Abortion question

tenderhearted · Apr 12, 2015

Hlyghst1 no one is assuming that a baby would prefer life instead of paradise with God. The bible says that God fearfully and wonderfully created human beings for his purpose. To not be in agreement with that and to have your perspective is to justify abortion. Abortion is an act of violence against a child. You can't twist God's truth and paint a different picture. Abortion is wrong no matter what the result is and just because a baby gets to go to heaven doesn't make it right. This was never God's design for man. At the end of the day what matters is that we follow God's perfect will. You don't have to agree with us, and we are not trying to condemn you for your thought process, but maybe you should pray about this topic and let God speak to you.

Elin · Apr 12, 2015

Hlyghst1 said:

As a Christian, I've always stood firmly against abortion as its always seemed a terrible act producing a terrible result. However, I've recently looked at it from a new perspective that I feel somewhat guilty for and would like some insight on. I still see the act as completely despicable but do not necessarily see the result in the same light. I cannot see a scenario where any of those children would not make it into heaven. Obviously for those living our lives here on earth, heaven is the ultimate goal. We're tested, tempted, endure amazing hardships, and at the end hope that we ended our lives on the best possible terms.
Those children, it seems to me, received the ultimate goal without enduring any hardships but yet
all the benefits that heaven has to offer. I cannot see our earthly lessons being a real advantage in heaven that those children would need to be happy in heaven. Obviously all souls in heaven are happy or content otherwise whats the point. If that is the case, aren't those children the lucky ones? Why would we continue to see the result as a bad thing?

That assumes all were predestined to eternal life (Ro 8:29-30), which is something we don't know.

Richie_2uk · Apr 12, 2015

Hlyghst1 said:

Try looking at it from God's point of view. God created life in us to make life. I understand that people are preasured in panic as to what to do in some situations regarding abortion. But Who are we to get rid of life that God created? perhaps thats another angle to look upon. but I know its a difficult descision for the person in that situation. Some are forced into it. some has not choice, or they cant see a choice. I personally disagree in abortion. and to me personally, its not right to do. But thats me. but who are we to go against God, to kill to abort a life that God created? thats the angle I look at.

FollowtheLight · Apr 12, 2015

I’m surprised I stumbled across such a contentious topic. I will be the first to say that Hlyghst1 brings up an interesting position as God does and truly can work in mysterious ways. Heaven is the ultimate goal because we all strive to be with him in the end and worship him for eternity and it truly does make me happy knowing that all those infants who suffered are now living in the kingdom of God. I’m happy he chose to pose the question so that the rest of us may chime in with our knowledge but what I’m actually more disturbed to read is that so many responders on this thread are posting as if they know God’s will or plan. God has punished man for their sins and atrocities and we all could still be paying that price today in the form of abortion.

Who am I or anyone else to presume that this is not all part of gods will or plan? God routinely commanded people to kill in the Old Testament, why are we to presume he does not do that today?

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

In Exodus god killed all firstborn in Egypt due to a higher plan; how do we know there isn’t currently a higher plan that none of us are aware of?

Exodus 12:29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

Perhaps these children’s parents were sinners and are paying the ultimate price; this is clear in:

Isaiah 14:21: Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

Hosea 9:11-16: The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.

To answer Hlyghst1, I truly believe that abortion is a deplorable act and should not happen, however I’ll never question God’s methods. God punished sinners by fire, sword, rock, water, plaque, bears, sacrifice, cannibalism, rape and dismemberment; all of which are equally despicable acts to me but none that should be questioned as they were done by God’s will. God’s intentions are far out of mine or anyone else’s comprehension and therefore I’d prefer to look at this as God was saving those children from potential life atrocities and thus sending them to his kingdom to live in Happiness for eternity.

