Abortion

[Jimbone]

What an ego you have. Prideful too. Both sins of course. And to remind you that you are not in Heaven. You are on a forum wherein there are rules that tell you personal attacks are in violation of those rules.

Your attitude doesn't save lives. It shows what your faith causes you to become and toward other Christians. And it tells those who may be seekers of the way what the way can inspire in the professing Christian that acts as you do toward other Christians. And as you defend your actions as if you are able to save lives.
Jesus saves souls! Does you attitude draw people to Christ? Or does it repel people by example?
Proverbs 29:11




A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.

So accepting abortion (the murder of defenseless babies) is what we should use to "draw people to Christ?", IMHO you're example has been much worse than his just was. (not that my opinion means a thing) Man your adamant defense of killing babies while claiming Christ is gut wrenching to me. Could you honestly set one of these ripped apart dead aborted babies at your Lords feet, and think He ok’s it? This world doesn't get to dictate what's right and wrong, nor do the horrible things men do, Gods word does. I have still missed any of the scriptures you’ve posted that prove God ok’s abortion. Is that weak “He told them to kill every man, woman, and child in the OT”, argument all you have? Because that is NOT God saying “a child is not alive until birth so kill as many in the womb as you need to so you can live a convenient life”.

You also ignored my other post asking why, as a professing Christian, do you feel such passion and drive to protect abortion. Is it really just a women’s right thing? Or do you just love to destroy Gods beautiful creation, and yes even a rapists baby can be beautiful, and it’s only half his anyway, what about the half that is the woman’s? What about the millions of people that want a child and can’t have one. There are a lot of hypotheticals I can come up with too. Why do you seem to want to endorse the right to kill babies so very much. Seems your passion for abortion outweighs your passion for Jesus.

 

[Utah]

What an ego you have.

Pot, meet kettle.

And for the record, championing pro-life most definitely saves lives same as championing pro-choice, aka pro-murder, destroys lives. No getting around it.

 

[Utah]

I thank God you were not aborted. You might want to embrace a similar outlook towards all humanity.

Yeah, no doubt that's a serious personal attack. Gotcha!

 

[tourist]

Abortion is ethical murder of the unborn. Just because something is legal does not make it right. Ethics has nothing to do with what is moral and just.

 

[AngelFrog]

Pot, meet kettle.

And for the record, championing pro-life most definitely saves lives same as championing pro-choice, aka pro-murder, destroys lives. No getting around it.

No, not really. But thanks.

And so I take it you and your compatriots here who call names and attack me in the name of Christ and even deny I am a Christian, all quite against the rules btw, have adopted no children that were born without a home to go to.

You be pot all by yourself brother. Go with God.

 

[AngelFrog]

Abortion is ethical murder of the unborn. Just because something is legal does not make it right. Ethics has nothing to do with what is moral and just.

What is infanticide by God's edict?

Hosea 13:16 (New International Version)


The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

 

[p_rehbein]

Mixing the Covenants will only cause confusion...........what was under the Law was one thing, we are now under Grace.....the Law of Faith..............just saying........

 

[VCO]

Just a thought here, but if believers can not agree on abortion, they can hardly expect our Government or Nation to can they?

Romans 13:1-8 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.


1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
[SUP]14 [/SUP] or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
[SUP]16 [/SUP] as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.


The ONLY exception to that is when Government orders you to do something against GOD instructions.

 

[tourist]

What is infanticide by God's edict?

Hosea 13:16 (New International Version)


The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open."

I'm not sure about the infanticide. Is this something that God caused to happen or allowed, for reasons known clearly only to Himself, to happen? I find a lot of disturbing things in the OT that I don't understand or begin to comprehend.

 

[p_rehbein]

VCO.........all good, but that does not make void the free will of mankind........many scriptures on that too.......

 

[Elin]

Our American government via SCOTUS already figured the issue of abortion out. It's legal based on 9th and 14th Amendment right.

There is no right to take innocent human life in the U.S. Constitution.

When scriptures tell us we should obey those put in power over us because they are seated by the will and power of God what does it say of the Christians that attack those empowered? Who are doing God's will?

The NT does not state that all the governing authorities are obedient to God.

The NT shows that when the governing authority requires us to personally sin, we are to disobey,
and be prepared to suffer the consequences of our decision.

What's it say of Christians who attack other Christians faith because they disagree with their point of view? I wonder if Christians here who personally attack other Christians would pursue that line if Jesus himself were standing behind them watching them type at the keyboard.

And to beat the critics to it, I'd certainly not change a thing I've written. Because Jesus, who was God, is well aware of all he did in the old testament. It isn't news to him. However, it does read to be unpalatable news to some here. Who can't stand that a woman tells them her womb is none of their business.

When that womb contains individual human life, it is not just her business.

Our law does not allow murder of innocent human life outside the womb,
and to allow its murder inside the womb is inexcusable.

It is the shedding of innocent blood that pollutes the land (Nu 35:33; 2Kgs 24:4) and cries out
to heaven for justice (Ge 4:10), for which the Lord will judge this land (Ge 9:5; Dt 21:7-9; Ps 106:38),
which judgment is long over due.

 

[AngelFrog]

Mixing the Covenants will only cause confusion...........what was under the Law was one thing, we are now under Grace.....the Law of Faith..............just saying........

