Hebrews 6:1-6

[eternally-gratefull]

Therein lies the problem. One side without the other IS INCOMPLETE. BOTH ARE TRUE. Faith and works are BOTH part of the picture. If one only has faith or works by themselves without the other that person CAN NOT BE saved. A faith only without works is DEAD. But works without faith are works for self righteousness and they can never remove sin. Works can only do one thing and one thing only and that is a it is TEST for us to see if one is in the faith or remaining in the faith.

True, but again, there is no such thing as faith alone. I do not know why people are adamant that there is such a thing. James makes it clear. a Man who CLAIMS to have faith, but has no works, has no faith at all.

And to continue to say works are part of the equation is wrong, and legalistic. You do not tell a person YOU HAVE TO DO WORKS. they are required. because that puts pressure on them to do something, or be judged, and does not allow them to grow.

If their faith is REAL they WILL be changed. thats the gospel.

Can you answer the question Do you love Jesus IF you do not do what He commands? Is the proof that we believe in our words alone or is the proof of the truth of that faith in our words and DEEDS? Or is talk cheap? Is it all talk and no walk?

When are you going to answer the question asked you about 100 times now how a person who truly loves someone would NEVER do a thing that person asks? Dont expect someone to answer your question when you never answer questions yourself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The gift of God is eternal life THROUGH Jesus Christ.

That means we may be partakers of eternal life on the condition we abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ. There is no condemnation for those whom DO that.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Sinning against God brings death. Abiding in Jesus Christ brings life.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We who abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ patiently continue in doing good. seeking glory, honour and immortality. This is why there is no rebellion in true salvation. This is why it is foolish to believe that one can engage in wickedness and remain "eternally secure."

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

It is not I who twist the Bible. It is not self righteous to contend for wholehearted obedience to God. Wholehearted obedience to God is the only means by which we may be made the righteousness of God in Him. We have to abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.

A manifest reality that few experience because they received not a love of the truth that they might be saved.

The gift of God is life.

Someone had to pay for that Gift. thus enters the cross and the work of Christ.

The gift is not only life. But god says it is eternal life.

If God paid the price to give us this gift. You mock him, by saying it must be earned by paying for it with our work. it thus becomes no gift. but a wage.

As paul said. Abraham was declared righteous because he trusted God (had faith) not because he worked for it. for if he was declared righteous by his works, he could boast. because he earned the wage.

Keep trying to work for a gift yuo could never earn. and you will never receive it.

 

[Elin]

The bible teaches one must be obedient before he can be saved. Having faith is obedience. So one must have an obedient faith before he can be saved, cannot be saved in faithlessness.

Now, if you could only get the NT to agree with you at Ro 4:5 where

"God justifies the wicked," not the righteous.

 

[Jeff_56]

..."God justifies the wicked," not the righteous.

yahweh's wisdom and timing and knowledge and plan and purpose in yahshua is perfect always.

since there is no wickedness in heaven, at all --- no liars, no roman catholics, no republicans, no one greedy, no lawyers, etc etc etc....

for them to be justified by yahweh , as it is written, to be true, then it must also be true that they become obedient after being or before being justified, one way or the other, to be in harmony with yahweh's WORD.

he will allow no sin in heaven, period.

 

[MarcR]

Therein lies the problem. One side without the other IS INCOMPLETE. BOTH ARE TRUE. Faith and works are BOTH part of the picture. If one only has faith or works by themselves without the other that person CAN NOT BE saved. A faith only without works is DEAD. But works without faith are works for self righteousness and they can never remove sin. Works can only do one thing and one thing only and that is a it is TEST for us to see if one is in the faith or remaining in the faith.

Can you answer the question Do you love Jesus IF you do not do what He commands? Is the proof that we believe in our words alone or is the proof of the truth of that faith in our words and DEEDS? Or is talk cheap? Is it all talk and no walk?

I agree that the intent of the tree of the knowledge of all things (Good and Evil) was an opportunity to demonstrate love by obedience.
I agree that love should still provoke us to obedience.

However:

Ro 8:6-9
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
KJV

teaches us that without the Holy Spirit's enabling; obedience, which is pleasing to God; is impossible.

 

[Elin]

Ro 4:5 - "God justifies the wicked," not the righteous.

yahweh's wisdom and timing and knowledge and plan and purpose in yahshua is perfect always.

since there is no wickedness in heaven, at all --- no liars, no roman catholics, no republicans, no one greedy, no lawyers, etc etc etc....

for them to be justified by yahweh , as it is written, to be true, then it must also be true that they become obedient after being or before being justified, one way or the other, to be in harmony with yahweh's WORD.

he will allow no sin in heaven, period.

"Justify" means to make righteous by God's declaration of "not guilty" by grace through faith.

