Plato, Aristotle, St. Augustine and St. Thomas: Masters of Theology

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Elin

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#181
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#181
Dan_473 said:
well, one example would be speaking with 'new tongues', I think in the rest of the nt it's usually just called 'tongues'.
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Is anything altered by its inclusion?

And I suspect any language one is not familiar with would be considered a "new" tongue.
 
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Elin

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#182
Dan_473 said:
yes, exactly!
What their definitions in the Greek meant, and that would be a product of how the word was used in the past, and influenced at least in part by philosophers. Did the apostles sometimes add to or use a special meaning? Yes. It's just like the english use of 'cool' which now has a meaning in addition to 'low temperature'.
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Yes, classical Greek may have been influenced by the philosophers,
but do you have proof that every word, or any word, in koine Greek was "influenced" by philosophy,
or use of any slang Greek in the NT?

All hypothetical assumptions. . .
 
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Elin

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#183
Jan 19, 2013
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#183
Dan_473 said:
it doesn't appear in Luke, either... so, is it part of the nt? Jesus is teaching about prayer...
does his example of a good prayer have praise at the end?
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Are the red letters the only word of God in the NT?

Is that the only example of prayer in the NT?

Do any others have praise at the end?

Is praise at the end of a prayer forbidden if none are found in the NT?

More hypothetical non-issues. . .
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#187
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#187
Elin said:
However, its content is found in 1Chr 29:11; Da 7:14, and it alters the meaning of nothing in the NT,
making it, therefore, immaterial.
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well, one question is, which way should we pray? what was Jesus teaching?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#188
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#188
Elin said:
That's not the way the NT views it in the gospel of John 6:44, 65, 37, 39 or Romans 8:7-8.

The unregenerate (not born again) sinful nature is
hostile to God (his enemy),
does not submit to his law (insubordinate),
nor can it do so (spiritually impotent), and
cannot please God (unacceptabe).
(Ro 8:7-8)

Apart from the work of the Holy Spirit in their heart, no sinner receives and believes Jesus.

Sinners in Jesus' day didn't receive him because he was "new and refreshing," they received him only because of the work of the Holy Spirit in their hearts (Jn 6:44, 65, 37, 39).
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in Athens, Paul is not beaten or arrested... to me, that's a better mindset than other cities had...
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#189
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#189
Elin said:
Faith is certainty.

It is the nature of faith to be certain (Heb 11:1), to know (1Jn 3:14, 16 19, 24).
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Peter talks about growing in the knowledge of Jesus... this implies to me that one can always learn new things, which means that one's current knowledge and understanding is held lightly...
 
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Elin

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Jan 19, 2013
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#190
Dan_473 said:
Elin said:
Faith is certainty.

It is the nature of faith to be certain (Heb 11:1), to know (1Jn 3:14, 16 19, 24).
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Peter talks about growing in the knowledge of Jesus... this implies to me that one can always learn new things, which means that
one's current knowledge and understanding is held lightly...
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That assumes what was formerly learned is unseated.

Growing in knowledge of Jesus implies first of all true knowledge of Jesus, or it is not knowledge of Jesus, it is only supposed knowledge of Jesus.

Growing in knowledge of Jesus is growing in depth of mind and heart understanding of true knowledge, and such knowledge is not held lightly.
 
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Elin

Banned
#191
Jan 19, 2013
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#191
Dan_473 said:
Elin said:
That's not the way the NT views it in the gospel of John 6:44, 65, 37, 39 or Romans 8:7-8.

The unregenerate (not born again) sinful nature is
hostile to God (his enemy),
does not submit to his law (insubordinate),
nor can it do so (spiritually impotent), and
cannot please God (unacceptabe).
(Ro 8:7-8)

Apart from the work of the Holy Spirit in their heart, no sinner receives and believes Jesus.

Sinners in Jesus' day didn't receive him because he was "new and refreshing," they received him only because of the work of the Holy Spirit in their hearts
(Jn 6:44, 65, 37, 39).
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in Athens, Paul is not beaten or arrested... to me, that's a better mindset than other cities had...
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Meaning?. . .