“For I am the Lord, I do not change.”

Malachi 3:6
​

 

[p_rehbein]

“For I am the Lord, I do not change.”

Malachi 3:6
​

and He didn't change, He established His Salvation Plan for mankind..........through Two major Covenants..........Law and Grace.........now, maybe that constitutes change, but that still does not mean we are to confuse the Two Covenants.

 

[AngelFrog]

There is no right to take innocent human life in the U.S. Constitution.

There is a guarantee to legal right to legal abortion per the Constitution.

The NT does not state that all the governing authorities are obedient to God.

I didn't say it did.
Romans 13:1-7

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.


1 Peter 2:13-17

Be subject for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.


Abortion was made legal under the protections and auspices of the 9th and 14th amendment. That is why abortion today is a legal choice that a woman is legally entitled to make. She is not forced to abortion by the law. Rather, she is protected in her right to choose under the law.

The NT shows that when the governing authority requires us to personally sin, we are to disobey,
and be prepared to suffer the consequences of our decision.

That's true. Acts 5:29
But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.

When that womb contains individual human life, it is not just her business.

Yes, it is.

Our law does not allow murder of innocent human life outside the womb,

To my knowledge no one here ever said it did.

and to allow its murder inside the womb is inexcusable.

The law permits a woman to choose. If you object to abortion the law guarantees you are free not to have an abortion. However, your choice has no right to command any other woman to obey it for herself. That is equal protection under the law.

It is the shedding of innocent blood that pollutes the land (Nu 35:33; 2Kgs 24:4) and cries out
to heaven for justice (Ge 4:10), for which the Lord will judge this land (Ge 9:5; Dt 21:7-9; Ps 106:38),
which judgment is long over due.

[/QUOTE] Oh, I'd have chosen a whole different set of verses considering what we've discussed here as pertains to God commanding the Israelites to shed innocent blood across the land in the OT. And he himself doing so personally when he destroyed life, even in the womb.

 

[VCO]

Amazing! You want to penalize a woman for having an abortion by forcing her, by law, to pay for a funeral for what can be tissue the size of her big toe. Why is it you don't want to force women who suffer miscarriage to do that? How about men who have sex outside of marriage, single men or married adulterers? Should they be forced to have a prayer service for the condoms they throw away? How many children in fostering have you adopted?

ttt

Most real Christians in that situation already do have at least a grave site Funeral Service for their miscarried child. My Sister had a Funeral Service for her miscarried child and still goes to put flowers on her grave every time they go back to Nebraska. That is just part of a genuine Christian's nature.

You seem to have an anti-GOD based understanding of when a person is first considered to be a human being by GOD.

Compare your thinking to what GOD ACTUALLY SAYS IN HIS WORD:

Jeremiah 1:4-5 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

 

[AngelFrog]

and He didn't change, He established His Salvation Plan for mankind..........through Two major Covenants..........Law and Grace.........now, maybe that constitutes change, but that still does not mean we are to confuse the Two Covenants.

It's not a matter of covenants nor confusion. God does not change. The same God, our Father, who ordered abortion in the Old Testament is the same God who elected to give grace unto humanity in the New.

 

[p_rehbein]

Originally Posted by Elin

There is no right to take innocent human life in the U.S. Constitution.


There is a guarantee to legal right to legal abortion per the Constitution.

No.............better read the Constitution again...........no such clause/language exists in the Constitution. Now, the Magna Carta of the United Socialist States of America that Obama and the liberals operate under may have such language, but not the US Constitution. Sorry........

 

[AngelFrog]

I am whatever you wish to think I am! And as you demonstrate your faith and character in so labeling me.

And you choose to ignore the scriptures that tell us when man becomes a living soul and that is what you shall account for in time.
And that scripture in Jeremiah does not support your point at all.

Most real Christians in that situation already do have at least a grave site Funeral Service for their miscarried child. My Sister had a Funeral Service for her miscarried child and still goes to put flowers on her grave every time they go back to Nebraska. That is just part of a genuine Christian's nature.

You seem to have an anti-GOD based understanding of when a person is first considered to be a human being by GOD.

Compare your thinking to what GOD ACTUALLY SAYS IN HIS WORD:

Jeremiah 1:4-5 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
[SUP]5 [/SUP] “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”

 

[VCO]

There is a guarantee to legal right to legal abortion per the Constitution.

. . .

And many Governments have lost WARS because they rejected GOD's Laws and Ordinances in favor of passing laws that are evil in the sight of GOD.

When a Government becomes "filled with unrequited blood", GOD can and will send an Army to destroy them.

 

[p_rehbein]

And many Governments have lost WARS because they rejected GOD's Laws and Ordinances in favor of passing laws that are evil in the sight of GOD.

When a Government becomes "filled with unrequited blood", GOD can and will send an Army to destroy them.

this is true, but it doesn't apply here. Only reason abortion is legal in the US is because of the Roe v. Wade case that SCOTUS ruled in favor of abortion rights. Even Democrat Constitutional Scholars agree that SCOTUS overstepped it's bounds on this one, and were guilty of Legislating from the Bench. And it was a purely Partisan ruling by Liberal Jurists, and there IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL LANGUAGE that supports abortion. Is it Law? Yes. Is it according to the Constitution? No. It is according to Liberal Activist Jurists on SCOTUS.