Reformed vs Charismatic
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Its God who makes things Right.. He truly Does. and He KNOWS how to reserve the Wicked, the bad guys, unto the Day of Judgment to be judged.. His Righteous Indignation upon the wicked, is apart of His Character, because He is Holy... His Mercy and Patience is so much greater than Ours.. Why is His patience so long , esepcially when dealing with the Wicked? because He sees their final result and its death, Gehenna Fire... Hades the temporary abode of the wicked is naked and open to Him.. He sees it. thus the reason for His longsuffering.. BUT He must judge sin and those in rebellion.. and He does.. God JUSTICE does include His indignation/Wrath upon the wicked, His Most Angry Moments, come when He Judges those who 'hold out His Truth in 'un righteousness'.. the wrath of God is Revealed from Heaven against these.. are these the drunks, the prostitutes, the theives? no these are those who are religious, holding out His Truth in un righteousness.. God's Justice is making that which is Crooked, Straight.. and in time those who made it crooked WILL UNLESS converted to Him. taste His Righteous Indignation.... God Himself is Glorified in Judgment! Judgment most times precedes His Work of Salvation.. or it goes Hand in Hand with it... His Character is Two sided.. not a one sided merciful loving God.. but 2 sides.. so many today pull Him down to their level.. Tell Him He can only act on one side of His Character... what Does God do in Heaven? David says He laughs at them. for He sees their day coming.. Indeed!
I see both have their strong points (Charismatic=freer worship style/ Reformed=consistency in teaching) but my caveat in the Strange Fire saga is that MacArthur who once praised the worship styles of the Calvary Chapels now belittles them. This also is an earmark of the Reformed Baptists who MacArthur and Phil Johnson is a part...their striving for puritanism lends towards a hyper criticalness...I know, I was there once.
Roger, You talk about things in theory, about justification etc. yet you appear to deny repentance is an actual action, a ceasing to do sin, a desire to do something good, and then putting it into action.
The apostles where continually saying things like "You cannot love God and hate your brother"
What is the christians response to the love of Jesus? Nothing, or is it up to God to transform the heart so you have no responsibility for the sin you do, because you are a slave and therefore it is up to God to make you different.
Please explain where you are in this practicle lesson of what a young christian should do once they have accepted Jesus and repented of their sin.
The apostles where continually saying things like "You cannot love God and hate your brother"
What is the christians response to the love of Jesus? Nothing, or is it up to God to transform the heart so you have no responsibility for the sin you do, because you are a slave and therefore it is up to God to make you different.
Please explain where you are in this practicle lesson of what a young christian should do once they have accepted Jesus and repented of their sin.
Dear reader. I met two men once in Japan. One taught english to Japanese and said it took 10 years of slow exposure for a Japanese person to become a christian and accept the realities.
The other preached among the sinners, the prostitutes and theives. He simply stated, they needed to repent and believe and stop sinning, clean up their act.
Now one spoke of reality, of sin and desire conquering the heart and leading people into death, which Jesus set them free from so they could learn to walk in life.
The other talked about culture and the impossibility of people seeing the finer points of Jesus.
I know who followed my Lord and the preaching of Peter, but do you?
The other preached among the sinners, the prostitutes and theives. He simply stated, they needed to repent and believe and stop sinning, clean up their act.
Now one spoke of reality, of sin and desire conquering the heart and leading people into death, which Jesus set them free from so they could learn to walk in life.
The other talked about culture and the impossibility of people seeing the finer points of Jesus.
I know who followed my Lord and the preaching of Peter, but do you?
In a Genuine conversion, True Salvation, not a false one, which you see so much of today because of the 'other sower' who is sowing his weeds, in Genuine Salvation, its the Goodness of God which leads somebody to repentance, the Revelation of that un merited Goodness in that sinners life which leads to that sinner breaking down and repenting of their past life and errors, His Un merited Goodness and its revelation which is what will make the sinner repent.. oh yes.. Im a living witness and testimony to that! that is the Work of God, because its the Holy Ghost who has drawn that Sinner to Jesus and shown him/her how good He has been for them, even though they did not deserve it.. Man likes to put repentance in almost a mathmatical or robotical formula or equation... thats man made.. a repentant heart is out of the revelation of God's Goodness in that persons life.. God and Only Him according to His Sovereign and Predetermined Will is behind that.. man, religion, cold hearted pharisees of today. have repentance in a man made formula or equation.. it cycles and leads to deeper and deeper condemnation.. thats not the Forgiveness God Grants.. and Its only God Himself who can grant you Forgiveness! indeed!
***Or Despisest thou the Riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; NOT knowing that the Goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Romans 2 indeed!
***Or Despisest thou the Riches of His goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; NOT knowing that the Goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? Romans 2 indeed!
Every Christian young or old ought to be in Gods word. Reading and studying and growing every day.
Do you want to believe that repentance is on a sin by sin basis? Biblical repentance in relation to salvation is far more than that. Biblical repentance wrought at salvation is a complete change resulting from the new birth and the new nature in Christ. The Holy Spirit brings a complete change and repentance is an evidence of that change.
As a do gooder you believe that you impress God. Jesus said that evil men know how to do good. Salvation is all about the new heart and the new life in Christ.
What you claim to be theory I see as everyday reality.
Sanctification is the life long journey with Christ where we are tried and tested for His glory.
