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J
Wow! Thank you, perhaps need to get irritated more often! The "Likes" are reluctant, for your magnanimous kindness Popeye, not for any personal gratification of feeling praise worthy. It was one of those rare moments where enough is enough. Though I read precious little of some names who just repeat themselves ad nauseam, the clutter and thread waste gets old. This concept of some they're perfect, have sacred names or, as if, secret decoder rings and private interpretations that make them God's very special little creatures, those who believe just the mention of grace means you must be a serial killer, that if you die with an untrimmed nostril hair you're damned, the Jew-lite sabbaths, feasts and Jesus dying to try and increase Torah or Catechism or Ellen White book sales numbers, this grace that's not really grace: it's boring and offensive to the work and blood of Christ. I thought this was a place for Bible discussion, not Bible plus dead false prophets' book blather. Repetitious trolls are borrr-ing. The cult brainwashed are borrr-ing. Bottom line, it's tiring enough, those who don't understand the simple gospel of Jesus Christ, whose presence is some sort of bickering, spiritual backwardation. Instead of endlessly repeating their errors, they should just once and for all state they don't understand the Bible and leave it there. Our Lord Jesus put the Pharisees to bed, and we don't need these "born again" Pharisees two thousand years later, which is precisely their spirit. But peace to you, Popeye, and all the humble and thankful, clothed in the righteousness of Christ, not their own filthy rags.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
It is a mind boggling situation.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Luk 14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
E
so, You DEMAND we answer your question. Yet refuse to answer others questions?
Sounds hypocritical to me.
Sorry, Faith is NOT A FEELING. thats the problem with christianity today, they turn something real and powerful. and make it a FEELING.
no wonder people think faith can be lost. if salvation is based on FEELINGS. what hope can ANYONE HAVE?
Sounds hypocritical to me.
Sorry, Faith is NOT A FEELING. thats the problem with christianity today, they turn something real and powerful. and make it a FEELING.
no wonder people think faith can be lost. if salvation is based on FEELINGS. what hope can ANYONE HAVE?
E
sorry, That does not answer the question, In fact, it supports what I said.
Faith in God leads to forgiveness and eternal life.
Lack of faith (In CHrist) leads to condemnation. Because those peoples love (FAITH) Is in the world. not God.
Which supports what I have been saying, and supports eternal security. .
Maybe I am asking you the wrong question. It is obvious you do not understand what faith is. maybe we need to go there? What is your defenition of faith. and what does scripture define it as?
Faith in God leads to forgiveness and eternal life.
Lack of faith (In CHrist) leads to condemnation. Because those peoples love (FAITH) Is in the world. not God.
Which supports what I have been saying, and supports eternal security. .
Maybe I am asking you the wrong question. It is obvious you do not understand what faith is. maybe we need to go there? What is your defenition of faith. and what does scripture define it as?
Sorry EG,
First you never dealt the point I was making.
Second Where does that passage say that one CAN NOT stop believing and go into unbelief? Point it out. Point out anywhere in that verse it's one time thing and not a belief that continues in belief. PROVE IT.
Third you NEVER deal with the fact that it's a HEART ISSUE. One goes INTO unbelief by HARDENING their heart. The matter of whether one believes is and will be in this life is a HEART ISSUE. When you can understand the heart then you WILL understand WHY one would go into unbelief. Till then it's not possible to answer the WHY. You can NOT POINT out one verse that says a believer CAN NOT harden his heart. It's NOT THERE. We are warned NOT TO harden our hearts.
First you never dealt the point I was making.
Second Where does that passage say that one CAN NOT stop believing and go into unbelief? Point it out. Point out anywhere in that verse it's one time thing and not a belief that continues in belief. PROVE IT.
Third you NEVER deal with the fact that it's a HEART ISSUE. One goes INTO unbelief by HARDENING their heart. The matter of whether one believes is and will be in this life is a HEART ISSUE. When you can understand the heart then you WILL understand WHY one would go into unbelief. Till then it's not possible to answer the WHY. You can NOT POINT out one verse that says a believer CAN NOT harden his heart. It's NOT THERE. We are warned NOT TO harden our hearts.
And to take further it's the hardening of the heart,that leads INTO unbelief. Unrepentant sin,continued sin,false doctrine,not heeding the leading of the Holy Spirit,etc etc etc all slowly but surely takes that heart of flesh that God has given us INTO a heart of STONE. Once that heart has become as HARD AS A ROCK it goes INTO unbelief. That is the WHAT that happens,but it CAN NOT explain the why the heart hardens.
What most people call faith is totally meaningless to what scripture actually shows what it is REALLY is. True faith is TOTAL DEPENDENCY AND TRUST in the same MANNER as a little children TRUSTS and DEPENDS upon their father. And the child shows their trust in their father BY DOING what their father asks of them.
J
This is the one point of OSAS I've never had a handle on, in light of a number of scriptures, how the Lord clearly states nobody can pluck His from His hand, but can a person renounce the faith? This is not being plucked from His hand. The pat answer, "Well, they were never saved," can't really be known by any of us. I don't know how I can say some who certainly had all the markings of sincere Christians, then went south, never believed, at all? Does our God, not a God of compulsion, suddenly negate free will of those who are saved? Is there any scripture that states it is impossible for one to walk away from the faith, that is it impossible to, of one's own will, cease to abide in the faith?
