Jason, I won't deal with the "martyrdom" comments in your post,
Where did I persecute you verbally on a personal level? I did not name you or come out and attack you specifically. You are imagining a persecution that does not exist. If I judged anyone, it is only those who constantly try to slander me falsely (Like DC and others). Also, last I checked, it is not wrong to talk about the topic of Soteriology and mention how certain (But not all) people can behave badly who hold to a certain salvation type belief. I am merely expressing my experience with a select group of those who hold to a certain belief. There was no name calling and or slandering, etc. I am merely telling what I know in truth.
Besides, it's not wrong to say the Westboro Baptist Church is cruel in the way they treat people. The Scriptures even say to reprove the unfruitful works of darkness. So if someone does wrong or evil, it is not wrong for me to point that out.
but I will deal with your list of "OSAS dark secrets" and explain to you why they are biblical truth, not the lies you want to make them out to be.
They are not lies but they are pure logical deductions of what we know to be true and good.
Paul writes in Ephesians of our forgiveness at salvation, when our sins are removed from us "as far as east is from west" (Psalm 103:12).
Scripture says only past sins are forgiven. Psalm 103:12 does not say future sin is forgiven. That wouldn't make any sense if it did say that because the Israelites had to keep revisting the same sins year after year.
Ephesians 1, NASB
6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
8(a) which He lavished on us.
When you read Ephesians 1, you also have to read Ephesians 5 that says no unclean person or covetous man has any inheritance in the Kingdom of God or Christ. Paul says be not deceived on this point.
Besides, none these verses actually say anthing about how future sin is forgiven.
I mean, think about it; I have used real world examples to illustrate spiritual truth like Jesus did with his parables.
Can you do the same with OSAS?
Well, I have a confidence that you will not be able to do so, my friend (Which should give you pause).
You love to quote 1 John 1 to "prove" lost salvation through sin following the giving of the Holy Spirit, but you misunderstand the passage. Ephesians 1:6-8 establishes that we are forever in Christ once we believe. 1 John1:5-10 speaks relationally, as father to son. When a son wrongs his father, the relationship is damaged, but it does not severe it.
1 John 1:9 does not say...
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to restore our fellowship Him, even though we have been forgiven of all our sins, past, present, and future."
It says.
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
A son is always a son regardless of whether he has a loving relationship with his father or not. So it is with us in Christ. Our sin hinders the relationship. It does not severe it. We are "adopted" -- uioqesia (huiothesia),the Roman legal term for adoption. It is no accident it is used. Under the law of uioqesia, an adopted son could not be disowned, though a natural son could be. Get it?
The father considered his son dead when he went prodigal. In other words, a son cannot be functional member of the family and spend time with each other or talk with each other if he is dead. A dead son does not continue to participate in family events.
For the believer, sin will not result in spiritual death -- ever!
1 John 3
14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
The phrase "passed out of death" is the Greek metabaino qanatoß, metabaino thanatos, meaning "depart from the realm of physical death." It couldn't be any more plain than that.
Well, this mentions nothing about how it is only physical death that will effect the believer if he sins. Also, the passage does not say he cannot die spiritually, either. It is speaking in the present moment. For if one does not love the brethren then one abides in death. In other words, this is a Conditional Statement. If a believer chooses to not love the brethren, then they are abiding in death. This is in context to spiritual death, because verse 15 says they have no eternal life abiding in them if they were to not love their brother (See verse 15).
As pointed out above, "fellowship" and "relationship" are different. You can be out of fellowship, but the relationship cannot be broken. God would not say He has "adopted" us if the relationship could be broken.
Actually, there are several passages that tell us that you cannot be out of fellowship with God and be saved.
#1. 1 John 5:12 says He that has the Son has life and He that does not have the Son does not have life. Life is associated with eternal life or salvation.
#2. John 17:3 says eternal life is in knowing the one true God, Jesus Christ. Knowing implies a fellowship. So if you don't know Jesus, then you don't have life (Salvation).
#3. Romans 8:9 says if he a man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him.
#4. Psalm 73:27 says God will destroy all those who abandon Him (or go a whoring from Him).
#5. John 15:6 says if a man does not abide in Him, he is cast forth and burned.
#6. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.
#7. Romans 11:21-22 says if you do not continue in his goodness you will be cut off. For if God spared not the natural branches (i.e. the Jews), take heed that he can do the same to you (i.e. Gentile believers). The analogy here is that you are branch and Christ is the tree. We need to continue in Christ's righteousness or goodness, not our own righteousness or goodness, or we will be cut off because of unbelief.
Also, when you say that a believer can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved, this implies that they are out of fellowship because of sin. Meaning, you are teaching a sin and still be saved doctrine. Which is a doctrine of immorality or evil.
God has forgiven all our sins through Christ on the cross. Thinking you have to remember every sin you ever committed -- and I'll guarantee, no one can -- or that an "unconfessed sin condemns us" is completely unbiblical.
