Hebrews 6:1-6

[SarahM777]

You missed the whole jist of the parable.

the son left.

He hit rock bottom because he missed his fathers things why? because he has nothing in himself. when you have all God gives you, and that is gone, you KNOW WHAT IT MEANS TO BE POOR AND HOPLELESS

This caused him to return.

a son will ALWAYS return, because when they leave the father, HE SUFFERS SEVER LOSS. greater than if he had never been a son before.

I don't know. maybe you do not have God and do not realize what great riches we have in christ, thus would not miss it if you left? thats the ONLY way I can come to a conclusion why you or anyone would thank a person would lose faith, or want to go back to the world. they have not experienced what God gives ALL who he adopts. for in my mind, there is no other reason anyone would belief such things

I left God for 5 years. i hit that rock bottom. I KNOW WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A PRODIGAL.

What you think about the matter MEANS NOTHING if it is not based on the whole teaching of scripture. What God states about the matter is the TRUTH,not our feelings nor our thoughts if it DOES NOT LINE UP scripture.

Are you saying you are looking for the stuff that Christ can give you? Is that all you looking for is the stuff?

 

[kennethcadwell]

[SUP]26[/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Here the writer was speaking to Jews who were considering whether to respond to Christ or avoid persecution by remaining Jews. He says now that they have heard of Christ they have no alternative. It is Christ or judgment. The old sacrifices for sin are no longer valid.

speak up the Christian who has never sinned wilfully. We have all sinned wilfully after being saved. What then is the consequence? If we have received the knowledge of Christian truth we cannot look back to the old sacrifices for sin because they look to the old dispensation which is no longer valid to those who know of Christ. If we want to be forgiven for wilful sins we can only look to Christ's sacrifice for sin on our behalf. That is the only sacrifice which is now valid..

Here is the issue though as the willful sinner the bible is referring to is not how we willfully sin, but is a person who continues to deliberately keep sinning everyday without repenting/confessing of those sins. The writer of Hebrews includes themselves in this passage saying, "if we," and not just if you.
He is giving a strict warning that once you are in Christ you can not continue to live in willful sins (walk in the flesh) and receive eternal life both. His sacrifice means nothing to those who trample His blood underfoot by continuing to walk enmity to God. Which is why it goes on to say those who do this will face judgment and a fiery indignation that will devour the enemies of God, as in tossed into the lake of fire and destroyed.

 

[valiant]

If it is not possible then you should be able to PROVE it by ALL the scriptures and the matter and not a verse here and there taken out of context. If is NOT POSSIBLE for a believer to walk away PROVE IT FROM SCRIPTURE.

This is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of ALL Whom He has given me I should lose NOTHING but should raise him up at the last day (John 6.39). The question is, is He capable of doing what He has said? If He is then He will lose nothing.

And He will seek it until He finds it. (Luke 15.4).

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow me and I give to them eternal life, and they will NEVER perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. (John 10.27-28)

There were two dangers for a sheep. 1) that it should wilfully wander off and be lost. NO says Jesus they will NEVER PERISH.

2) That some wild beast snatches them away from the flock. NO says Jesus, none shall pluck them from My hand.

Guaranteed eternal security, if you think you can trust Jesus.

See also 1 Cor 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.12). Thank you LORD.

 

[dcontroversal]

This is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of ALL Whom He has given me I should lose NOTHING but should raise him up at the last day (John 6.39). The question is, is He capable of doing what He has said? If He is then He will lose nothing.

And He will seek it until He finds it. (Luke 15.4).

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow me and I give to them eternal life, and they will NEVER perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. (John 10.27-28)

There were two dangers for a sheep. 1) that it should wilfully wander off and be lost. NO says Jesus they will NEVER PERISH.

2) That some wild beast snatches them away from the flock. NO says Jesus, none shall pluck them from My hand.

Guaranteed eternal security, if you think you can trust Jesus.

See also 1 Cor 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.12). Thank you LORD.

