Often misunderstood part of the Bible (1 John 1:8-19)

[Jason0047]

Okay. I'm back for a short time, phone calls.

If the man in my scenario is lost at the moment he lusts, again, let us define it as slip, a stumble, then he is out of the light. He repents, confesses, now he's back in.

Walking in the light is the result of living a penitent life.

Again, I understand and do not take lightly your attention to "God is Holy." You are right, "God cannot break His word." That truth cannot be dismissed and is a truth that will assist in our interpretation of these passages. He is holy. That truth cannot be ignored.

If we say a person is lost, or out of the light, at the point of sin, then is not walking in the light like a tennis ball. One minute we're in and the next minute we're out? One minute in the light, next minute in darkness.

Yes, a seasoned believer should know more and more discerning. Agreed.

Sin is of the heart. It emerges regardless of how hard I try to not sin.

I will continue to read this thread.

Thank you for response. I am going to consider more all you wrote. Very much appreciated.

Will also respond later.

Your welcome. I am saying we cannot "Be the Judge" of how God chooses to forgive sin according to the Bible. 1 John 1:9 tells me that if I confess my sin he is faithful and just to forgive me of my sin. How would it be fair of God to just let others be forgiven if they chose not to obey this verse (While I did)? For how would it be fair if they decided to go outside of God's Word and simply chose some other silly means of wanting to be forgiven (Like say throwing a bunch of cats inside of a bag and twirling them around or something or just having a "belief alone" in Jesus)?

Also, we are not God to know a person's heart and know all of God's Judgments or ways, either (Like with the story of Job). For we can't say that a person is not wicked (If God destroyed their life before they got a chance to repent). I know that person who dies in their sin before they got a chance to repent is wicked because they would not be forgiven according to 1 John 1:9. This is telling me God knew that this was going to be one of those apples that later turned out to be bad (or that type of person who did not truly love God). I take that by faith because of what God's Word says.

 

[dcontroversal]

Your welcome. I am saying we cannot "Be the Judge" of how God chooses to forgive sin according to the Bible. 1 John 1:9 tells me that if I confess my sin he is faithful and just to forgive me of my sin. How would it be fair of God to just let others be forgiven if they chose not to obey this verse (While I did)? For how would it be fair if they decided to go outside of God's Word and simply chose some other silly means of wanting to be forgiven (Like say throwing a bunch of cats inside of a bag and twirling them around or something or just having a "belief alone" in Jesus)?

Also, we are not God to know a person's heart and know all of God's Judgments or ways, either (Like with the story of Job). For we can't say that a person is not wicked (If God destroyed their life before they got a chance to repent). I know that person who dies in their sin before they got a chance to repent is wicked because they would not be forgiven according to 1 John 1:9. This is telling me God knew that this was going to be one of those apples that later turned out to be bad (or that type of person who did not truly love God). I take that by faith because of what God's Word says.

Your problem is you base what you believe on what seems FAIR in your eyes.....God said...I will have mercy on whom I choose to have mercy on and will harden who ever I choose to harden......It is not about what is FAIR or UNFAIR in our eyes or based upon OUR understanding...and as soon as you can figure that out and a few other things you might be on the road to understanding!

 

[Jason0047]

Any credibility you had went out the window with your contradiction found within your two statements.....period......and what is tragic is the fact that you are still blind to it and still attempt to argue your false doctrine.......

Well, not to drag you into it personally (Because I don't know your life), but for clarity on this point, a believer cannot abide in unrepentant sin and think they are saved. 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. This is not a one time event but a continued relationship and walk with the Lord.

This quote by you contradicts your above statement....

However, that said, Samson and Solomon were saved and they lived out very sinful lives. But these are examples of God's grace and mercy of how one can be saved by the skin of their teeth.

It's not a contradiction in what I said. I did not elaborate on the details (Is all). Samson and Solomon were saved in the end (By the skin of their teeth) because they ended well with God and not because they lived well with God thru out their lives.

 

[Jason0047]

Your problem is you base what you believe on what seems FAIR in your eyes.....God said...I will have mercy on whom I choose to have mercy on and will harden who ever I choose to harden......It is not about what is FAIR or UNFAIR in our eyes or based upon OUR understanding...and as soon as you can figure that out and a few other things you might be on the road to understanding!