Colossians 2
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
1st John is not a Bible Tract that is written to an unbeliever coming to the faith for the first time. So 1 John 1:9 is not done at initial salvation or acceptance of Christ. 1 John 1:9 is for the person who has already accepted Christ. For when a person first acccepts Jesus Christ, they admit they are a sinner and ask Christ to save them from their sins and accept Him as their personal Savior. However, if a believer sins after they have accepted Christ, they are to confess their sins. For when a person accepts Christ for the first time, they ask God to save them from their sinful past. But if they sin again, then the Holy Spirit will convict them to repent or confess of their sin.
As for Colossians 2:13-14:
Colossians 2 is about a person's acceptance of Christ and His finished work and then remaining in Him (Making sure they are not spoiled by the traditions of men). Verse 12 says we are buried with him in baptism and we are risen with him. Verse 13 says we were dead in our sin and he has quickened us with Him and forgiven us of our sin (Which is talking about our acceptance of him). Verse 14 talks about how Christ had blotted out the ceremonial laws within the Law of Moses (In the Old Testament) and conquered the powers of darkness (Which is talking about what Christ did for us on the cross). 1 John 1:9 is not about one's initial acceptance. Yet Colossians 2:13 is dealing with our initial acceptance of Him (i.e. the beginning of our faith). 1 John 1:9 deals with maintaining a right standing with God because it says if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins. So being forgiven of "all" trespasses in Colossians 2:13 cannot be in reference to future sin but only past sins that we committed. This is further backed up by the next chapter in Colossians 3. It talks about how we put off the old man and his deeds. We are told to mortify our members concerning uncleanness, covetousness, idolatry (of which sake the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience). Meaning, the Wrath of God comes upon all those who sin and or who are disobedient. This is obvious in the fact that Paul has said elsewhere that those who commit such things (sins) shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
But again, this does not address those believers who have committed suicide because they believed in OSAS. This is a bad fruit. A doctrine that can lead people to kill themselves. But Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit (and vise versa).
If any sin could break God's promise, He would not say He has made us alive together with Him. He wouldnt' say He has forgiven us our transgressions. He wouldn't say He has canceled the "certificate of debt." He wouldn't say He has "taken it out of the way ... nailed it to the cross." If you can read these words and still believe anything must "do" or "say" something to "keep" your salvation, you haven't truly read God's word with any understanding at all.
As I've explained above, the use of the word uioqesia (huiothesia) is deliberate, beingthe Roman legal term for adoption. Under the law of uioqesia, an adopted son could not be disowned. We are uioqesia, and God would be a liar, He would break man's law and His own, if He "disowned" us.
This is a ludicrous inclusion in your list. You can't find a biblical verse that says it sin breaks any seal placed on us by God. Claiming you have one, Jason, makes you a liar.
When a document like this is received, the first thing that is observed is whether or not the seal is intact. If the seal was broken then the representative would know that some tampering occurred and the document would be considered void and the inheritance denied.
This is Paul's analogy. We must protect our covenant with God and not seek to break the seal of the Holy Spirit.
Was it possible for a Roman citizen to break the wax seal? Of course it was. This is also true of one who breaks the seal of the Holy Spirit. That is why blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is the only sin that cannot be forgiven. If you look at various verses that speak of falling away, you will see that this sin against the Holy Spirit is linked to Apostasy.
Hebrews 6:4
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Hebrews 6:5
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 10:29 29
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
This is why Paul warned us not to tamper with our seal.
Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
This is a big problem with Christendom, today. A false security is being preached. Once sealed, always sealed! The Word of God does not agree nor support that. Remember, these letters are written to Followers of Christ. The Early Church did not believe OSAS.
Here are some examples:
1 Timothy 1:19-20
19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Paul warned Timothy to guard his faith. He stated clearly that some had abandoned their faith and shipwrecked. Then he named two acquaintances, Hymenaeus and Alexander, who became apostates by blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Did you know that the Word of God says that our faith can be overthrown?
2 Timothy 2:16-18
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
Hymenaeus was not content to make shipwreck of his own faith. Now, we find him teaching false doctrine [eschatology] and thereby overthrowing the faith of others. Sounds like he was teaching Preterism.
2 Timothy 4:10
For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; ...
Paul warned Timothy extensively about the lure of materialism. Apparently, many believers had quit and become entangled in the lust for money.
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
This brings to mind the parable of the Sower. Remember, some fell among "thorns." Jesus said the "thorns" were the cares of this world and the love of money, which after the seed has sprouted, and begun to grow, they choke the Word, and the plant dies.
These examples of Christians who's faith failed because of a love of money or power demonstrate that the warnings in Scripture about falling away are real.
Here is a conditional promise. Can you tell me what the condition is?
Romans 11:20-22
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shall be cut off.
Source Used:
http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/16272-can-seals-be-broken/
