laughing as they do so. They have been baptised in water, and are members of the church they belong to.

When I mentioned to one of them, saying those phrases is taking the Lords name in vain they were shocked, they didn't want to believe it. They said, in their culture those phrases were simply used in much general conversation, they were brought up with them. To me, when the law God requires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart, you must immediately, instinctively know what is sin in God's eyes, for the light has been turned on. If that is true, how can Christians take the name of the Lord in vain and have no conscience, or knowledge they sinning by doing so?

I think the problem is with your view of the law on the heart and mind, If your view is right then anyone who is not convicted on the very same things as you can not be a christian.

And what happens when some one is convicted on something you are not, who is truly born again?

The Word is the only solid test cause it does not change form person to person. It upholds the standard of true Christianity.

If your view is true then how can a Christian grow? Should they not know all they need to in regards to sin from the moment they are born again? meaning they have not sin of ignorance cause they are convicted on all sin at once.

I really don't get how your view on this could be right. If it were every one who is born again should be convicted at once on the exact same things. So why then would Paul have to correct people if they already know?

Confusing. by your view those people who you speak of are not born again if you are right.
 
I think the problem is with your view of the law on the heart and mind, If your view is right then anyone who is not convicted on the very same things as you can not be a christian.

And what happens when some one is convicted on something you are not, who is truly born again?

The Word is the only solid test cause it does not change form person to person. It upholds the standard of true Christianity.

If your view is true then how can a Christian grow? Should they not know all they need to in regards to sin from the moment they are born again? meaning they have not sin of ignorance cause they are convicted on all sin at once.

I really don't get how your view on this could be right. If it were every one who is born again should be convicted at once on the exact same things. So why then would Paul have to correct people if they already know?

Confusing. by your view those people who you speak of are not born again if you are right.

So would you believe, once a person becomes a Christian, they do not necessarily know committing adultery to be wrong, therefore if they commit that sin, until they become aware it is wrong they are committing sin in ignorance of how God wants them to live their life?
 
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So would you believe, once a person becomes a Christian, they do not necessarily know committing adultery to be wrong, therefore if they commit that sin, until they become aware it is wrong they are committing sin in ignorance of how God expects them to live their life?

How would one become a Christian without being first made aware that adultery is sin?

You can't call someone to repent if they have no idea what to repent of.
 
i do not believe in obeying the law, or Laws at all. To obey the Laws is works. i plainly teach, a person commits sin when they fail to love one another.

Now Rom 3:25 says that only past sin was remitted at the cross.
So have you been perfect in loving others since the day you received Christ?
If not then how was your subsequent sin dealt with when only past sin was remitted at the cross, Rom 3:25?

The Kingdom of Heaven will reject those who do NOT Love one another.

those who do not LOVE ONE ANOTHER, belong to satan and will be rejected from the Kingdom of Heaven.

I certainly agrre that Christians should love one anther, and love does no ill to another. But note also that love forgives 7x70, which is consistent with 1Cor 13 description of love that it keeps no record of wrongs.

Jesus told us that we are to forgive 7x70.

So are you saying that God expects us to be more forgiving than you claim He is?

Also, consider the thief on the cross who believed on Jesus, calling him "Lord". Are you saying that those with death bed salvation are more blessed than those Christians who live for decades having to avoid slipping up and thus being condemned?

That thief on the cross obeyed God's will that we believe on Jesus (John 6:40). He obeyed the gospel (John 3:16).
But you're saying that unless our physical behavior is perfect, then we're lost as God does not forgive 7x70.

And as you claim we're to be perfect in behavior, as God does not forgive 7x70, then what is God's chastisement to those He loves, all about (Heb 12)?