 

[valiant]

yahweh's wisdom and timing and knowledge and plan and purpose in yahshua is perfect always.

since there is no wickedness in heaven, at all --- no liars, no roman catholics, no republicans, no one greedy, no lawyers, etc etc etc....

for them to be justified by yahweh , as it is written, to be true, then it must also be true that they become obedient after being or before being justified, one way or the other, to be in harmony with yahweh's WORD.

he will allow no sin in heaven, period.

So NO Roman Catholics (even those who are trusting Christ for salvation and do not venerate Mary), NO Republicans (does that include all who have ever voted Republican?), NO lawyers, will make it to Heaven?

Does God ever consult you about whom He is allowed to take to Heaven, oR do you just send Him A LIST OF NAMES?

 

[tourist]

yahweh's wisdom and timing and knowledge and plan and purpose in yahshua is perfect always.

since there is no wickedness in heaven, at all --- no liars, no roman catholics, no republicans, no one greedy, no lawyers, etc etc etc....

for them to be justified by yahweh , as it is written, to be true, then it must also be true that they become obedient after being or before being justified, one way or the other, to be in harmony with yahweh's WORD.

he will allow no sin in heaven, period.

So, according to your reasoning, there will be no one in heaven.

 

[kodiak]

yahweh's wisdom and timing and knowledge and plan and purpose in yahshua is perfect always.

since there is no wickedness in heaven, at all --- no liars, no roman catholics, no republicans, no one greedy, no lawyers, etc etc etc....

for them to be justified by yahweh , as it is written, to be true, then it must also be true that they become obedient after being or before being justified, one way or the other, to be in harmony with yahweh's WORD.

he will allow no sin in heaven, period.

Why no lawyers? Why no Republicans?
It sounds like you are saying all lawyers are wicked?

 

[JesusIsAll]

So NO Roman Catholics (even those who are trusting Christ for salvation and do not venerate Mary), NO Republicans (does that include all who have ever voted Republican?), NO lawyers, will make it to Heaven?

Does God ever consult you about whom He is allowed to take to Heaven, oR do you just send Him A LIST OF NAMES?

I'm also disappointed to see that. He was looking like a true prophet with the lawyers, but now I'm just perplexed as to what denomination holds to a doctrine of being alone in heaven.

 

[SarahM777]

[/COLOR]
When are you going to answer the question asked you about 100 times now how a person who truly loves someone would NEVER do a thing that person asks? Dont expect someone to answer your question when you never answer questions yourself.

Your argument is an argument based on FEELINGS not on whether the Father,Jesus or the Apostles plainly state that it CAN happen. Who am I to doubt their word for it? Feelings CAN NOT DICTATE DOCTRINE.

 

[konroh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=729f03_vjbs

Great short video on Hebrews 6.

 

[SarahM777]

When are you going to answer the question asked you about 100 times now how a person who truly loves someone would NEVER do a thing that person asks? Dont expect someone to answer your question when you never answer questions yourself.

And to take it further your question is on the SAME level as asking a question about WHY when Jesus said this

John 3

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [SUP]19 [/SUP]This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

Why do they love their evil deeds and will not come into the light,when that way ONLY LEADS TO DEATH? Jesus NEVER EXPLAINS WHY they love their evil deeds. It is only stated as a MATTER OF FACT. Explain why and you will have your answer on the question you have asked. Because NEITHER make ANY SENSE AT ALL.
It is a question God did NOT EXPLAIN TO US and most likely it's because even if He did explain we would not UNDERSTAND IT.

 

[WheresEnoch]

If the light in us be darkness how great is that darkness?

Very great indeed.

But wait if I am accountable for my own actions, doesn't that mean that I have to pick up my own cross and follow Christ?
That sounds tough, I may have to sit and consider the cost first. I wouldn't want to start building a tower and then realize halfway in that I do not have enough to complete it, everyone would mock me.

So that would also mean that the prodigal son, who once left his father to live in a far away land and indulge in reckless living actually had to turn from his ways, stop his reckless living and to travel out of the far away country in order to meet with his father and find forgiveness? I wonder what would happen if that prodigal son departed from his father and went back to the foreign land of sin?

Maybe all that call Christ "Lord" will not actually enter heaven but only those who do the will of God and turn from their lawlessness.

That would make sense because Jesus did say that seed would fall on 4 different types of ground and only 1 type of ground would result in a plant growing unto life. The seed that falls on the path is taken by the devil, nothing occurs with that seed. Then you have the thorny soil, the seed (Word of God) starts to grow in this soil but then dies because they love their sin, the world, themselves and do not obey God. Many Many people must be dead plants, yet have been deceived into thinking that they are massive healthy trees.


Or just maybe the words of Christ are not applicable to us, maybe He only taught things that were relevant to those who lived during His time (pre-cross). Surely some will say that the laws of God are actually a curse which holds them and their fleshly desires in bondage against their will and were surely created by God to kill us if we dare be so foolish to obey them, thereby rejecting Christ's perfect completion of our everlasting, unshakable righteousness.

 

[WheresEnoch]

Oh Lord, why did you lead Paul to write in ways that are so hard for people to understand?