I should also remind all of those who presume to speak for and/or know God’s plans, please remember:

Deuteronomy 18:20: But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.

kaylagrl · Apr 12, 2015

FollowtheLight said:

I’m surprised I stumbled across such a contentious topic. I will be the first to say that Hlyghst1 brings up an interesting position as God does and truly can work in mysterious ways. Heaven is the ultimate goal because we all strive to be with him in the end and worship him for eternity and it truly does make me happy knowing that all those infants who suffered are now living in the kingdom of God. I’m happy he chose to pose the question so that the rest of us may chime in with our knowledge but what I’m actually more disturbed to read is that so many responders on this thread are posting as if they know God’s will or plan. God has punished man for their sins and atrocities and we all could still be paying that price today in the form of abortion.

Who am I or anyone else to presume that this is not all part of gods will or plan? God routinely commanded people to kill in the Old Testament, why are we to presume he does not do that today?

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

In Exodus god killed all firstborn in Egypt due to a higher plan; how do we know there isn’t currently a higher plan that none of us are aware of?

Exodus 12:29 At midnight the Lord struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well.

Perhaps these children’s parents were sinners and are paying the ultimate price; this is clear in:

Isaiah 14:21: Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

Hosea 9:11-16: The glory of Israel will fly away like a bird, for your children will die at birth or perish in the womb or never even be conceived. Even if your children do survive to grow up, I will take them from you. It will be a terrible day when I turn away and leave you alone. I have watched Israel become as beautiful and pleasant as Tyre. But now Israel will bring out her children to be slaughtered.

To answer Hlyghst1, I truly believe that abortion is a deplorable act and should not happen, however I’ll never question God’s methods. God punished sinners by fire, sword, rock, water, plaque, bears, sacrifice, cannibalism, rape and dismemberment; all of which are equally despicable acts to me but none that should be questioned as they were done by God’s will. God’s intentions are far out of mine or anyone else’s comprehension and therefore I’d prefer to look at this as God was saving those children from potential life atrocities and thus sending them to his kingdom to live in Happiness for eternity.

I should also remind all of those who presume to speak for and/or know God’s plans, please remember:

Deuteronomy 18:20: But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.

I'm not sure if you are joking or serious.I hope its the former.I've only read two paragraphs of your post and there are so many things contrary to the Bible in it that I dont know where to start. Abortion is never,ever,ever Gods will.Ever.I dont how long you've been a Christian,I assume you are.But there is no way,any shape or form that abortion is Gods will.No one needs to presume Gods plans or will,read it in the Bible.Once again,abortion is never Gods will.

pwrnJC · Apr 12, 2015

Yes, obviously, abortion is what it is...a total failure of mankind in all aspects. Like Divorce, or anything else that humans can imagine as 'sin'. However, it is NOT the unpardonable sin. GOD does and can forgive, just like HE forgives any other sin. How dare we label some sins as being minor, while others are on other levels. We find that there are BIBLICAL events where children were 'wiped out' as a command by GOD to destroy Everything. GOD knows the future. GOD sees that some children grow up and turn "BAD NEWS". Imagine if Hitler had of been aborted...his parents before his conception, were uncle and neice. Six million jews and gypsies would not have died by his hand, right? We simply don't know, but I serve a GOD that I can trust, even though I may NOT understand and see things with only my earthly eyes. I will never tell a teenage mother that she is hell bound because she had an abortion...it is not MY authority.

atwhatcost · Apr 12, 2015

kaylagrl said:

I'm no more sure your concept is in accordance with the Bible either. So, God doesn't always get his will? Millions of infants die each year because God is inept?

Pharaoh was God's will, just not in a good way for Pharaoh. God's will included the Israelite's firstborns being killed, Moses escaped, all the firstborns of Egypt were killed, and the entire Egyptian army was killed. It was also God's will that quite a few Israelites were killed for creating the golden calf, and the ones the Levites missed, God killed to the tune of 3,000. Aaron was involved, and yet it wasn't God's will for him to die then. Some of that was for the good of the people killed, most wasn't, some of it was for the good of God's people, and some of it was to shape up God's people. Surely you understand God kills justly -- if not just to the victim, in some way we'll never know, for God's glory.

