Version Difference Question

[posthuman]

All of Amos 9 is about the first coming of Christ and Israel being banished from the land permanently. This is not some future event where Israel comes back into the land that God never gave them in the first place... The promises were made to Abraham and his SEED Christ... not national Israel.

i think you may be absolutely right about this being about the advent of Christ (remembering that He will come again!), but even so, it is not about permanently rejecting His people -

For, lo, I will command,
and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations,
like as corn is sifted in a sieve,
yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
(Amos 9:9)​

it is about sifting her and removing the dross from the silver:

saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,
saith the Lord.
(Amos 9:8)​

not about utterly destroying her.
we as the adoption are not "replacing" the Lord's people, but grafted in. it is not as though, as a people in Him, we are more faithful, or have anything to boast over them in - the only thing we have to boast of is His mercy toward us.

"replacement theology" always reminds me of the prodigal son - we ought to remember that the Father chastised the faithful son for not rejoicing with Him over the return of the one who went astray, and that the Father Himself watched for him longingly, never disowning him in his heart.

i look and pray for their restoration!

For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or household gods. Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the Lord and to his blessings in the last days.
(Hosea 3:4-5)

Zechariah 12​

 

[KJV1611]

one who doesn't fall asleep at his post!

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour
(1 Peter 5:8) ​

Right, that's what vigilant means, but what does viligant mean.

 

[KJV1611]

.. except for the part about them being planted in the land He has given them, and never uprooted.. ? (verse 15)

i'm sorry i said you seem to "hate context" -- that was harsh and out of line. it's just that there is a definite change of tone in verses 11-15 of Amos 9 (i.e. the immediate context of verse 14), and it speaking instead of coming exile about restoration. it is the same in other prophesy about captivity - for example Jeremiah 30 exists, after many chapters foretelling captivity. in Jeremiah 25 (and other places) it's specifically spelled out that the captivity will only be for a season. just one of many examples in that book -

‘They will be taken to Babylon and there they will remain until the day I come for them,’
declares the Lord.
‘Then I will bring them back and restore them to this place.’
(Jeremiah 27:22)
​

so it's not "out of thin air" that a person reading Amos sees that the Lord's chastisement is not to abide forever on Israel.

I'm sorry posthuman but I believe you are under the Zionism delusion like most everyone else on this thread. That is not a slur or a put down of any of you.... I don't know what else to call it. You guys have bought, hook, line, and sinker the lie that national Israel inherits the promises God gave to Abraham. I don't know how me, Paul and God can make it any clearer... national Israel doesn't inherit anything. The children of the flesh are not children of God... they don't inherit anything!


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Any time you guys read Israel and land in the same chapter of the bible, you think it means national Israel moving back into her land that God never gave her to start with. The delusion of Zionism has almost an occult power over it's attendant's. People take simple easy to understand ideas and flip them upside down to support Zionism. For example, any unbiased person reading the verses below will with 100% certainty tell you that Israel is going back into captivity. The only people who can't understand this are the Zionist zombies.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

God just told us what land he has given to national Israel... he gave them the waste cities, he planted them there (in captivity) and they won't ever come out.

This is exactly what happens when people believe the other big lie... God's inerrant word doesn't exist. If each of you believed the bible was inerrant, then you would actually learn the truth of Amos 9 and not twist it into a blessing for national Israel. There is no restoration for national Israel people. Some of national Israel is going to be saved and become Christians just like we became Christians. They and us are the ones who inherit the land... and it's way more than that stink hole in the middle east.

Posthuman none of this was directed at you, it just came out this way as I was writing. Consider this a response to all Zionist.

 

[KJV1611]

i think you may be absolutely right about this being about the advent of Christ (remembering that He will come again!), but even so, it is not about permanently rejecting His people -

For, lo, I will command,
and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations,
like as corn is sifted in a sieve,
yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
(Amos 9:9)​

it is about sifting her and removing the dross from the silver:

saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob,
saith the Lord.
(Amos 9:8)​

not about utterly destroying her.
we as the adoption are not "replacing" the Lord's people, but grafted in. it is not as though, as a people in Him, we are more faithful, or have anything to boast over them in - the only thing we have to boast of is His mercy toward us.

"replacement theology" always reminds me of the prodigal son - we ought to remember that the Father chastised the faithful son for not rejoicing with Him over the return of the one who went astray, and that the Father Himself watched for him longingly, never disowning him in his heart.

i look and pray for their restoration!

For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or household gods. Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the Lord their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the Lord and to his blessings in the last days.
(Hosea 3:4-5)

Zechariah 12​

Yes, they were sifted and not the least grain was lost... Peter, Paul, James, Mary and all the others were the grain. The hard unsiftable parts were cast away... only Christians made it. They're still being sifted today, some Jews are getting saved.

There is no such thing as replacement theology. The seed has always been spiritual Israel (saved Jews and Gentiles), it has never been national Israel.

