Hebrews 6:1-6

[valiant]

Gal 5:4 "ye are fallen from grace"

A past tense statement of fact, not a potential event or condition here.

They fell from the doctrine of grace as many new Christians do once they have been converted. They begin to convince themselves that they must be good enough to keep it up, rather than trusting in the grace of God.

But the Galatians did not fall out of grace. They were still under the grace of God and still Christians. They fell INTO grace. They just needed Paul to put their doctrines right.

 

[valiant]

1 Cor 6:9 says the unrighteous SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. This verse is a statement of fact, not a straw man.

Your difficulty is trying to find away to get one to be righteous without having to do any righteous works.

Fortunately God found a way. Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

I put my trust in Jesus Christ as my Saviour and was freely accounted as righteous through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus. (Rom 3.24)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

1 Cor 6:9 says the unrighteous SHALL NOT inherit the kingdom of God. This verse is a statement of fact, not a straw man.

Your difficulty is trying to find away to get one to be righteous without having to do any righteous works.

James 2:25 "Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"



Rahab was an unrighteous person, a harlot, that was justified. So here we have a case of God justifying the unrighteous but did God justify Rahab while she did nothing/faith only? No, here the unrighteous was justified by her works.

here is your problem.

1. FOr all have sinned and fall short of the glory (perfection) of God.
2. If we break even the least of the law. we are guilty as if we broke the whole law.

There are no righteous people on earth. No one will get to heaven because THEY were righteous people. for that demands the perfect adherance to the law (Gods demand) this we are all sinners.

Only those who have been GIVEN the righteousness of CHrist will get in.

Your not righteous sea bass, stop puffing yourself up. the law condemns yuo were you stand, until you realize this, you will never find grace.

 

[SarahM777]

When a husband and wife after 20 years of marriage,the husband no longer loves the wife and chooses to leave,does that mean the love that the husband had at the beginning was NEVER real? Did the husband have a fake love for his wife the whole they were married? Or did the husband have a REAL LOVE that grew cold and DIED?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When a husband and wife after 20 years of marriage,the husband no longer loves the wife and chooses to leave,does that mean the love that the husband had at the beginning was NEVER real? Did the husband have a fake love for his wife the whole they were married? Or did the husband have a REAL LOVE that grew cold and DIED?

the husband trusted someone who let him down. He did not love her the way a man is told to love a person (agape love) he may have had a lust or a brotherly love (phileo) but he never had a true love.

Again, stop thinking as a human and start thinking like God. If he had agape love for her, nothing she could have done could change that love, because love does not seek to gain for self. and will never be disappointed, or die. that love is real. and stands forever.

 

[valiant]

When a husband and wife after 20 years of marriage,the husband no longer loves the wife and chooses to leave,does that mean the love that the husband had at the beginning was NEVER real? Did the husband have a fake love for his wife the whole they were married? Or did the husband have a REAL LOVE that grew cold and DIED?

but there is a great difference between that love and the love of God. The wife had no way of persuading the husband to love her again, but fortunately God is an expert at it. He 'works in us to will and do of His good pleasure' (Phil 2.13). He brings home to us His love. 'We love because He first loved us.'

true love 'never fails'.

 

[SarahM777]

the husband trusted someone who let him down. He did not love her the way a man is told to love a person (agape love) he may have had a lust or a brotherly love (phileo) but he never had a true love.

Again, stop thinking as a human and start thinking like God. If he had agape love for her, nothing she could have done could change that love, because love does not seek to gain for self. and will never be disappointed, or die. that love is real. and stands forever.

So the husband can show agape love to his for the first 15 years of the marriage,they start going through a really,really bad time in their marriage for what ever reason,and for what reason they can't seem to get through it,and then Satan throws in his curve ball,he sends a woman that understands him at this time,it's perfectly innocent at first,but slowly over time they find they have MORE in common then he has WITH HIS WIFE and slowly but surely they are started to be attracted to each other and one lonely night they end up in bed. Then because they did his love for his lover becomes GREATER then his love his wife. His love for his wife WAS UNDERMINED by what he did. It never happens that way?

Or is that the husband started seeing someone at work who he thought was better then what HE HAD? Could he have BEEN PULLED AWAY INTO LUST? The husband is NEVER pulled away from the wife for his love for his job? The husband is NEVER pulled away because his wife has needs that he finds are hard for him deal with? It never occurs to you that the husband could have ALLOWED things to get IN BETWEEN him and the love he had for his wife? That NEVER happens? It ONLY happens because the husbands love was NEVER REAL IN the first? Really?

The problem is NOT GOD. The problem is NEVER GOD. The problem is and will be is FICKLE human beings. Human beings WILL ALLOW things to get in BETWEEN THEM and their love for Lord.

 

[SarahM777]

but there is a great difference between that love and the love of God. The wife had no way of persuading the husband to love her again, but fortunately God is an expert at it. He 'works in us to will and do of His good pleasure' (Phil 2.13). He brings home to us His love. 'We love because He first loved us.'

true love 'never fails'.

That is true to a POINT. There are those who will reject Him AGAIN.

 

[valiant]

James 2:25 "Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?"

Rahab was an unrighteous person, a harlot, that was justified. So here we have a case of God justifying the unrighteous but did God justify Rahab while she did nothing/faith only? No, here the unrighteous was justified by her works.

Do you understand what James is saying? What he is saying is that we become accepted as righteous by God when we believe (2.23), but that true faith will RESULT in practical righteousness which convinces men that we are justified. For when we believe and are saved we are 'created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them'.(Eph 2.10). As a consequence we are seen to some extent to be righteous, and are justified before men as believers ('I by my works will show you my faith') but of course not as wholly righteous (2.10). We never cease to need the effectiveness of Christ's righteousness which is the only righteousness which makes us acceptable before God..

