Wondering about dating etiquette?

[Shouryu]

finally, to the OP...i really, really hope you avoid romantic relationships for a long time. seriously. after going out on some dates with divorced guys, i'd highly encourage you to take the time to do a real relationship autopsy of your failed marriage, and learn what it is you need to learn from it. you owe that to yourself and your future relationship and relationship partner. also, if you're harboring ANY ill will towards your ex, it will come out in all kinds of ways, and it will scream to every astute woman that you are not ready for a new relationship (something so very unattractive, yet common that i could write a book on this). look at this as an opportunity to be MORE CAPABLE for the next relationship by learning what it is that you need to know, whom it is you're looking for, and leaving your baggage behind.

no one deserves to pay the price for what your ex did, the resentment you've developed, be your "soft place to fall" or play therapist to your wounded ego/soul. you need to work out that stuff alone, with God. and a trained therapist, ideally.

WHY CAN'T I LIKE THIS MORE THAN ONCE?!?!?
(Apparently, I do not spread reputation around enough. -_- )

Seriously though, brother...Gypsy hits the nail on the head with this. A broken heart that stems from a broken union is not something quickly mended; our God is a God who takes us THROUGH the pain, not away from or around it. There must be real time for healing, and it cannot be the responsibility of your next companion (should God see fit to bless you with one) to heal those wounds.

God didn't even present me (or my...uh...sort-of-significant-other) with ANY kind of remotely attractive options until He was done with the healing process in me. I had said for two years that I felt ready, but HE knew better, and made things available in HIS time. Have patience, brother.

 

[Cee]

Friend zone her first. You'll usually be able to tell if she wants out of the friend zone and if she doesn't you have a great friend. And having lots of girls as friends is never a bad thing! Hint: they have friends who are girls too and a good word from her won't hurt your first impression chances.

C.

 

[gypsygirl]

"Sorry, I can't see you Friday night because I already have a date with this other woman.."

Yeaaa.. that probably won't go over too well..

are you putting those words in my mouth? actually, i was quite clear when i said that was neither the point of having friendships, nor the actual outcome. : )

from what I have seen, women generally do not touch anyone in the friend zone. they will have the best guy in the world in that zone but won't touch him, she usually ends up running out with some five time loser and when it ends goes crawling back to the friend zone guy crying about the five time loser.

so i call bogus on the "women will chose from the friend zone" comment.

you may call bogus on my ACTUAL dating experience, but i'd also suggest that what you've shared speaks more to the kind of women that you are "observing". also, i can think of several women who not only agree with me, but have very similar experiences.

p.s. since when do you have friends? ; p

Gypsygirl, some good advice there,

One of the first things i did when my marriage was over was to realize i do not want to continue on the same, i do not want to go through this again, yes there are no guarantees i know, but the person that i was in my marriage, gosh, cringe worthy! the potential to improve my chances in the future from the person that i was is literally staggering. But also i have a very good foundation to build upon, and there are many things i can be proud of. I was never unfaithful, i was always supportive, i never ever swore at my wife or shouted at her in anger, i was always gentle, always there for her, always honest, a great father to our child (which she herself told me many times). I never got drunk, never flirted with other women, never gambled or spent money on myself.

My area of deficiency springs from low self esteem, and my wife in her struggle to get what she wanted out of the relationship, did exactly all the wrong things to 'rub salt' so to speak against my low self esteem. I became depressed and cynical and unmotivated.

So my big life lesson has been to learn to like myself, and it is quite amazing how this one little thing can create such transformation, amazing, i just wish it had not taken me so long to learn!! So yes, i do feel like i am ready to start dating, but i am very cautious, i would feel better to at least wait until the divorce is finalized, and i still have allot to learn (as will always be the case).

Oh and i don't carry any bitterness towards my wife, although obviously i am not happy about not being allowed to try anything to save the marriage, i do acknowledge the divorce has opened the door to opportunity to find the healing and happiness that we could not find together.

i am very inclined to agree with what grace-like-rain shared earlier about "taking things slow" and her reference to "the stages of healing take time".

not to jump on you, but even your characterization of your wife tells me that you aren't ready. she may be a vile person, and walked on your back. but at the end of the day, your perspective and telling of it kind of suggests that you aren't ready to explain or have an answer for how you chose this person, and how your actions may have contributed, exacerbated, or possibly even might have eliminated many of these problems.

while you both may have had problems, such as low self esteem, you are kind of presenting her as someone who victimized you, instead of acknowledging the shared responsibility for your failed marriage. she may have not chosen to allow you to attempt to repair it (before calling it quits), but that doesn't absolve you of any responsibility for its demise (up to, and including, how and why you chose this woman in the first place).

further, you describe yourself and your actions as causation to her own. this is not the picture of a marriage, relationship or even anything short of co-dependency.

i'm not saying any of this to either blame you or create any defensiveness. only to be helpful and suggest that perhaps you're feeling more "ready" than your own words suggest (to me). but it sounds like off to a great start and that i hope you get lots of support, encouragement and advice from others who have been in your shoes, such as what was recommended by grace-like-rain.