Surely the Bible doesn't teach "God just can't help it."

kaylagrl · Apr 12, 2015

pwrnJC said:

Yes, obviously, abortion is what it is...a total failure of mankind in all aspects. Like Divorce, or anything else that humans can imagine as 'sin'. However, it is NOT the unpardonable sin. GOD does and can forgive, just like HE forgives any other sin. How dare we label some sins as being minor, while others are on other levels. We find that there are BIBLICAL events where children were 'wiped out' as a command by GOD to destroy Everything. GOD knows the future. GOD sees that some children grow up and turn "BAD NEWS". Imagine if Hitler had of been aborted...his parents before his conception, were uncle and neice. Six million jews and gypsies would not have died by his hand, right? We simply don't know, but I serve a GOD that I can trust, even though I may NOT understand and see things with only my earthly eyes. I will never tell a teenage mother that she is hell bound because she had an abortion...it is not MY authority.

So abortion is right because the kids would have grown up to be sinners? Is that what you are saying?! God doesn't care about millions of aborted children.Abortion isn't morally wrong? Is that your view or am I missing something?

kaylagrl · Apr 12, 2015

atwhatcost said:

My post wasn't to you.But since you answered I cannot believe that there are Christians that would agree with abortion.I can not wrap my head around that.What God does in punishing in the OT is His affair.He created life,He has the right to take life.In the situations you talked about in the OT that was Gods judgment.

You say "Pharaoh was God's will, just not in a good way for Pharaoh." No it was not Gods will! Pharaoh refused to obey God,he refused to let the Jews go.His SIN caused the death of many,that was not Gods will.God isn't some cosmic being with a magnifying glass seeing how many people he can kill today. Quote " It was also God's will that quite a few Israelites were killed for creating the golden calf".... Again it was not Gods will.He told the Israelites not to make graven images,they did and were punished for it. How is that Gods fault? You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the God of the Bible.

Elijah19 · Apr 12, 2015

The thing to consider here is that it is wrong to deny someone the ability to live and make the tough choices, take the hard knocks, and be their own person. Yes, in a sense, dead infants are lucky because they are set for heaven. But that, first and fore-mostly, does not justify the murder that is abortion, regardless. Also, ask yourself the following. Who are we to deny a person's right to live and make the decision between heaven and hell? The power of choice is what is taken away by abortion. Even though abortion proponents so strongly suggest that they are "pro-choice" (*which is a misnomer), they cannot escape the fact that they are actually stealing the choices of life from the child.

Why should we allow someone to live and have the chance to go to hell when they are set for heaven you ask? Well, for the same reason that God allows evil to exist in this world... Because it grant's a choice, and with it a chance to grow in maturity of trials which brings wisdom. Plus, no one has the right to deny anybody else their right to choose God, or not, anyway. Doing so is an act of playing God itself!

Hlyghst1 · Apr 17, 2015

A little off the topic here but curious as to why about half of all fertilized eggs die and are lost (aborted) spontaneously, many times before the woman even knows she's pregnant? Why would god do that?

Kaycie · Apr 17, 2015

Ecclesiastes says "...even better yet is he who has not been born and has not seen the evil that is done under the sun." And what evil is being done? Things such as murder! Which includes taking human life before birth. Only God made human life, only God has the right to take human life. He set up police, armies, and judges and appointed them to do this on His behalf. But anyone who decides to take human life upon their own decision commits murder, and the bible says murders will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If you murder someone, no matter what their age, you are a murder-er, you are the evil that is shameful under the sun.

Hlyghst1 · Apr 18, 2015

Kaycie said:

Ecclesiastes says "...even better yet is he who has not been born and has not seen the evil that is done under the sun." And what evil is being done? Things such as murder! Which includes taking human life before birth. Only God made human life, only God has the right to take human life. He set up police, armies, and judges and appointed them to do this on His behalf. But anyone who decides to take human life upon their own decision commits murder, and the bible says murders will not enter the kingdom of heaven. If you murder someone, no matter what their age, you are a murder-er, you are the evil that is shameful under the sun.