I doubt God had Calvinism in mind with those passages. God is love and God is good. God is just and righteous. He cannot do any wrong. So yes, God is fair and just and we can tell what is good and right because not only does God give every human being a sense of right and wrong, but He gives His people knowledge of all His good ways by His Word, too. To say so otherwise is to propose that God is unrighteous. However, that is not possible because God is good.

 

[Jason0047]

But a murderer - in the context of 1 John 3 - is speaking of one NOT BORN AGAIN - ONE WHO ABIDES IN DEATH and has not passed from death unto life. Now you are moving on to other things.

Why do you continue to preach this to me? Eternal damnation is given to anyone who refuses to help the poor? In all actuality there is ONLY ONE thing that puts you IN DANGER of eternal damnation and that is one that blasphemes against the Holy Spirit - Mark 3:29

Jason - I am born again of God. I have received the gift of holy spirit whereby I am sealed until the day of redemption - none of this scares me. God has made me righteous, God has justified me, everything that is wrapped up in that gift of holy spirit belongs to me - because of something I have done? - NOPE - Christ did it all - I only have to believe in him and believe that God raised him from the dead. You need to study all the things you are in Christ . . . .

What makes you think that I just live my life helly nelly and have no remorse if I mess up?

Yes, it does say "will not inherit the kingdom of God" and as I said before:

In reference to: That is the difference of the willful sinner the bible speaks of that will not inherit eternal life

I went to Biblegateway and entered in "will not inherit eternal life" and "will not inherit everlasting life".
What do you know - 0 verses on each.

We know that God uses specific words to convey something to us - we know that He means what He says and says what He means . . .

SO . . . When He says we will not inherit the kingdom of God - wouldn't He have said "not inherit eternal life/everlasting life" if that is what He meant?

SO . . . "inherit the kingdom of God" - What exactly is meant by that? Does it have to do with our rewards? or does it actually mean eternal life?

Do you actually understand what it is to be born again of God? You BELONG to God . . .

People who are born in this world can also die. It's the same with the spiritual.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

People who are born in this world can also die. It's the same with the spiritual.

Nope . . once a child of God, once born of God, always born a child of God, always born of God. Now I have answered your questions . . . Can you answer mine? Thanks.

What makes you think that I just live my life helly nelly and have no remorse if I mess up?

We know that God uses specific words to convey something to us - we know that He means what He says and says what He means . . .

SO . . . When He says we will not inherit the kingdom of God - wouldn't He have said "not inherit eternal life/everlasting life" if that is what He meant?

SO . . . "inherit the kingdom of God" - What exactly is meant by that? Does it have to do with our rewards? or does it actually mean eternal life?

Do you actually understand what it is to be born again of God? You BELONG to God . . . Why is it that you want to sit around and place condemnation on your brothers and sisters when God doesn't even lay anything to our charge [Rom. 8:33] Christ doesn't even condemn us but makes intercession for us [Rom. 8:34]?

 

[mailmandan]

Again, how many sins does it take for you to hate your brother? One or many? It only takes one sin to hate your brother. How many sins did it take for Adam and Eve to commit in order for mankind to fall into sin? It only took one sin for Adam and Eve to fall. How many murders does it take for a person to be a murderer? It only takes one murder (sin) to be a murderer. How many times do you have to steal before you are considered a thief? It only takes one time to steal for someone to tell you that you are thief. How many sins does it take before you need to confess? One or many sins? One sin. For why on Earth would God allow you to get away with even one sin?

Problem - all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Solution - the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

So no. You are wrong. God is Holy and just. You can keep twisting these verses above until the cows come home. It doesn't change what these passages say plainly.

What am I twisting? I properly harmonized these scriptures together in order to reach my conclusion. What are you trying to make these verses say? Children of God say they have no sin and that they have not sinned, are in darkness, walk in darkness, practice sin and do not practice righteousness, and hate their brother? Is that what you believe?

For Paul says be not deceived, the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Yes, Paul said the unrighteous (not the righteous) shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Now read the rest: 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such WERE some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. In Galatians 5:19-21, Paul give a similar list of sins and states that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. John said in 1 John 3:9 - no one who is born of God practices sin.. So who are the unrighteous who are practicing sin? It's not those who are born of God.