 

[zeroturbulence]

are you putting those words in my mouth? actually, i was quite clear when i said that was neither the point of having friendships, nor the actual outcome. : )

I honestly haven't even read any of the replies. Its sort of a habit of mine..

 

[wisebeardman]

you may call bogus on my ACTUAL dating experience, but i'd also suggest that what you've shared speaks more to the kind of women that you are "observing". also, i can think of several women who not only agree with me, but have very similar experiences.

p.s. since when do you have friends? ; p

I observe many, I sit back and watch and listen. seen it time and time again. As for me personally, you friend zone me, don't expect anything ever going beyond that cause you done burned that bridge. I give one chance and one chance only.

as for me having friends, I have few. very very few people make it to that label.

 

[VioletReigns]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!! Too much thoughts!! Too much thoughts!! Abort mission!!



Mother of Pearl, I would never put so much mental concentration on a relationship. It's too much like a labyrinth of do's & don'ts. If it ain't easy and light, I don't want it.

 

[jeremyPJ]

It was mentioned earlier that you should not rush things. I used to think that way, but felt like I lost out before by not acting quickly enough.

However with my last experience I have learned to take my time, esp. as we get older, we've been through more things and takes longer to decide yes, or no.

Love is a very confusing game. I've come to the conclusion that we never really understand it, so I guess we just go with the flow. If it works, okay. If not, okay.

 

[seoulsearch]

This is just me, but I personally don't date anyone who hasn't been out of a relationship for at least a year, depending on their situation and frame of mind. I used to be the person who could never be alone. I had 12 years of almost constantly being in long-term relationships and now almost 12 years of being single and out of relationships.

"Back in the day" all I could think about was, "I can't be alone... I can't wind up alone..." ESPECIALLY during and after my divorce. My personal opinion is that, ironically, it's very unhealthy to be with anyone while in that frame of mine.

My thought process now is more like, "Well, I don't WANT to end up alone but..." My goals have shifted. I have life plans such as travel, volunteering, learning and creating, and I hope to find someone with similar outlooks on life. I now see a significant other as a complement to life, not the end all be all or key to having one.

I believe that when you're going through a heartbreak, if one is honest, two thoughts are often what keeps them going (besides raising a family, if they have one--I did not): "Wow, I have total freedom now... I can get out there and do what I want and find someone else!" and, the thought that I think most everyone thinks but might not want to admit, "I can find someone better. Someone who loves me more, is better-looking, is a better parent, has a stronger faith..."

In other words, they are looking for Ultimate Significant Other Version 8.0. Anyone who dates someone in that mind frame will be analyzed, compared, weighed, and measured, and often left behind when the results of the data are computed and they find you don't add up or outperform Significant Other 1.0.

Which is terribly intimidating, to say the least.

I'm hoping to find someone who realizes that a significant other is a part of the puzzle... but not THE key to the puzzle itself.

 

[mystikmind]

Thanks to all for the helpful advice.

It is kindof a co-incidence that the same day i raised this post i got a very big test of my character came my way this afternoon.

It has been the case that ever since my wife moved out there have been excuses why my daughter never gets to stay overnight with me. Today i asked my wife that i want to take her Friday night and bring back Saturday afternoon. She said no, she is not comfortable for my daughter to stay overnight with me and i can only see her Saturday morning and bring her back by lunch time. Her reasons - i fall asleep too easily, i don't feed her, she came home with a stomach ache last time i had her. Of course i feed her, and i am a good sleeper, but not out of the ordinary, and i explained to my wife that children will get sick from time to time, that's just life. But no, apparently she thinks children only get sick when looked after by irresponsible fathers.

Before the divorce, she would always say i was such a good father, when she ended the marriage, she was telling me how much she wanted to try and maintain a friendly parental relationship. I guess i did not realize what that really meant was a friendly parental relationship exclusively on her terms!

So, i am faced with the realization there will be no friendly parental relationship, and i am faced with the deep disappointment of what little respect i had left for my wife, and i am faced with the realization i am going to have to go to court before i will get any kind of realistic level of custody.

With all this i am faced, i am upset for a couple of hours, but i know i do not want to give in to hate, that will not take me in any direction i want to go. I am not going to contribute any negativity to this situation from my side. I am going to be patient and i am going to be tolerant. my wife is walking down a path of bitterness and hatred, and i feel sorry for her.

 

[mystikmind]

This is just me, but I personally don't date anyone who hasn't been out of a relationship for at least a year, depending on their situation and frame of mind. I used to be the person who could never be alone. I had 12 years of almost constantly being in long-term relationships and now almost 12 years of being single and out of relationships.

"Back in the day" all I could think about was, "I can't be alone... I can't wind up alone..." ESPECIALLY during and after my divorce. My personal opinion is that, ironically, it's very unhealthy to be with anyone while in that frame of mine.