AMEN and I agree......Jesus will complete and finish that good work that HE BEGAN in US.....and OUR lives are HID WITHIN CHRIST.....blows my mind how many reject this and trust into self over JESUS and HIW word/work.....!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Your missing the point because you cannot see past your own philosophy bro........and again you cannot accept the truth bro because it contradicts your view and shoots holes in your theology. Paul told the church to cut one lose for the destruction of the flesh so the spirit may be saved...it is quite simple and the context blares loudly.....not going to argue with you...if you want to keep trusting yourself go ahead....I will trust Jesus to finish what he started and the fact that I am saved to the uttermost and my life is hid within Christ......The work Jesus completed is sufficient to save me and keep me saved even if and when I sin......unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.....I have the righteousness of GOD without the LAW applied unto me by belief...Jesus took ALL of my sins upon him on the cross...if you feel you need to keep re-crucifying Jesus over and over again then have a ball.......

And to add...NO where does it indicate the rich man was ever saved...and exactly the opposite is revealed as he never believed the word to begin with...but this too you are oblivious to...

First and once again I trust in the Holy Spirits guidance, and not in my self so you again make another false accusation.

Second you do not poke holes in what I say because it is biblically sound and I gave scriptures to back it up, and you on the other hand gave a book from the OT in Job that has absolutely nothing to do with the context of what Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 5.

Third the context of chapter 5 has nothing to do with physical death, as the whole chapter is devoted to the casting out of the church those who continue to willfully sin and refuse to give them up. An unrepented sinner can not get eternal life after they have died, else you would have every single person in the world ever saved.

Last of all I nowhere said the rich man was saved, what I said is this was given to us as an example that we are to obey now because after one dies salvation is no longer an option. You again claim a lie I never said, and try to twist it around to me being in the wrong. However if a person chooses not to obey the gospel before they die, there is no eternal life in that person.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

First and once again I trust in the Holy Spirits guidance, and not in my self so you again make another false accusation.

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

you will not find me doing evil,

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

You bare false witness Kenny....... REPENT!

The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and love Kenny not the spirit of deception,division and error. Repent!

 

[valiant]

Here is the issue though as the willful sinner the bible is referring to is not how we willfully sin, but is a person who continues to deliberately keep sinning everyday without repenting/confessing of those sins. The writer of Hebrews includes themselves in this passage saying, "if we," and not just if you.
He is giving a strict warning that once you are in Christ you can not continue to live in willful sins (walk in the flesh) and receive eternal life both. His sacrifice means nothing to those who trample His blood underfoot by continuing to walk enmity to God. Which is why it goes on to say those who do this will face judgment and a fiery indignation that will devour the enemies of God, as in tossed into the lake of fire and destroyed.

Not in that verse he isn't. He is saying that it is no good looking back to Jewish sacrifices, it is now Christ or judgment. This was true for him and for all Jews. You read an awful lot into 'sin wilfully'. No sacrifice for sin was EVER available for a man who lived continually in sin. Thus it cannot mean that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

This is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of ALL Whom He has given me I should lose NOTHING but should raise him up at the last day (John 6.39). The question is, is He capable of doing what He has said? If He is then He will lose nothing.

And He will seek it until He finds it. (Luke 15.4).

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow me and I give to them eternal life, and they will NEVER perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. (John 10.27-28)

There were two dangers for a sheep. 1) that it should wilfully wander off and be lost. NO says Jesus they will NEVER PERISH.

2) That some wild beast snatches them away from the flock. NO says Jesus, none shall pluck them from My hand.

Guaranteed eternal security, if you think you can trust Jesus.

See also 1 Cor 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.12). Thank you LORD.

Good verses but I think as always there are key words that are being overlooked.

John 6:39-40
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Should and may are words that makes the eternal life situational based on a true belief in Him, and Jesus tells us what it means to believe in Him back in Luke 6;

Luke 6:47
Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them

Our Lord Jesus says those who come to Him, and do what He told them to do is true believers in Him. In this same passage in verses 48-49 He says a hearer only does not have a faith rooted in Him. And James confirms this in James 1:22 where he says a hearer only and not a doer is deceived.

