Plato, Aristotle, St. Augustine and St. Thomas: Masters of Theology

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Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#261
Mar 11, 2014
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#261
Elin said:
Agreed. . .and the alleged differences which you present alter the meaning of none of that.

Please present an example of an alleged addition altering the meaning of the truth of Scripture as to lead astray or into heresy to support your assertion.
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I'm not sure what you're agreeing to... everything I said? is the bible pretty much just a collection of core teachings to you?

do you agree that there are subtleties in the scriptures? nuances? a small change can easily make a difference in the subtleties and nuances...

(why do you say 'alleged' differences? pick up virtually any modern translation, and there'll be a footnote at the end of Mark.)
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#262
Mar 11, 2014
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#262
Elin said:
The text does not state "all" believers, so I don't see it to mean such, but to mean those signs would appear only among those who believe, which the history of the church bears out.
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yes, we interpret the passage differently...

now, the things attributed to Jesus in the longer ending of Mark, I think they matter (or would)...
 
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Elin

Banned
#263
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#263
Dan_473 said:
yes, we interpret the passage differently...

now, the things attributed to Jesus in the longer ending of Mark, I think they matter (or would)...
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Previously addressed. . .
 
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Elin

Banned
#264
Jan 19, 2013
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#264
Dan_473 said:
well, the divine truth of the nt would be its collective teachings... imo...
could the differences lead you astray? I don't know...
do you see yourself as dependent on the scriptures only, or also
on the ability of the spirit to guide you and Jesus to shepherd you?
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The Spirit guides and Jesus shepherds in accordance with the word of God.

The Scriptures are the objective plumb line by which all subjectively-received Christian truth must be measured for veracity.
 
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Elin

Banned
#265
Jan 19, 2013
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#265
Dan_473 said:
ahh, but now we have a stricter meaning for 'material'... it must lead astray or into heresy...
I was using 'material' as a synonym for 'important' which is in line with standard usage...
now, could an additional teaching be serious or important without leading to heresy? yes, a person could waste lots of time/energy on teachings not from God... imo...
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Previously addressed. . .

"Material" is altering the meaning of or the substance of.
 
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Elin

Banned
#266
Jan 19, 2013
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#266
Dan_473 said:
you are correct that I can't prove it... I did say 'I think'...

now, imo, sticking with what can be materially shown, as I understand you here,
would leave one in a place to miss out on a lot...

'To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.'
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Unsupported. . .and hypotheticals previously addressed.
 
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Elin

Banned
#267
Jan 19, 2013
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#267
Dan_473 said:
I'm not sure what you're agreeing to... everything I said? is the bible pretty much just a collection of core teachings to you?
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The Bible is propositional divine truth.

do you agree that there are subtleties in the scriptures? nuances? a small change can easily make a difference in the subtleties and nuances...
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"Subleties" and "nuances" will be in agreement with the rest of Scripture.

(why do you say 'alleged' differences? pick up virtually any modern translation, and there'll be a footnote at the end of Mark.)
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Footnote stating they do not appear in some earlier manuscripts. . .earlier is no proof of anything.
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#268
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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#268
Elin said:
The text does not state "all" believers, so I don't see it to mean such, but to mean those signs would appear only among those who believe, which the history of the church bears out.
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say, I just got to thinking... does anyone in acts do the drinking deadly poison part? I can't think of any examples...
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#269
Mar 11, 2014
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#269
Elin said:
Previously addressed. . .
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yes, and you addressed them, I think, by saying, in so many words, that they didn't matter, were immaterial...

so, is the bible a collection of core teachings, a set of orthodox beliefs... nothing less, and nothing more...?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#270
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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#270
Elin said:
The Spirit guides and Jesus shepherds in accordance with the word of God.

The Scriptures are the objective plumb line by which all subjectively-received Christian truth must be measured for veracity.
Click to expand...
does the guiding and measuring relate only to the central teachings of the bible, or all of it?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#271
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
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#271
Elin said:
Previously addressed. . .

"Material" is altering the meaning of or the substance of.
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just altering the meaning of, or changing it in such a way as to lead astray?
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#272
Mar 11, 2014
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#272
Elin said:
Unsupported. . .and hypotheticals previously addressed.
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yes, it is unsupported, and not something that can be shone in a bright light...

hence the 'dark sayings' above...
I like how the NASB puts it,
To understand a proverb and a figure,
The words of the wise and their riddles.

if a person is content with dealing only with what is obvious, and seeing the bible as a closed system, where everything in it is decipherable using only other things in it,
then yes, they don't need to look at anything about the greek philosophers,
and it doesn't matter which version of the bible they use, any in common use will do...

if a person seeks for wisdom, and is willing to deal with subtleties, then it becomes a different story...
 
Dan_473

Dan_473

Senior Member
#273
Mar 11, 2014
9,054
1,051
113
#273
Elin said:
The Bible is propositional divine truth.


"Subleties" and "nuances" will be in agreement with the rest of Scripture.


Footnote stating they do not appear in some earlier manuscripts. . .earlier is no proof of anything.
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not sure what you mean by propositional divine truth... is it different from the core teachings? does it include all teachings? is every word in the bible part of the propositional divine truth?

do the subtleties and nuances make any difference? is the propositional divine truth affected by them?

if something is in some manuscripts and not others, that's a difference... I'm not seeing why say 'alleged'...
 
E

Elin

Banned
#274
Jan 19, 2013
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#274
Dan_473 said:
say, I just got to thinking... does anyone in acts do the drinking deadly poison part? I can't think of any examples...
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Moot. . .

Since it wouldn't kill them, how would they know what they drank was poison?
 
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Elin

Banned
#275
Jan 19, 2013
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#275
Dan_473 said:
yes, and you addressed them, I think, by saying, in so many words, that they didn't matter, were immaterial...

so, is the bible a collection of core teachings, a set of orthodox beliefs... nothing less, and nothing more...?
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The Bible agrees with itself in the light of itself.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#276
Jan 19, 2013
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#276
Dan_473 said:
does the guiding and measuring relate only to the central teachings of the bible, or all of it?
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All the Bible agrees with itself in light of itself.
 
E

Elin

Banned
#278
Jan 19, 2013
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#278
Dan_473 said:
yes, it is unsupported, and not something that can be shone in a bright light...

hence the 'dark sayings' above...
I like how the NASB puts it,
To understand a proverb and a figure,
The words of the wise and their riddles.

if a person is content with dealing only with what is obvious, and seeing the bible as a closed system, where everything in it is decipherable using only other things in it,
then yes, they don't need to look at anything about the greek philosophers,
and it doesn't matter which version of the bible they use, any in common use will do...

if a person seeks for wisdom, and is willing to deal with subtleties, then it becomes a different story...
Click to expand...
Wisdom is knowing God. . .
 
E

Elin

Banned
#279
Jan 19, 2013
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#279
Dan_473 said:
not sure what you mean by propositional divine truth...
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Got a dictionary?

Is it different from the core teachings? does it include all teachings? is every word in the bible part of the propositional divine truth?

do the subtleties and nuances make any difference? is the propositional divine truth affected by them?
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One and the same. . .

if something is in some manuscripts and not others, that's a difference... I'm not seeing why say 'alleged'...
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Alleged "additions". . .may have been omissions. . .
 
J

Jeff_56

Banned
#280
Dec 26, 2014
3,757
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0
#280
the greek way of thinking and living is a complete abomination to yahweh. likewise its philosophers and philosophies, and the other nations opposed to yahweh also.... --- there is no good to come from them - they are as bad as demonic doctrines, and may be the same source....

yahweh has said so clearly, no doubt nor shadow.
 
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