Paul also says they that are Christ's have crucified the affections and lusts.

Amen! I agree with Paul.

For you are arguing that God would allow a person to get away with one sin. This is wrong and you know it.

When did I say that? Those who are born of God do not practice sin but that does not mean that Christians never sin at all. It isn't about God allowing us to get away with sin. Christ died to pay for our sins. We don't save ourselves through sinless perfection. If God cancelled our salvation after we commit just one sin after conversion, then none of us who be in heaven.

God is good; He is not evil and He will not allow His people to do evil under any circumstances (Not even once). Yes, God is merciful. Yes, God is not willing that any should perish. But that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

Repentance does not mean sinless perfection.

As for Romans 3: If Paul is not talking about believers in Romans 3:23, (Which is based on the context of verse 11) then what was the point you were trying to make before?

The point is simple. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23).

 

[Jason0047]

This is where you are wrong Jason as they were punished for eating of the tree of life, and the death that came to all mankind for them eating of the tree of knowledge was physical death. There would be no physical death in the world if they would not have eaten of the tree of knowledge. God makes this clear by explaining in Genesis 3:19 that because of eating of the fruit his body made from the dust of the ground it will return to dust (physical death).

This was a part of the punishment.... yes. But they did not have eternal life yet. They would need to eat of the Tree of Life in order for that to happen. So technically when God said they woul die that day it was a spiritual death and not a physcial death. God preventing them from eating of the Tree of LIfe would mean they eventually degrade in time and die. They were not created to be immortal. They needed the Tree of Life in order to be immortal.

And now because Adam and Eve no good from evil he cast them out of the garden so they could not eat from the tree of live also and become immortal at that time because they had to face chastising for what they did.

Don't really see anything about chastisement here. God said they would die that day. Seeing they did not lose Eternal life physically, logical dictates that they lost spiritual life --- whereby they would need to confess and repent of their sin like everyone else.

Suicide is not blasphemy of the Holy Spirit therefore it can not be an unforgivable sin as the Lord says blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. This is a false teaching that it is unforgivable as it was started by the RCC, but has no biblical basis. As for confessing it, that is where you are wrong as some write suicide notes and in such ask for forgiveness of it.

Not a good standard for the truth. While the RCC may has many false doctrines, they also have some correct doctrines (like the Trinity, etc.), too.

Well, some people have come back from the dead when they have committed suicide, so then it gives them a chance to repent again. So Jesus and the Bible are both still correct.

I know what 1 John 1:9 says, but you are taking it and taking the power out of the Lords hands by you stating and determining who goes to heaven and who doesn't.

Christ (God) will judge people by what standard? The answer is the Word of God. So no. 1 John 1:9 still stands.

The Lord knows everybodies heart, and you do not, therefore the Lord said He will have mercy on who He will have mercy on. But you are saying the Lord does not have mercy on nobody unless they uphold all perfectly and never slip up. The way you talk you speak as though you never sin, which is not biblical teaching.

Your problem is not with me, but it is with 1 John 1:9. Are you forgiven of sin if you confess it? Yes or no? Is there another way to be forgiven of sin without confessing sin for the believer?

We have an advocate in the Lord when we do sin again and He and only He makes that deciding judgment on who gets eternal life and who doesn't. Not us, and I seen you mention murder before also as unforgivable to. That is not correct as the worst sins a man can do are all forgivable as the Lord said.
The only one that is not is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit; Which is speaking against, denying His power, denying His gifts, and trying to directly deceive the Spirit.................

I did not write 1 John 1:9. God inspired John to write that verse.

 

[kennethcadwell]

This was a part of the punishment.... yes. But they did not have eternal life yet. They would need to eat of the Tree of Life in order for that to happen. So technically when God said they woul die that day it was a spiritual death and not a physcial death. God preventing them from eating of the Tree of LIfe would mean they eventually degrade in time and die. They were not created to be immortal. They needed the Tree of Life in order to be immortal.



Don't really see anything about chastisement here. God said they would die that day. Seeing they did not lose Eternal life physically, logical dictates that they lost spiritual life --- whereby they would need to confess and repent of their sin like everyone else.



Not a good standard for the truth. While the RCC may has many false doctrines, they also have some correct doctrines (like the Trinity, etc.), too.