 

[Jeff_56]

remember that the disciples, including peter/cephas, did not understand until their minds were opened (it was granted) by their father in heaven. it was true then, it is true today. all of TORAH/ SCRIPTURE is a mystery to the world, and cannot be grasped nor understood by the world.

Oh Lord, why did you lead Paul to write in ways that are so hard for people to understand?

as for the other.... umhh, somewhat doubtful requests,

does no one remember that there is neither Jew nor greek in Christ Jesus ?

is everyone acting slow to understand on purpose ?

did no one look up what yahshua says about lawyers and the (he called) torah teachers ?

did no one look up who is being rejected when an earthly leader is asked for ?
(in Israel, a king; in the usa, a republican)

how come several picked out these, and didn't say there will be GREEDY people in heaven ??? (there won't be, btw)....

as for roman catholics - since catholicism is heresy, and no heretics are in heaven.... figure that one out yourselves.... it is simple enough for a first grader!
(remember that here on earth, yahweh calls his people OUT OF PAGANISM, OUT OF IDOLATRY, OUT OF HERESY, as well as OUT OF GREED, OUT OF WORLDLINESS, OUT OF FAKERY, OUT OF HYPOCRISY...
the good shepherd leads the sheep who will listen to him, his own sheep,
out of all the sin of men(including catholicism) , away from the destroyer of souls,
and
yahweh continually guards his own)

hint: in heaven to come, there are also no lutherans, baptists, methodists, etc etc etc.....
any more than there are Jews or greeks..... and those are not called heresy here. (i.e. not nearly as bad, to start with).

(now are someone starting to understand?)

 

[valiant]

remember that the disciples, including peter/cephas, did not understand until their minds were opened (it was granted) by their father in heaven. it was true then, it is true today. all of TORAH/ SCRIPTURE is a mystery to the world, and cannot be grasped nor understood by the world.



as for the other.... umhh, somewhat doubtful requests,

does no one remember that there is neither Jew nor greek in Christ Jesus ?

is everyone acting slow to understand on purpose ?

did no one look up what yahshua says about lawyers and the (he called) torah teachers ?

did no one look up who is being rejected when an earthly leader is asked for ?
(in Israel, a king; in the usa, a republican)

how come several picked out these, and didn't say there will be GREEDY people in heaven ??? (there won't be, btw)....

as for roman catholics - since catholicism is heresy, and no heretics are in heaven.... figure that one out yourselves.... it is simple enough for a first grader!
(remember that here on earth, yahweh calls his people OUT OF PAGANISM, OUT OF IDOLATRY, OUT OF HERESY, as well as OUT OF GREED, OUT OF WORLDLINESS, OUT OF FAKERY, OUT OF HYPOCRISY...
the good shepherd leads the sheep who will listen to him, his own sheep,
out of all the sin of men(including catholicism) , away from the destroyer of souls,
and
yahweh continually guards his own)

hint: in heaven to come, there are also no lutherans, baptists, methodists, etc etc etc.....
any more than there are Jews or greeks..... and those are not called heresy here. (i.e. not nearly as bad, to start with).

(now are someone starting to understand?)

I see. so now you are saying everyone is in Heaven because in Heaven NONE of us will be what we are on earth?

 

[Jeff_56]

I see. so now you are saying everyone is in Heaven because in Heaven NONE of us will be what we are on earth?

only in part.

remember yahshua said to ask for yahweh's will to be done "on earth as it is in heaven",
so
all those
things that
are sinful and won't be in heaven are to be repented of for anyone immersed in yahshua's name, abiding in him.

 

[WheresEnoch]

only in part.

remember yahshua said to ask for yahweh's will to be done "on earth as it is in heaven",
so
all those
things that
are sinful and won't be in heaven are to be repented of for anyone immersed in yahshua's name, abiding in him.

Share more wisdom with me

 

[SarahM777]

I agree that the intent of the tree of the knowledge of all things (Good and Evil) was an opportunity to demonstrate love by obedience.
I agree that love should still provoke us to obedience.

However:

Ro 8:6-9
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
KJV

teaches us that without the Holy Spirit's enabling; obedience, which is pleasing to God; is impossible.

Jesus clarifies it even further

John 15

15 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[SUP][a][/SUP] so that it will be even more fruitful. [SUP]3 [/SUP]You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. [SUP]7 [/SUP]If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. [SUP]11 [/SUP]I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. [SUP]12 [/SUP]My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. [SUP]14[/SUP]You are my friends if you do what I command. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This is my command: Love each other.

What is so hard to understand about that?

So what does it all boil down to? I think it's really very very very simple. We can neither be saved or do those things He asks us to do APART FROM HIM. And all the warnings are about not walking AWAY from Him. If we walk away from Him we CAN'T do it.


And to take it down to brass tacks,it's to remain TOTALLY DEPENDENT on Him just as a LITTLE CHILD depends upon their Father.