I think I finally received the answer I was looking for! Thank you!

AgeofKnowledge · Apr 18, 2015

All kinds of people get to heaven from every type of background and circumstance so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Could you be more specific? Are you in a place of pain in your life that is influencing you to assert that murdering an unborn human is better for them than actually being born because not being born is a guaranteed pass to heaven while being born carries the free-will risk of choosing wrongly and ending in hell?

Please explain your position clearly so I can respond properly as I cannot yet grasp where you're coming from based on your rambling post. No offense, and thank you.

Hlyghst1 said:

presidente · Apr 18, 2015

Hlyghst1 said:

The Bible doesn't address the issue of what happens to all babies when they die. It does say of the children of a believer married to an unbeliever 'else were your children unclean, but now are they holy.'

But if it's not a bad thing to kill babies by abortion, wouldn't the same logic apply to going into the shopping mall or baby day care center with a machine gun?

I believe those who commit murder have blood-guilt before the Lord, no matter what happens to the victim after death. Abel's blood cried out, even though he is called 'righteous Abel.'

Elin · Apr 18, 2015

Hlyghst1 said:

Who is in a position to know that?

MyLighthouse · Apr 18, 2015

It isn't the result of the child, but the result of the mother. What happens to her heart? What happens to her spiritually? Physically?

God knows all but what if that child was called to be something or do something for the Lord? I was suppose to be aborted, ever reason for it: my mother was young, she would die having me, no money, no real future for me. All that was wrong and people have said that because of me life has been better for them...I worry if I wasn't here what would had been the result for them. Many of us that were suppose to not be here, have made a difference.

Every life is worth living for the Lord, those children can't receive any crown I don't think because they were not able to have a chance to live a godly life.

atwhatcost · Apr 18, 2015

kaylagrl said:

God accidentally hardened Pharaoh's heart? Really really. I mean God gets his will each and every time -- right down to choosing that man at that time to do that thing, those men and women at that time to do that thing, and those babies at that moment to die. It wasn't in Pharaoh's favor. It's not necessarily in the mother's favor or the child's favor, but he's not magnifying glass this. He's outside and inside time and space. He created time and space. He's using all this for his will and his glory even when it looks as messed up as it does to us. He even orchestrated the Super Bowl for his will, though absolutely none of us will every figure out how that can be. Or why. (lol) Really really. I'm not lying. If it happens, it's God's will.

I think it behooves us to realize that or we're excusing God for a bunch of stuff he doesn't need to be excused for.

4000 babies murdered every day (and old stats). GOD's WILL.
Hitler. God's will.
The Trade Center. God's will.
And just as much his will, Jesus came down to die for whosoever will believe.

All his will is accomplished even when it looks completely, utterly unlike God. It IS God. All of it is God. We're the ones with the magnifying glass trying to understand the universe through it. That's our problem, not God's.

It becomes our problem when we are Pharaoh. It becomes our problem if we don't do what we can to save those helpless babies, when we could have done something to prevent one murder. It becomes our problem when we look the other way when the least of us is taking a hit, but still, even then, God's will is done! Always, always, always, or it wouldn't have been done.

Isn't that what he told Job long ago? After all, why did Job go through all that? To bring him closer to God. He was a man after God's own heart, so he was already as close as close can be, and yet..? Job didn't get back all he lost. He lost 10 kids. You don't simply have more babies to replace ones lost. God's will. No other explanation.

atwhatcost · Apr 18, 2015

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

I've always assumed the opposite of this is "And we know that all things work together for the bad to them that hate God, to them who aren't the called according to his purposes."

If I'm wrong on the latter, I'm sure on the former. All things -- including the truly horrendous.

atwhatcost · Apr 18, 2015

Hlyghst1 said:

I hate to be repetitive, but some things are worth repeating -- God's will. His glory.

Abortion question

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