Well, some people have come back from the dead when they have committed suicide, so then it gives them a chance to repent again. So Jesus and the Bible are both still correct.



Christ (God) will judge people by what standard? The answer is the Word of God. So no. 1 John 1:9 still stands.



Your problem is not with me, but it is with 1 John 1:9. Are you forgiven of sin if you confess it? Yes or no? Is there another way to be forgiven of sin without confessing sin for the believer?



I did not write 1 John 1:9. God inspired John to write that verse.

I do not have a problem with 1 John 1:9 as I agree with it, so that is a false allegation on me.
But 1 John 1:9 does not do away with the fact that the Lord will have mercy on those He chooses to have mercy on. You are placing people condemned based on just one unrepented sin, even if that sin comes in the last second of their life. Then once again you are making certain sins unforgivable that does not qualify as unforgivable, because the Lord says only one is unforgivable. You are making a handful of different sins unforgivable though which is false teaching.

The Lord judges us believers on how faithful we were to Him, and given rewards as such.

God judges the rest and determines the amount of punishment they receive in the lake of fire, as some will be punished harsher then others....

 

[Jason0047]

Problem - all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

Solution - the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is for new converts. Not sure how this relates to the seasoned beleiver who may sin, whereby they need to confess of it.

What am I twisting? I properly harmonized these scriptures together in order to reach my conclusion. What are you trying to make these verses say? Children of God say they have no sin and that they have not sinned, are in darkness, walk in darkness, practice sin and do not practice righteousness, and hate their brother? Is that what you believe?

One sin is no different than many sins. To say so otherwise is to give a person a license to sin. Doing one sin is just as bad as doing many sins. Not sure why you don't understand that concept. So we confess sins as they come up. We do not confess them whenever we accumlate a bunch of them whenever we feel like it (Which is implied by your saying that we should not confess sins individually).

Yes, Paul said the unrighteous (not the righteous) shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. Now read the rest: 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such WERE some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. In Galatians 5:19-21, Paul give a similar list of sins and states that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. John said in 1 John 3:9 - no one who is born of God practices sin.. So who are the unrighteous who are practicing sin? It's not those who are born of God.

I don't disagree with what you said here.

Amen! I agree with Paul.

When did I say that? Those who are born of God do not practice sin but that does not mean that Christians never sin at all. It isn't about God allowing us to get away with sin. Christ died to pay for our sins. We don't save ourselves through sinless perfection. If God cancelled our salvation after we commit just one sin after conversion, then none of us who be in heaven.

Then why did you say 1 John 1:9 is not for confessing individual sins? What other way do you confess sin? In batch amounts?

Repentance does not mean sinless perfection.

See. That's what I am talking about. Jesus said, be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. God's Word says be ye Holy as I am Holy. Yet what you are saying here is going against what Jesus and the Bible says.

The point is simple. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).

Past tense. This is talking about a believer's past life unless of course you want to argue verse 11 again (Which is the context).

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 6:23).

It is talking about spiritual death because all people die regardless if they are a believer or not. For it contrasts two things. Eternal life in Jesus versus death. So it is speaking spiritually.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

Someone rep Ken for me, please. #289. Says I gotta spread it around before I come back to him.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Inherit the Kingdom of God = Inherit eternal life


They are one and the same, as I felt I needed to post that as I seen one trying to treat them differently.........

 

[Jason0047]

I do not have a problem with 1 John 1:9 as I agree with it, so that is a false allegation on me.
But 1 John 1:9 does not do away with the fact that the Lord will have mercy on those He chooses to have mercy on. You are placing people condemned based on just one unrepented sin, even if that sin comes in the last second of their life. Then once again you are making certain sins unforgivable that does not qualify as unforgivable, because the Lord says only one is unforgivable. You are making a handful of different sins unforgivable though which is false teaching.

The Lord judges us believers on how faithful we were to Him, and given rewards as such.

God judges the rest and determines the amount of punishment they receive in the lake of fire, as some will be punished harsher then others....

If you were to believe 1 John 1:9, then please tell me how a person can be forgiven by confessing of their sin as it states, versus say being forgiven by not doing so? What other verse suggests that we can not admit we are sinners (or our sins) before God and cry out to Him to have mercy on us? I believe calling out to God to have mercy on us is the first step to getting right with God. Do you believe otherwise? Do you believe there is forgiveness some other way? If so, then where in the Bible does it say otherwise?