That could be because the philosophical approach is more in agreement with the mindset of the world
and caused no animosity (1Co 1:20-31, 3:18-21).

Are any conversions in Athens by Paul at that time reported?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#192
Elin said:
Or didn't work at all in Athens for him. . .
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It worked at least some, some people believed. Since we don't know how well it worked, imo we can't draw a conclusion about Athens/Corinth...
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#193
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#193
Elin said:
However, we find these very things occurring in Acts after his death.

So all is in agreement. . .no confusion or "loops."
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Jesus actually states it (maybe), which is different from an event simply occuring...people do all kinds of things in Acts... should we do them all?

so, I think there is a material difference if Jesus actually stated it.
 
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Elin

Banned
#194
Jan 19, 2013
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#194
Dan_473 said:
Elin said:
However, its content is found in 1Chr 29:11; Da 7:14, and
it alters the meaning of nothing in the NT, making it, therefore, immaterial.
Click to expand...
well, one question is, which way should we pray? what was Jesus teaching?
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Do you think he was teaching there is the only way to pray?
 
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Elin

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#195
Jan 19, 2013
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#195
Dan_473 said:
It worked at least some, some people believed. Since we don't know how well it worked, imo we can't draw a conclusion about Athens/Corinth...
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Absolutely. . .without clear evidence, we cannot draw a conclusion regarding the relation of Athens to Corinth.

However, we can draw a conclusion regarding the unsaved scribe, scholar and philospher's view of the cross; i.e., foolishness and a stumbling block.
 
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Elin

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#196
Jan 19, 2013
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#196
Dan_473 said:
Elin said:
However, we find these very things occurring in Acts after his death.

So all is in agreement. . .no confusion or "loops."
Click to expand...
Jesus actually states it (maybe), which is different from an event simply occuring...people do
all kinds of things in Acts... should we do them all?

so, I think there is a material difference if Jesus actually stated it.
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Are we told to "go and do likewise" regarding Apostolic miracles in Acts or anywhere else?

The events in Acts do not alter the meaning of the NT, they are the meaning of the NT.

Differences are material when they alter the meaning of the NT.

Otherwise, they have no affect on NT revelation.

What part of this principle do you not understand?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

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#197
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#197
Elin said:
Is anything altered by its inclusion?

And I suspect any language one is not familiar with would be considered a "new" tongue.
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yes. 'tongues' would, imo, in greek, have the connotation of 'language'... so, a 'new tongue' would seem to indicate a 'new language', that is, one not spoken by humans...
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#198
Mar 11, 2014
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#198
Elin said:
Yes, classical Greek may have been influenced by the philosophers,
but do you have proof that every word, or any word, in koine Greek was "influenced" by philosophy,
or use of any slang Greek in the NT?

All hypothetical assumptions. . .
Click to expand...
well, if classical greek was influenced by the philosophers, and koine greek is decended from classical, then it follows that some influence decended as well...

no, I don't of every word, yes to some words... an easy example is 'Stoic' which obviously is influenced by the philosophers, imo...
 
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Elin

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#199
Jan 19, 2013
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#199
Dan_473 said:
well, if classical greek was influenced by the philosophers, and koine greek is decended from classical, then it follows that some influence decended as well...

no, I don't of every word, yes to some words...
an easy example is 'Stoic' which obviously is influenced by the philosophers, imo...
Click to expand...
However the word is nowhere used in the NT to refer to anything other than the sect of Greek philosophers themselves who went by that name.

So again, a hypothetical issue. . .
 
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Elin

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#200
Jan 19, 2013
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#200
Dan_473 said:
yes. 'tongues' would, imo, in greek, have the connotation of 'language'... so,
a 'new tongue' would seem to indicate a 'new language', that is, one not spoken by humans...
Click to expand...
Or one not spoken by the human who heard it. . .
 
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