Your verse from John 10:27-28 confirm this as well as it says in that passage, "follows Him."
Following the Lord means obeying His teachings as He commanded in the great commission of Matthew 28:19-20.

If you believe Jesus never taught a believer can not wander off from the faith then and not end up with salvation then you have overlooked the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15:1-7 where Jesus says only if they come back in repentance do they have salvation. As the context is if one wanders off we are called to go and bring them back by having them repent of their ways that cost them to get lost.

You can not have the Lord Jesus teachings contradict what the Apostle Paul said or vise versa, as they only confirm what each other said. Nobody snatches us away form the Lord, as that person who walks away does it by their own free will and giving into their own lusts again or trusting into a false teaching.....

 

[SarahM777]

This is the will of Him Who sent Me, that of ALL Whom He has given me I should lose NOTHING but should raise him up at the last day (John 6.39). The question is, is He capable of doing what He has said? If He is then He will lose nothing.

And He will seek it until He finds it. (Luke 15.4).

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow me and I give to them eternal life, and they will NEVER perish, and none shall pluck them from My hand. (John 10.27-28)

There were two dangers for a sheep. 1) that it should wilfully wander off and be lost. NO says Jesus they will NEVER PERISH.

2) That some wild beast snatches them away from the flock. NO says Jesus, none shall pluck them from My hand.

Guaranteed eternal security, if you think you can trust Jesus.

See also 1 Cor 1.8-9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.12). Thank you LORD.

Pulling verses out of context means nothing,other then the fact that you can make scripture say whatever it to say. It proves nothing other then the fact that you can do the same thing as what most false prophets can do and will do. (Not to say that are) We are to search the ENTIRE scriptures for the matter and also deal with those verses that would seem on the surface the position. Both are true and both MUST be reconciled to each other to know the truth.

John 6 says this


[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

While it's 100% true that that verse and context says that Jesus will not lose one. Is there any place in that passage that Jesus makes the claim that one can not willing walk away? Jesus at that did not deal with it so that passage CAN NOT be used as a PROOF text for OSAS.

And again you pulled isolated verses out of context and out of the whole council of scripture. You can't build doctrines that way and end up with correct doctrine.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Not in that verse he isn't. He is saying that it is no good looking back to Jewish sacrifices, it is now Christ or judgment. This was true for him and for all Jews. You read an awful lot into 'sin wilfully'. No sacrifice for sin was EVER available for a man who lived continually in sin. Thus it cannot mean that.

No I don't read to much into it as I read exactly what it says, as the Jews when they sacrificed animals they did it constantly for sins they continued to do. The Lord became our one time perfect sacrifice to cover all sins when we repent/confess them to Him.
The warning comes as if you continue reading says they will face judgment and the lake of fire that destroys the enemies of God. This passage goes hand and hand with what Apostle Paul said in Romans, where he says choose who to serve. Rather it be sins that lead to spiritual death, or righteousness unto eternal life.

Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul both say we can not serve both sins (flesh) and the Lord our God both......
You can not be carnally minded and have eternal life both !!!

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Hebrew 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

He saves completely not incompletely.......deal with it!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Originally Posted by kennethcadwell

you will not find me doing evil,





The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth and love Kenny not the spirit of deception,division and error. Repent!

And you know full well I already explained this to you and what I was stating there, yet you continue to cherry pick parts out of what I said and make a whole false context out of it.

Take my explanation that I gave to show what I was actually saying instead of using part. Doing this with what I said shows that you do the same with scripture. Plus you do know the bible says not to hold something over another ???

 

[dcontroversal]

Hebrew 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

He saves completely not incompletely.......deal with it!

HAAHHAHAH so true for sure.......their definition of eternal is temporary and I guess their god is weak....he can save them when they are at their worst but not keep them saved....what a joke.....

 

[SarahM777]

Hebrew 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

He saves completely not incompletely.......deal with it!

Singles verses pulled out of context,and not dealing with the whole council of scripture prove NOTHING.

 

[dcontroversal]

And you know full well I already explained this to you and what I was stating there, yet you continue to cherry pick parts out of what I said and make a whole false context out of it.