 

[mailmandan]

James says, if faith has not works it is dead. Works do not save in and of themselves, but they are the testimony that God lives within the believer and that one's faith is true.

Yes, man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine faith is evidenced by good works.

For God is the One who does the work in a believer and it is not ultimately you. For there is none good but God. So the good a believer does comes from God.

God works in the believer to do good but we don't passively stand by and do nothing.

So you can't lay any claim that I am maintaining works to keep my salvation because I believe it is not ultimately myself who does the works.

Some of your statements appear to say otherwise.

I believe life (salvation) can only be found in the Son. For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life (1 John 5:12). So if a person abides in the Son, then fruits will naturally flow thru their hearts and lives. For why do you think the elders cast down their crowns before Jesus? It's because Jesus was the one working in them

I agree with 1 John 5:12 and apart from Christ we can do nothing.

They are changed and they will have the desire to want to do those things. They work because they are servants to the Lord.

Amen!

But they realize that if they refuse to do nothing for God, then they are refusing to let God do the good work thru them (Which is a natural result of abiding with the Lord and His will).

Refusing to do anything for God as a Christian is an OXYMORON. Faith without works is dead.

Believers are bought and paid for with a price. They are not their own. A true faith will always result in good fruit. If not, it is a counterfeit faith.

Amen!

The believer realizing this, understands that there are things God wants them to do. Like study the Bible, pray, preach the gospel, help the poor, etc. If a believer decides to resist or fight against God in doing these things and just flat out refuse to do nothing for God, then they are working against God working in their life.

Is that descriptive of a genuine believer? Resists and fights against God and flat out refuses to do anything at all for God?

Now, the source of their salvation is Christ (God) (1 John 5:12). It is not in the works.

Amen!

They get their heart right with God thru confessing of their sins (1 John 1:9). Yes, 1 John 1:9 can be used confess multiple sins and even one sin.

So every time a Christian commits a sin or multiple sins, they are no longer forgiven (lost their salvation) until they confess each specific sin and if they forget one, they are toast?

For if a child who believes in Jesus Christ came up to you and was troubled that they had committed one sin, what will you tell them? Don't worry about it? No. You tell them to confess that one sin.

If I had a big argument with my wife and it was my fault, I would feel really guilty and confess to her and say I'm sorry. Not to get married all over again because she divorced me over the argument, but to restore a healthy relationship with my wife. I wouldn't tell someone to not worry about sin. When we mess up before God we confess to God that we messed up but not to regain our salvation all over again.

Hypothetically speaking, if you don't tell them to confess that one sin, then in reality, you are telling that child that sin is okay. For Jesus said if you make one of these little ones to stumble it is better that a noose be hung about your neck.

I would never tell a child that sin is okay.

I have argued against Works Salvationists many times. I have mentioned the above many times that we are not saved by works and explained how it is God working in you on this forum and even in this thread. So you are seeing something that is not there.

Then I'm hearing mixed signals from you which sounds like type 2 works salvation. You seem to be seeing something that is not there in my statements.

 

[Jason0047]

Nope . . once a child of God, once born of God, always born a child of God, always born of God. Now I have answered your questions . . . Can you answer mine? Thanks.

What makes you think that I just live my life helly nelly and have no remorse if I mess up?

We know that God uses specific words to convey something to us - we know that He means what He says and says what He means . . .

SO . . . When He says we will not inherit the kingdom of God - wouldn't He have said "not inherit eternal life/everlasting life" if that is what He meant?

SO . . . "inherit the kingdom of God" - What exactly is meant by that? Does it have to do with our rewards? or does it actually mean eternal life?

Do you actually understand what it is to be born again of God? You BELONG to God . . . Why is it that you want to sit around and place condemnation on your brothers and sisters when God doesn't even lay anything to our charge [Rom. 8:33] Christ doesn't even condemn us but makes intercession for us [Rom. 8:34]?

Once a son always a son. Not really. Not according to the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Not according to real life. For if a son is dead, they are no longer a living member of that family. They are no longer a part of it anymore. They are dead. Therein lies the difference.

 

[Jason0047]

So every time a Christian commits a sin or multiple sins, they are no longer forgiven (lost their salvation) until they confess each specific sin and if they forget one, they are toast?