The restoration in Zech was talking about the first coming of Christ. That's when they looked upon him who they pierced and mourned.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

I'm sorry posthuman but I believe you are under the Zionism delusion like most everyone else on this thread. That is not a slur or a put down of any of you.... I don't know what else to call it. You guys have bought, hook, line, and sinker the lie that national Israel inherits the promises God gave to Abraham. I don't know how me, Paul and God can make it any clearer... national Israel doesn't inherit anything. The children of the flesh are not children of God... they don't inherit anything!


Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Any time you guys read Israel and land in the same chapter of the bible, you think it means national Israel moving back into her land that God never gave her to start with. The delusion of Zionism has almost an occult power over it's attendant's. People take simple easy to understand ideas and flip them upside down to support Zionism. For example, any unbiased person reading the verses below will with 100% certainty tell you that Israel is going back into captivity. The only people who can't understand this are the Zionist zombies.

Amo 9:14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.
Amo 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

God just told us what land he has given to national Israel... he gave them the waste cities, he planted them there (in captivity) and they won't ever come out.

This is exactly what happens when people believe the other big lie... God's inerrant word doesn't exist. If each of you believed the bible was inerrant, then you would actually learn the truth of Amos 9 and not twist it into a blessing for national Israel. There is no restoration for national Israel people. Some of national Israel is going to be saved and become Christians just like we became Christians. They and us are the ones who inherit the land... and it's way more than that stink hole in the middle east.

Posthuman none of this was directed at you, it just came out this way as I was writing. Consider this a response to all Zionist.

KJV1611,You are now making this a KJO and replacement theology debate.

Welcome to ignore.

 

[KJV1611]

KJV1611,You are now making this a KJO and replacement theology debate.

Welcome to ignore.

It's not about KJO nor replacement theology. It's about reading words for exactly what they say. The NIV translation is biased to Zionism, the KJV is not. Don't get angry with me, I did't write either book... I just know which one tells the story accurately and which doesn't.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

It's not about KJO nor replacement theology. It's about reading words for exactly what they say. The NIV translation is biased to Zionism, the KJV is not. Don't get angry with me, I did't write either book... I just know which one tells the story accurately and which doesn't.

I am not angry.

This is a replacement theology statement and you made it:

You guys have bought, hook, line, and sinker the lie that national Israel inherits the promises God gave to Abraham.

There are 8 Bible covenants, 5, including the Abrahamic and new Covenant were made to Israel, 3 were with man kind in general.

Gentiles are grafted under the New Covenant. We did not replace the Jews in any sense.

Gentile only receive the spiritual and not physical blessings of the Arbrahamic covenant, where Israel receives the physical blessings of the land detailed in the Abrahamic Covenant

Your beloved KJO version does not spell this out plainly and is why you make statements that you do not seem to think are repalcement theology or KJO based, but are.

You obviously are also sitting udner teaching and preaching of someone who doe s BELIEVE in replacement theology , otherwise you would not be vomiting it out and then back pedaling so hard. It is evident you have not studied to show yourself approved in this area.

Google 8 Bible covenants and learn truth and less fiction.

 

[KJV1611]

I am not angry.

This is a replacement theology statement and you made it:



There are 8 Bible covenants, 5, including the Abrahamic and new Covenant were made to Israel, 3 were with man kind in general.

Gentiles are grafted under the New Covenant. We did not replace the Jews in any sense.

Gentile only receive the spiritual and not physical blessings of the Arbrahamic covenant, where Israel receives the physical blessings of the land detailed in the Abrahamic Covenant

Your beloved KJO version does not spell this out plainly and is why you make statements that you do not seem to think are repalcement theology or KJO based, but are.

You obviously are also sitting udner teaching and preaching of someone who doe s BELIEVE in replacement theology , otherwise you would not be vomiting it out and then back pedaling so hard. It is evident you have not studied to show yourself approved in this area.

Google 8 Bible covenants and learn truth and less fiction.

8 bible covenants is not news to me. I know exactly where you're coming from and it's just not true. There are two covenants and you call them what you want, but they are grace and works. Salvation through grace didn't start with the New Testament. All peoples of all times are saved by grace, no one has ever been saved by the law. No one inherits any land except Christ and those that are in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

8 bible covenants is not news to me. I know exactly where you're coming from and it's just not true. There are two covenants and you call them what you want, but they are grace and works. Salvation through grace didn't start with the New Testament. All peoples of all times are saved by grace, no one has ever been saved by the law. No one inherits any land except Christ and those that are in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles.

There is no "salvation" covenant. There is a New Covenant. There is not a works covenant but a Mosiac Covenant.

Then 6 others:
Edenic
Adamic
Noahic
Abrahamic
Land
Davidic

Your KJB shows you all 8, crack it open and really study instead of being a parrot to doctrine.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

8 bible covenants is not news to me. I know exactly where you're coming from and it's just not true. There are two covenants and you call them what you want, but they are grace and works. Salvation through grace didn't start with the New Testament. All peoples of all times are saved by grace, no one has ever been saved by the law. No one inherits any land except Christ and those that are in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles.

We are done, you are destroyed for your lack of knowledge.