Take my explanation that I gave to show what I was actually saying instead of using part. Doing this with what I said shows that you do the same with scripture. Plus you do know the bible says not to hold something over another ???

Your favorite fruit.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Singles verses pulled out of context,and not dealing with the whole council of scripture prove NOTHING.

No doubt as well as denied verb tenses, contest, words and phrases in context like ETERNAL, EVERLASTING, WHAT GOD DOES, SEALED unto the day of redemption, saved to the uttermost etc.

 

[valiant]

Pulling verses out of context means nothing,other then the fact that you can make scripture say whatever it to say. It proves nothing other then the fact that you can do the same thing as what most false prophets can do and will do. (Not to say that are) We are to search the ENTIRE scriptures for the matter and also deal with those verses that would seem on the surface the position. Both are true and both MUST be reconciled to each other to know the truth.

John 6 says this


[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. [SUP]36 [/SUP]But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. [SUP]37 [/SUP]All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. [SUP]38 [/SUP]For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. [SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. [SUP]40 [/SUP]For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

While it's 100% true that that verse and context says that Jesus will not lose one. Is there any place in that passage that Jesus makes the claim that one can not willing walk away? Jesus at that did not deal with it so that passage CAN NOT be used as a PROOF text for OSAS.

Yes there is. If Jesus says that of all whom the Father has given Him He will lose NOTHING, that covers those who will try to walk away. The lost sheep in Luke 15 'tried to walk away' But the Saviour sought it until He found it.

You think you have to save yourself with a bit of help from Jesus. I am trusting Him to save me with no help from Me. Mine is the Gospel.

If you won't believe that He is capable enough to do His job, that is up to you.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Hebrew 7:25
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

He saves completely not incompletely.......deal with it!

Exactly those who draw near to God through Him, meaning those who are obedient in the faith to Him.
Once again this does not apply to those who walk away from the faith to go back to a willful life of unbelief. You can not cancel out the multiple scriptures from Paul and others that show we have to continue in the faith;


1 Peter 1:9


Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.




James 1:12


Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him.




Matthew 24:10-13


And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.




Matthew 10:22


And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.




2 Peter 2:20-22


For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”




Hebrews 12:1-3


Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted.




Hebrews 10:36


For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised.




Hebrews 6:4-6


For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.




Hebrews 3:12-14


Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.




2 Timothy 4:2-8


Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come.




1 Timothy 4:16


Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.




1 Corinthians 9:24-25


Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable.




Romans 11:19-22


Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.




Mark 13:9-13


“But be on your guard. For they will deliver you over to councils, and you will be beaten in synagogues, and you will stand before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them. And the gospel must first be proclaimed to all nations. And when they bring you to trial and deliver you over, do not be anxious beforehand what you are to say, but say whatever is given you in that hour, for it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. And brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death. And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.






Colossians 1:22-23


In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes there is. If Jesus says that of all whom the Father has given Him He will lose NOTHING, that covers those who will try to walk away. The lost sheep in Luke 15 'tried to walk away' But the Saviour sought it until He found it.

You think you have to save yourself with a bit of help from Jesus. I am trusting Him to save me with no help from Me. Mine is the Gospel.

If you won't believe that He is capable enough to do His job, that is up to you.

Another good truth found here........they will deny it though.....you have to lose all pride to come before Jesus and accept your total helplessness before his throne....while relying totally on Jesus and his work/faith/blood for total salvation.....

 

[kennethcadwell]

Yes there is. If Jesus says that of all whom the Father has given Him He will lose NOTHING, that covers those who will try to walk away. The lost sheep in Luke 15 'tried to walk away' But the Saviour sought it until He found it.

You think you have to save yourself with a bit of help from Jesus. I am trusting Him to save me with no help from Me. Mine is the Gospel.

If you won't believe that He is capable enough to do His job, that is up to you.

Changing what the scripture says now, as it says should not will in it, which is a situational word. And the following verse says may have eternal life, meaning it is not set in stone as definitely having it now. All signs in scripture point to it as an assurance of having it based on continuing in the faith.