More like... if they refuse to repent or confess of their sin under the conviction of the Spirit. God will try to get them to repent. If they refuse, then the Lord will withdraw His Spirit from them. For even God withdrew His Spirit from Saul. Anyways, this does not mean that they cannot come back, though (if a believer has backslidden into sin) (See James 5:19-20).

If I had a big argument with my wife and it was my fault, I would feel really guilty and confess to her and say I'm sorry. Not to get married all over again because she divorced me over the argument, but to restore a healthy relationship with my wife. I wouldn't tell someone to not worry about sin. When we mess up before God we confess to God that we messed up but not to regain our salvation all over again.

This is refreshing. I actually cannot remember the last time somebody used a real life example to illustrate spiritual truth. Um, but what you said is a little unclear, though. Please clarify. I am not sure what you are getting at.

I would never tell a child that sin is okay.

New believers can be labeled as children (Because they are babes in need of the milk of the Word). But if you believe in telling a child that sin is not okay, then we should confess our sin, if there is a sin weighing down us by the Spirit to confess, right?

Then I'm hearing mixed signals from you which sounds like type 2 works salvation. You seem to be seeing something that is not there in my statements.

Well, I don't believe in Works Salvationism and I have argued with Works Salvationists before. So you are barking up the wrong tree. I am confused by what you said when we cannot confess individual sins as per what 1 John 1:9 says.

 

[mailmandan]

This is for new converts. Not sure how this relates to the seasoned beleiver who may sin, whereby they need to confess of it.

So for the seasoned believer, sin - lost salvation - confessed - regained salvation? Genuine believers must confess their sins or will confess their sins? Confession is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.

One sin is no different than many sins. To say so otherwise is to give a person a license to sin.

That is the label that you are so eager to stamp on Christians in the OSAS camp, "license to sin." I certainly don't teach that Christians have a license to sin but I don't teach sinless perfection either (1 John 1:8-2:1).

Doing one sin is just as bad as doing many sins. Not sure why you don't understand that concept.

So killing 1 person is just as bad as killing 1,000 people? No difference at all?

So we confess sins as they come up. We do not confess them whenever we accumlate a bunch of them whenever we feel like it (Which is implied by your saying that we should not confess sins individually).

Do you take careful inventory of each and every sin that you commit as you commit them and confess each of them individually, not forgetting any? Do you believe that if you forget one you are toast? Can you give me a specific list of each and every sin that you have committed since your conversion? I never said accumulate a bunch of sins and confess them when you feel like it. You are making 1 John 1:9 out to be more complicated than it really is. Read it in context with verse 8 and 10.

I don't disagree with what you said here.

Alright then.

Then why did you say 1 John 1:9 is not for confessing individual sins? What other way do you confess sin? In batch amounts?

1 John 1:9 is in CONTRAST to verse 8 - if we say we have no sin and verse 10 - if we say we have not sinned.

See. That's what I am talking about. Jesus said, be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. God's Word says be ye Holy as I am Holy. Yet what you are saying here is going against what Jesus and the Bible says.

The word perfect comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Are you sinless and perfect, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time just like God the Father?

Past tense. This is talking about a believer's past life unless of course you want to argue verse 11 again (Which is the context).

We all have sinned and we are not sinless, without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time as believers either. Now it sounds like you are teaching sinless perfection.

It is talking about spiritual death because all people die regardless if they are a believer or not. For it contrasts two things. Eternal life in Jesus versus death. So it is speaking spiritually.

Believers receive eternal life through Jesus. Praise God! Unbelievers receive spiritual death, the wages of sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Inherit the Kingdom of God = Inherit eternal life


They are one and the same, as I felt I needed to post that as I seen one trying to treat them differently.........

Jesus said to KNOW the FATHER is to know and have eternal life......!

 

[Jason0047]

So for the seasoned believer, sin - lost salvation - confessed - regained salvation? Genuine believers must confess their sins or will confess their sins? Confession is not forced or legalistic for genuine believers.

God will only withdraw His Spirit if He knows they will just refuse in confessing of their sin. God not choosing to abide with someone who does evil and or who does not care to say they are sorry for their sin is not wrong on God's part. God is Holy and He cannot justify someone who wants to hold onto their sin.