Why did Rahab receive the messengers and send them out another way? Because she had believed God and it was counted to her for righteousness. She was seen as righteous before God (as you say). God needs no other evidence. But she was seen to be righteous by men when she saved the messengers. So we must distinguish being righteous in the sight of God from being righteous in the eyes of men.,,

 

[SarahM777]

The unrighteous will be saved while they continue in their unrighteousness?

Yes that is true BUT how do you deal with those unknown sins that we all do that we have not been confronted with or convicted of? How does one repent of them if one does NOT KNOW they are doing them?

 

[valiant]

That is true to a POINT. There are those who will reject Him AGAIN.

and He will seek them again until He finds them unless you don't think that He can be relied on to keep His promises

 

[SarahM777]

and He will seek them again until He finds them unless you don't think that He can be relied on to keep His promises

If the sheep REFUSES to heed the shepherds voice and stop,the sheep CAN still keep running and running till it falls off the cliff,gets eaten by wolf or turned into lamb chops,if the sheep DOES NOT STOP and turns around.

 

[valiant]

If the sheep REFUSES to heed the shepherds voice and stop,the sheep CAN still keep running and running till it falls off the cliff,gets eaten by wolf or turned into lamb chops,if the sheep DOES NOT STOP and turns around.

that is not what Jesus said. Nor is it true of a sheep. You are just finding excuses for your false view.

they will not perish and none shall pluck them from My hand. How then can the sheep perish?

 

[oldhermit]

I asked you if we can fall away from grace, How can that be if we are saved by grace, we could lose grace?

I know what gal 5 says, But what is the context. Losing salvation. Or as the children of Israel did, Fall from Gods salvation, because they never believed it. even though they experienced it by being with moses?

Again, What does Gal. 5:4 say???

 

[SarahM777]

that is not what Jesus said. Nor is it true of a sheep. You are just finding excuses for your false view.

they will not perish and none shall pluck them from My hand. How then can the sheep perish?

More than 50 sheep commit mass suicide by jumping off cliff in Turkey


Maybe they knew what was coming.
More than 50 sheep on their way to slaughter in Turkey beat their executioners to the punch and jumped to their deaths in an unexplained and unprovoked mass suicide.

Herder Mejmet Gana saw his animals, and his money, vanish into thin air when one sheep suddenly leapt off a cliff, only to be followed by the rest of the flock.

A total of 52 carcasses were recovered at the bottom of the mountain range the herd was travelling on, Russian TV station RT reported.



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...suicide-jumping-cliff-turkey-article-1.455912


Oh yes they do go off the cliff,if they do NOT HEED THE SHEPHERDS VOICE.

 

[SarahM777]

that is not what Jesus said. Nor is it true of a sheep. You are just finding excuses for your false view.

they will not perish and none shall pluck them from My hand. How then can the sheep perish?

Jesus did say this

Matthew 7

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.[SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Those wolves are sent by Satan to pick off the sheep that are unwary. A sheep that does not test the fruits of those false prophets WILL GET EATEN by those wolves.

 

[valiant]

More than 50 sheep commit mass suicide by jumping off cliff in Turkey


Maybe they knew what was coming.
More than 50 sheep on their way to slaughter in Turkey beat their executioners to the punch and jumped to their deaths in an unexplained and unprovoked mass suicide.

Herder Mejmet Gana saw his animals, and his money, vanish into thin air when one sheep suddenly leapt off a cliff, only to be followed by the rest of the flock.

A total of 52 carcasses were recovered at the bottom of the mountain range the herd was travelling on, Russian TV station RT reported.



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...suicide-jumping-cliff-turkey-article-1.455912


Oh yes they do go off the cliff,if they do NOT HEED THE SHEPHERDS VOICE.

were they Jesus' sheep to whom He had made His promises?

 

[valiant]

Jesus did say this

Matthew 7

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.[SUP]16 [/SUP]By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

Those wolves are sent by Satan to pick off the sheep that are unwary. A sheep that does not test the fruits of those false prophets WILL GET EATEN by those wolves.

yes because it is not one of Jesus' sheep. NONE SHALL PLUCK THEM FROM MY HAND

in fact you have fallen from grace. For you are clearly not relying on the grace of Good to save you (Eph 2.8). But that does not mean you are not a Christian. you just need putting right lol

 

[SarahM777]

yes because it is not one of Jesus' sheep. NONE SHALL PLUCK THEM FROM MY HAND

in fact you have fallen from grace. For you are clearly not relying on the grace of Good to save you (Eph 2.8). But that does not mean you are not a Christian. you just need putting right lol

The point is they WEREN'T PLUCKED OUT of His hands,they WALKED AWAY FROM HIM. That is one huge difference. One that walks is a MATTER OF THE HEART.

 

[DesiredHaven]

This is an interesting passage

Psalm 25:5 As for such as turn aside unto their crooked ways, the LORD shall lead them forth with the workers of iniquity: but peace shall be upon Israel.

In the turning aside (unto their crooked ways here) the LORD himself shall lead them forth with those.

So it shows that He leading them forth with the workers of iniquity (not righteousness).

Even as Jesus said every branch in him that does not bear fruit He (the LORD) takes away as well

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit (( HE )) taketh away:

Whereas in the Psalms it shows how he does this,

... the LORD shall lead them forth with (these) the workers of iniquity

Just as here of those who do not abide in him he says,

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered;
and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Because if they are not bearing fruit (by abiding) and he (not any man) taketh them away (in reality) and because they would be bearing thorns (not fruit) by a true abiding.

So it makes sense they (in turning to their crooked ways) would be led forth (even as by the LORD) with the use of these men (even workers of iniquity) and cast forth branches be gathered by such men to be burned, just as it says here.

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing;
whose end is to be burned.