We show our love for our enemies by sharing with them the gospel and showing them how to be saved and have eternal life.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Do you want to believe that repentance is on a sin by sin basis? Biblical repentance in relation to salvation is far more than that. Biblical repentance wrought at salvation is a complete change resulting from the new birth and the new nature in Christ. The Holy Spirit brings a complete change and repentance is an evidence of that change.
As a do gooder you believe that you impress God. Jesus said that evil men know how to do good. Salvation is all about the new heart and the new life in Christ.
What you claim to be theory I see as everyday reality.
Sanctification is the life long journey with Christ where we are tried and tested for His glory.
We show our love for our enemies by sharing with them the gospel and showing them how to be saved and have eternal life.
The fields are white unto harvest but the laborers are few.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Roger, in your faith Jesus brought nothing of value to you other than the theory of being born again.
You devalue this spiritual transformation so much you say we are still lost in sin, there is no victory of conquering problems, no matter how much we struggle. Our fate is merely to struggle like worms under judgement, no grace. You say I have a judgemental heart, when actually I am saying Jesus conquered sin for a purpose, that the Holy Spirit is given to give power, transformation, literally life. If in christians and the christian community there is no change where is Jesus's fulfillment, "they will know you are my deciples because of the love you have one for another."
Now I know how hard this is, I have 40 years of walking this road. "Love one another as I have loved you."
Now to many intimacy is an empty phrase. I suspect Roger is one, correct in theology quotes, but not in meaning.
I speak from a family racked with mental illness, denial of emotion, of love and life, of need, of admiting sin and ownership of ones own cause.
Read what Jesus had to say, and ask yourself, was this man expecting change or passive defeat?
My heart says Jesus knew me from the time I was in the womb to today, and still loved me, and sowed this love, to bring forth real fruit to eternity, acts of love, of sharing of reality.
Listen to the accusation "wild ethereal fantasies". Does Jesus love you? I mean really, really love you.
Did he do all to emblazon this love into eternity with the cross? Then why does this love mean so little to you.
It is possible to close your heart to this love, to eternity and the kingdom, but this is not what Jesus spoke to.
Few, very few, know these words or reality, and many have given up, and follow the form without the substance.
But what are you?
You devalue this spiritual transformation so much you say we are still lost in sin, there is no victory of conquering problems, no matter how much we struggle. Our fate is merely to struggle like worms under judgement, no grace. You say I have a judgemental heart, when actually I am saying Jesus conquered sin for a purpose, that the Holy Spirit is given to give power, transformation, literally life. If in christians and the christian community there is no change where is Jesus's fulfillment, "they will know you are my deciples because of the love you have one for another."
Now I know how hard this is, I have 40 years of walking this road. "Love one another as I have loved you."
Now to many intimacy is an empty phrase. I suspect Roger is one, correct in theology quotes, but not in meaning.
I speak from a family racked with mental illness, denial of emotion, of love and life, of need, of admiting sin and ownership of ones own cause.
Read what Jesus had to say, and ask yourself, was this man expecting change or passive defeat?
My heart says Jesus knew me from the time I was in the womb to today, and still loved me, and sowed this love, to bring forth real fruit to eternity, acts of love, of sharing of reality.
Listen to the accusation "wild ethereal fantasies". Does Jesus love you? I mean really, really love you.
Did he do all to emblazon this love into eternity with the cross? Then why does this love mean so little to you.
It is possible to close your heart to this love, to eternity and the kingdom, but this is not what Jesus spoke to.
Few, very few, know these words or reality, and many have given up, and follow the form without the substance.
But what are you?
Lol. A child lies in the street starving. My heart goes out to them, I pick them up and take them home.
There is no thought in my mind of what would God think, or this is a good idea. I love that child and want to help them.
Understand the parable of the good samaratine. He loved the man he found beaten up and left. That was the point.
Now to a man who does not have love in his heart, this is a do gooder, because he could never have empathy, reach out and understand need, and respond because his heart is moved.
But that is what literally God did for us. Not because it was a good thing to do, but because HE LOVED US.
Thankyou Roger from my heart. I did not know how strange love is to some who hold they follow Jesus.
Do you know what this means about you and your life? That this language is alien to you and you claim to follow the Lord of Love, who is called Love itself, yet do not see it in a fellow brother. That is judgement enough.
There is no thought in my mind of what would God think, or this is a good idea. I love that child and want to help them.
Understand the parable of the good samaratine. He loved the man he found beaten up and left. That was the point.
Now to a man who does not have love in his heart, this is a do gooder, because he could never have empathy, reach out and understand need, and respond because his heart is moved.
But that is what literally God did for us. Not because it was a good thing to do, but because HE LOVED US.
Thankyou Roger from my heart. I did not know how strange love is to some who hold they follow Jesus.
Do you know what this means about you and your life? That this language is alien to you and you claim to follow the Lord of Love, who is called Love itself, yet do not see it in a fellow brother. That is judgement enough.
E
Have you ceased sin? If you have you claim to be on equal ground with Christ, the only one who never sinned.
Repentance is not a religious word we can just throw around, It has a meaning, It means to change ones mind, to agree with someone else. it does not mean to cease from sin, that is impossible.
How do you get this from what he said? You think he is teaching otherwise? You should try to figure out what one believes before you make judgment.
Repentance is not a religious word we can just throw around, It has a meaning, It means to change ones mind, to agree with someone else. it does not mean to cease from sin, that is impossible.
How do you get this from what he said? You think he is teaching otherwise? You should try to figure out what one believes before you make judgment.