That is the label that you are so eager to stamp on Christians in the OSAS camp, "license to sin." I certainly don't teach that Christians have a license to sin but I don't teach sinless perfection either (1 John 1:8-2:1).

Because it is true. Most who teach OSAS do not teach holiness as the requirement (Of which you just admitted here). You are saying that no believer is to be perfect which again runs contrary to what Jesus said when he told us to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect. For by saying you don't believe in sinless perfectionism is to say that you don't believe Jesus when He said to be perfect. Now, this does not mean, we will be perfect overnight. But by Jesus Christ, He will perfect us in time as we continue to walk with Him. For how can two walk together unless they are in agreement? How can one do evil and be in agreement with a Holy and righteous God?

So killing 1 person is just as bad as killing 1,000 people? No difference at all?

Sin is sin. Whether an individual murdered just 1 person or 1,000 people. God will be able to forgive them both equally the same; And if such sins were committted, then they need to both admitted before God (Regardless).

Do you take careful inventory of each and every sin that you commit as you commit them and confess each of them individually, not forgetting any? Do you believe that if you forget one you are toast?

When a seasoned believer sins, they know it (Unless they have become desensitized to sin or something in their life), in which case, they then need to repent. But if a believer is new, it is good they pray the Lord's pray if they are unsure of what sin is in their life. So the scenario you describe does not really exist. God will convict a believer to confess of their sin. If a believer keeps persisting to hold onto their sin and ignore the Spirit convicting them to repent (When they know they should), then they are in the wrong and God can withdraw from them.

Can you give me a specific list of each and every sin that you have committed since your conversion?

No. My personal life is between me and God; For it is not wise to do such things because people have lost their jobs, and many other things for admitting their thoughts and evils openly to the public. Besides, my past sins are forgiven. They have been erased by the blood of the Lamb because I went to Jesus.

I never said accumulate a bunch of sins and confess them when you feel like it. .

So we just do a generalized prayer of forgiveness on occasion? Is that it?

You are making 1 John 1:9 out to be more complicated than it really is. Read it in context with verse 8 and 10

No, I believe that is what you and others here have done. They have made 1 John 1:9 like some big hard to understand mess. I just read it and believe it. It says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So if I confess, he will forgive. It's not complicated.

1 John 1:9 is in CONTRAST to verse 8 - if we say we have no sin and verse 10 - if we say we have not sinned.

No, Verse 8 and 10 does not change verse 9.

The word perfect comes from telo, end, goal, limit. Here it is the goal set before us, the absolute standard of our Heavenly Father. The word is used also for relative perfection as of adults compared with children. Are you sinless and perfect, without fault or defect, flawless, 100% of the time just like God the Father?

Jesus says be ye perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect. Jesus is telling us to work at attaining that. You say it is a goal but you really don't believe that because you don't believe a person in Christ will reach sinless perfectionism. But yet Jesus says we are to be perfect. Who am I going to believe? You or Jesus?

We all have sinned and we are not sinless,

Again, verse 23 is in context to verse 11 that is not talking about believers who walk in the Light as He is in the Light. It is referencing how all of humanity at one time or another had sinned.

without fault or defect, flawless 100% of the time as believers either. Now it sounds like you are teaching sinless perfection.

Not me. Jesus Christ. Yes, have believers sinned. Sure. The Bible records that fact many times. But what you will not find is God approving of believers in living in an unrepentant sinful lifestyle, though. What you will find is God calling His people to be Holy as He is Holy.

Believers receive eternal life through Jesus. Praise God! Unbelievers receive spiritual death, the wages of sin.

Just because a person is a believer in Jesus Christ does not mean anything. One has to actually repent and receive Jesus Christ and be transformed spirtually (Whereby good fruit will be evident in their life). They need to be a new creature in Christ. This is by the operation of God working in a person when they truly have humbled themselves before God and desired to be saved for real (With a Godly sorrow and not a worldly sorrow).

 

[SoulWeaver]

God will only withdraw His Spirit if He knows they will just refuse in confessing of their sin. God not choosing to abide with someone who does evil and or who does not care to say they are sorry for their sin is not wrong on God's part. God is Holy and He cannot justify someone who wants to hold onto their sin.

Why would He give His spirit to them in the first place?