B
Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen... Think of that verse for a moment... for how can we hope for that which we have seen... The just shall walk and live by faith or according to the evidence of things not seen or perceived by the senses... What we have been given by grace through faith is eternal, for the things that can be seen are temporal... When we hear the word of God our capacity for faith in increased and enlarged... When we make faith active, that which is eternal fills up our cup and spills over to others... This is a faith that works by the unconditional love of God... This faith, that is active through love, gives hope and assurance of things eternal that are established in heaven and in our hearts through the Holy Spirit... Faith is not an idea of what might be but is the very reality and assurance of all things eternal...Christ is eternal life and we are take hold of Him... For us to live is Christ and by the faith of the Son of God who died and gave his life for us... To walk by faith is to have the Son reigning in our hearts and being quickened by the Holy Spirit.
Faith in the Son is the opposite of unbelief, which has no hope. To walk away from that which is eternal is to walk away from hope and when hope is deferred it makes the heart sick and despondent. Many believers have found themselves in this place of despondency and seem to lose hope, but God uses this to draw them to himself so that they will rely and lean on him and his promises in all things. Just think of what we would be without believing in the promises of God. For by our new nature we are children of promise and all the promises of God in Christ are yea and AMEN, though they are not seen. As children of God we walk in the light, which is by faith in the promises of God. We have been born of an incorruptible seed that remains in us according to God's promise and we walk by faith trusting in the character, integrity and nature of the one who made the promise. If any walk away, go after them and point them to the promises of God and build them in the assurance of those promises, for faithful is He who has promised. The words that Jesus has spoken unto us are spirit and life because they are filled with the promise of eternal life.
Faith in the Son is the opposite of unbelief, which has no hope. To walk away from that which is eternal is to walk away from hope and when hope is deferred it makes the heart sick and despondent. Many believers have found themselves in this place of despondency and seem to lose hope, but God uses this to draw them to himself so that they will rely and lean on him and his promises in all things. Just think of what we would be without believing in the promises of God. For by our new nature we are children of promise and all the promises of God in Christ are yea and AMEN, though they are not seen. As children of God we walk in the light, which is by faith in the promises of God. We have been born of an incorruptible seed that remains in us according to God's promise and we walk by faith trusting in the character, integrity and nature of the one who made the promise. If any walk away, go after them and point them to the promises of God and build them in the assurance of those promises, for faithful is He who has promised. The words that Jesus has spoken unto us are spirit and life because they are filled with the promise of eternal life.
E
1. ever heard of eternal life. Is it eternal or not.
2. Every heard of what the term ALREADY means? it means it was not something that happened, and they FELL BACK INTO. It means it was a state they were in (condemned) and a state they remain in.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
3. Why do people not believe? THEY LOVE THEIR EVIL DEADS and DO NOT WANT THEM EXPOSED.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
Nothing in hear states on can fall from faith. Everything in there says one who has faith HAS eternal life, and IS NOT condemned.
yet you want me to believe they have only conditional life. and only MAY NOT BE condemned (for they may fall back)
sorry, it does not fit the passage.
2. Every heard of what the term ALREADY means? it means it was not something that happened, and they FELL BACK INTO. It means it was a state they were in (condemned) and a state they remain in.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
3. Why do people not believe? THEY LOVE THEIR EVIL DEADS and DO NOT WANT THEM EXPOSED.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. [SUP]21 [/SUP]But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
Nothing in hear states on can fall from faith. Everything in there says one who has faith HAS eternal life, and IS NOT condemned.
yet you want me to believe they have only conditional life. and only MAY NOT BE condemned (for they may fall back)
sorry, it does not fit the passage.
E
yep
which is why they will never lose salvation, or lose faith. because as abraham showed when he went into sarah at almost 100 years of age, and sacrificed his son,
he had FULL ASSURANCE God would do what he promised.
One does not go from full assurance of something, then loses that assurance when the one he has faith in NEVER LETS HIM DOWN.
But you refuse to answer how a person who has this true faith would ever lose faith when the one they trust never lets them down. because you have to be right.
which is why they will never lose salvation, or lose faith. because as abraham showed when he went into sarah at almost 100 years of age, and sacrificed his son,
he had FULL ASSURANCE God would do what he promised.
One does not go from full assurance of something, then loses that assurance when the one he has faith in NEVER LETS HIM DOWN.
But you refuse to answer how a person who has this true faith would ever lose faith when the one they trust never lets them down. because you have to be right.
E
1. are you a someone? yes you are. thus you, as a somebody, and nobody is able to pluck your hands from God.
2. I have known many spiritual people who walk the walk, look like Christians, act like Christians, yet after they walk away, you can see things which showed it was all a game.
what I will never understand is someone who has full assurance they will go to hell apart from Christ, full assurance Christ died to save them, and all they need to do is recieve, could fall from this assurance, when God never lets them down. Unless they never had full assurance in the first place.
2. I have known many spiritual people who walk the walk, look like Christians, act like Christians, yet after they walk away, you can see things which showed it was all a game.
what I will never understand is someone who has full assurance they will go to hell apart from Christ, full assurance Christ died to save them, and all they need to do is recieve, could fall from this assurance, when God never lets them down. Unless they never had full assurance in the first place.