You state you are not about repalcement theoglogy but you parrot it. You state you are not about KJO but your name and replies betray it.

My heart hurts for guys like you, because you are in such deep error.

you want to swim in the deep waters, but only jump in puddles.

 

[KJV1611]

There is no "salvation" covenant. There is a New Covenant. There is not a works covenant but a Mosiac Covenant.

Then 6 others:
Edenic
Adamic
Noahic
Abrahamic
Land
Davidic

Your KJB shows you all 8, crack it open and really study instead of being a parrot to doctrine.

Adam and Eve - saved by grace. Adam and Eve inherits the same thing I do.
Noah - saved by grace. Noah inherits the same thing I do.
Abraham - saved by grace. Abraham inherits the same thing I do.
David - saved by grace. David inherits the same thing I do.

All of us are the meek in Christ... we all inherit the earth.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Adam and Eve - saved by grace. Adam and Eve inherits the same thing I do.
Noah - saved by grace. Noah inherits the same thing I do.
Abraham - saved by grace. Abraham inherits the same thing I do.
David - saved by grace. David inherits the same thing I do.

All of us are the meek in Christ... we all inherit the earth.

How could Noah or Adam be saved by the new Covenant, when they were not even under the law?

Abraham was not saved by Grace he was saved by his faith, which was imputed as righteousness to him.
Abraham was not under the law or the new covenant.

How could David be saved by grace and under the new Covenant if he was under the law?

You are grafted into the New Covenant, that was given to the Jews.

 

[KJV1611]

How could Noah or Adam be saved by the new Covenant, when they were not even under the law?

Abraham was not saved by Grace he was saved by his faith, which was imputed as righteousness to him.
Abraham was not under the law or the new covenant.

How could David be saved by grace and under the new Covenant if he was under the law?

You are grafted into the New Covenant, that was given to the Jews.

Read Hebrews 11.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

David wasn't under the law, he was a priest just like we are kings and priests (Rev_5:10). That's why he was blameless when he ate the shewbread... Shewbread could only be lawfully eaten by the priests and David was a priest through Christ. Read Matthew 12.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

We're graffed into the olive tree, not the New Covenant.

Here's a good one for you. Only the KJV got it right. Christ was in the church, not the assembly in the wilderness. The church is not new, it's hidden all over the Old Testament.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

 

[fredjames]

Amos 9:14King James Version (KJV)

14And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

Amos 9:14New International Version (NIV)

14and I will bring my people Israel back from exile.[a]

They will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyardsand drink their wine;
They will make gardens and eat their fruit.

Why does the KJV say that God will again bring about the captivity of Israel but the NIV says exactly the opposite? The NIV says that God will bring Israel back from exile.



They both mean the same, but the KJV, version 'illustrates' a little further by saying, 'again'. What GOD means is that, time and times again HE punishes them for their sins and yet 'once again', HE embraces them back.

Also please continue reading the same 'verse', because HE allow them to rebuild their ruins and their plain.

If GOD takes them once again to re-captivity, then why HE calls them to 'rebuild' their ruins and their plains?.

GOD bless you all in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

Read Hebrews 11.

Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

David wasn't under the law, he was a priest just like we are kings and priests (Rev_5:10). That's why he was blameless when he ate the shewbread... Shewbread could only be lawfully eaten by the priests and David was a priest through Christ. Read Matthew 12.

Mat 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
Mat 12:4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?

We're graffed into the olive tree, not the New Covenant.

Here's a good one for you. Only the KJV got it right. Christ was in the church, not the assembly in the wilderness. The church is not new, it's hidden all over the Old Testament.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

When you come to full age come back and we will talk.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When you come to full age come back and we will talk.

he does not even understand, the word "church" comes from the greek word which means an assembly.

 

[fredjames]

We're graffed into the olive tree, not the New Covenant.

Please 'slow down' because when you journey slightly ahead of CHRIST, you start to make 'mistakes' in your 'witnessing' of knowledge faith.

We are actually 'grafted' by GOD, not just onto an olive tree, but rather onto a 'cultivated olive tree'. 'Cultivated' in other words mean it has been planted and cared by someone until it became a tree.

That someone in simple, is GOD Himself and the olive tree HE cultivated is Israel, from Genesis onwards with and through one family, Adam, Seth, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, 12 tribes of Israel, Moses's Law and the Prophets and Israel as a nation with it's King and Priests and Scribes, based on the Old Covenant.

Then HE through JESUS of Nazareth and HIS disciples and based on the New Covenant, 'pruned' the 'branches' that were not fruitful and grafted the wild olive tree cut branches, 'who heard the calling through the Gospel', in their places.

And so my young friend and i do not want you to be in 'ignorance', that Christians, whether they like it or not, they are actually 'grafted' onto the New Covenant foundation cultivated olive tree. And they are 'consist of', from the Jewish Apostles and believers, as the first church in Jerusalem, which are the remaining branches on that 'tree', that were fruitful upon 'cultivation', until to the Gentile church, the 'wild', compassionately shown and rescued branches, that were 'grafted' on.