My thought process now is more like, "Well, I don't WANT to end up alone but..." My goals have shifted. I have life plans such as travel, volunteering, learning and creating, and I hope to find someone with similar outlooks on life. I now see a significant other as a complement to life, not the end all be all or key to having one.

I believe that when you're going through a heartbreak, if one is honest, two thoughts are often what keeps them going (besides raising a family, if they have one--I did not): "Wow, I have total freedom now... I can get out there and do what I want and find someone else!" and, the thought that I think most everyone thinks but might not want to admit, "I can find someone better. Someone who loves me more, is better-looking, is a better parent, has a stronger faith..."

In other words, they are looking for Ultimate Significant Other Version 8.0. Anyone who dates someone in that mind frame will be analyzed, compared, weighed, and measured, and often left behind when the results of the data are computed and they find you don't add up or outperform Significant Other 1.0.

Which is terribly intimidating, to say the least.

I'm hoping to find someone who realizes that a significant other is a part of the puzzle... but not THE key to the puzzle itself.

I really do have quite an overabundance of 'alone time' in my life.

When i experienced my first love, i was probably 19 or 20 years old, it only lasted a couple of weeks, but afterwards, i never dated again until i was 27 years old! For me, my natural reaction to a break up is the desire to never love again!

For me, dating is a conscious choice that defies my fears and helps me grow as a person, it is a good test to see if i am ready to take the next step towards starting a relationship. Well, that's the plan, but, how to date without getting drawn into a relationship too soon, that is the question?

 

[mystikmind]

hmmm, yea, those years i wasted after my first love is a big regret for me, so i am a bit oversensitive to wasting time

 

[Lynx]

"Not every test is to prove you are good enough.
Sometimes a test comes to reveal things you need to work on some more."

 

[Lynx]

It was mentioned earlier that you should not rush things. I used to think that way, but felt like I lost out before by not acting quickly enough.

However with my last experience I have learned to take my time, esp. as we get older, we've been through more things and takes longer to decide yes, or no.

Love is a very confusing game. I've come to the conclusion that we never really understand it, so I guess we just go with the flow. If it works, okay. If not, okay.

No, wait... that move also loses. Hmm... how about a nice game of chess?

 

[mystikmind]

"Not every test is to prove you are good enough.
Sometimes a test comes to reveal things you need to work on some more."

And probably a hundred more reasons! Another good thing for me to test is patience, right now, with my wife, that will be challenging enough until everything is sorted out.

 

[mystikmind]

Update:

After a great deal of further thought regarding the custody situation with my wife, something else occurred to me.

In this whole divorce i have operated under the assumption that my wife is ok and i am the one who has to rebuild. But when i look more closely at my wife's quite bizarre accusations, i have to wonder, there is an element of paranoid delusional thinking here. I am not saying she 'is' delusional, but there is a hint things are sliding in that direction.

I am rethinking my assumption that my wife is ok? I am worried for her..... I think i am going to try and schedule a counseling session for myself next week, i will tell them exactly what my wife has said and done and see if they think i have anything to worry about, and if there is, what i should do about it? If not, then what then i will still ask them what i need to do to prevent this divorce from turning into a bitter court battle, or if that is even possible at this point?

 

[jeremyPJ]

No, wait... that move also loses. Hmm... how about a nice game of chess?

judging from this post, I believe my message and intentions are being misinterpreted. I.E., don't read it quite so literally.

 

[mystikmind]

So coming back to my original question, no one really seems to know the answer?

People seem to focus on the importance of being relationship ready, this much i know, and it is a very specific thing to each individual, there are no clear cut rules to follow, just basic principles - i guess this is the same for dating?

 

[Fenner]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeekkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!! Too much thoughts!! Too much thoughts!! Abort mission!!

View attachment 102174

Mother of Pearl, I would never put so much mental concentration on a relationship. It's too much like a labyrinth of do's & don'ts. If it ain't easy and light, I don't want it.

Preach it Sista, I feel the same way.

 

[Fenner]

So coming back to my original question, no one really seems to know the answer?

People seem to focus on the importance of being relationship ready, this much i know, and it is a very specific thing to each individual, there are no clear cut rules to follow, just basic principles - i guess this is the same for dating?

Yep, at least I think so.

 

[Fenner]

Update:

After a great deal of further thought regarding the custody situation with my wife, something else occurred to me.

In this whole divorce i have operated under the assumption that my wife is ok and i am the one who has to rebuild. But when i look more closely at my wife's quite bizarre accusations, i have to wonder, there is an element of paranoid delusional thinking here. I am not saying she 'is' delusional, but there is a hint things are sliding in that direction.

I am rethinking my assumption that my wife is ok? I am worried for her..... I think i am going to try and schedule a counseling session for myself next week, i will tell them exactly what my wife has said and done and see if they think i have anything to worry about, and if there is, what i should do about it? If not, then what then i will still ask them what i need to do to prevent this divorce from turning into a bitter court battle, or if that is even possible at this point?

I hope it doesn't turn into that either, I will pray for you. God Bless.