When does the rapture occur?
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In the future, there will be a Little Horn.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Titus did none of the above. Titus did not want the temple destroyed. His troops did it on their own accord.
What does the Little Horn do that Titus did not do?
He speaks pompous words. He intends to change times and law. He defiles the sanctuary forces. He takes away the "daily" (sacrifices) and places (there) the abomination of desolation. The words "sacrifices" and "there" were not in the original text as they are italicized. They were added by the translators. Daniel did not sacrifice daily, he prayed daily. It was his daily prayer that they attempted to take away in Babylon. It is daily prayer that the Little Horn will take away, not sacrifices as there are no sacrifices any more.
1. speaking great things and blasphemies
2. Intends to change times and law
3. Defiles the sanctuary fortress
4. Take away the "daily" prayer
5. Places the Abomination of Desolation
Defiling the temple and burning it to the ground are not the same things. There is no temple today and it does not need to be rebuilt, neither do sacrifices need to resume. All things are in place now.
Where do Jews pray now? The Wailing Wall or Western Wall. So where will the A of D be placed? At the Wailing Wall. Jews and Muslims each have certain "times" and "daily" customs. Thus Islam will attempt to take away the Jewish customs and force Jews to adopt to Muslim customs thus changing times, laws and commandments of God.
What will the A of D be? An image to the Beast of the Sea. Since the image speaks it will likely be a big flat screen TV playing Islamic messages. If I am right, this would mean that the Jews have been scattered and are no longer in charge of the Western Wall.
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Titus did none of the above. Titus did not want the temple destroyed. His troops did it on their own accord.
What does the Little Horn do that Titus did not do?
He speaks pompous words. He intends to change times and law. He defiles the sanctuary forces. He takes away the "daily" (sacrifices) and places (there) the abomination of desolation. The words "sacrifices" and "there" were not in the original text as they are italicized. They were added by the translators. Daniel did not sacrifice daily, he prayed daily. It was his daily prayer that they attempted to take away in Babylon. It is daily prayer that the Little Horn will take away, not sacrifices as there are no sacrifices any more.
1. speaking great things and blasphemies
2. Intends to change times and law
3. Defiles the sanctuary fortress
4. Take away the "daily" prayer
5. Places the Abomination of Desolation
Defiling the temple and burning it to the ground are not the same things. There is no temple today and it does not need to be rebuilt, neither do sacrifices need to resume. All things are in place now.
Where do Jews pray now? The Wailing Wall or Western Wall. So where will the A of D be placed? At the Wailing Wall. Jews and Muslims each have certain "times" and "daily" customs. Thus Islam will attempt to take away the Jewish customs and force Jews to adopt to Muslim customs thus changing times, laws and commandments of God.
What will the A of D be? An image to the Beast of the Sea. Since the image speaks it will likely be a big flat screen TV playing Islamic messages. If I am right, this would mean that the Jews have been scattered and are no longer in charge of the Western Wall.
J
Being Sunday and desiring to offer hope and encouragement, we should all count our blessings. I recall the horrors of the "Who Killed Goliath?" thread, daily seeing the unthinkable and inexplicable, the confusion bordering on despair that neither would die. Besides, there's a humanitarian purpose to this thread, as PlainWord needs some sort of career.
LOL, I wish I needed a career. I have 3 going at once, not counting this
. But you will be glad to know my pastor started a series on Revelation last week. I'm going to need some strength to get through it. He thinks Mystery Babylon is Rome. Guess he doesn't realize Rome wouldn't have been much of a mystery to John.
. But you will be glad to know my pastor started a series on Revelation last week. I'm going to need some strength to get through it. He thinks Mystery Babylon is Rome. Guess he doesn't realize Rome wouldn't have been much of a mystery to John.
J
LOL, I wish I needed a career. I have 3 going at once, not counting this. But you will be glad to know my pastor started a series on Revelation last week. I'm going to need some strength to get through it. He thinks Mystery Babylon is Rome. Guess he doesn't realize Rome wouldn't have been much of a mystery to John.
. But you will be glad to know my pastor started a series on Revelation last week. I'm going to need some strength to get through it. He thinks Mystery Babylon is Rome. Guess he doesn't realize Rome wouldn't have been much of a mystery to John.
No painted corner, LOL.
The two witnesses, as I've stated I don't know how many times, are not two people. They are the Church and Israel.
I agree, the dead in Christ, both martyrs and non martyrs through the ages are raised together. Revelation was written in Apocalyptic literary style which is how much of Daniel was written. This style was common back in John's day and is popular any time you have an author who is writing under persecution and fear of reprisals. John wanted to get his message out and had to conceal the message using Biblical symbols taken mostly from Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel and his own which he often defines for us. John's intended audience (the 7 churches in Asia Minor), would understand his meaning while the Romans would not. Nostradamus wrote in the same literary style to protect himself in his day. Think of Revelation as a code book with most of the code solved in the OT which Jews would understand while unlearned Romans would not.
There are only two groups that could be said to be "witnesses" to God and Christ and they are the Church and Israel. John tells us in Rev 1 that a lampstand is a church and we know from Paul in Romans 11 that Israel is the natural olive tree while the Gentile Church is the wild olive tree. Apocalyptic works which don't identify the villain or victim would not cause a ruckus in John's day. The sooner you start correctly interpreting the symbols of Revelation, the sooner you will see the real meaning and not get lost in false literal explanations.
The take away of this topic is that the resurrection is before the "rapture." It is not at the same moment. Paul tells us this clearly:
"...that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."
Don't you see that? The dead precede the living, that's all of the dead, not just two people. If you were not a member of Israel and not part of the church, what were you? Outa luck!! John solves the identity of the 2 witnesses even clearer here.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child....17 and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The Woman (Israel) and her offspring (the Church)
What happens when the saved dead of Israel and the Church are resurrected?
Rev 11: [SUP]13 [/SUP]In the same hour there was a great earthquake...
Compare to the 6th seal.
Rev 6: [SUP]12 [/SUP]I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake.
We have a great earthquake at the resurrection and guess what? Everyone sees it and they are terrified:
Rev 11: ...and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 6: ...“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Imagine a great earthquake and suddenly the dead arise and ascend to heaven? Imagine those dead but not yet in the ground coming back to life at the same time and going up together with those who came out of graves? You bet they were terrified because this could only mean one thing!!
Painted into a corner, HA.
.The two witnesses, as I've stated I don't know how many times, are not two people. They are the Church and Israel.
I agree, the dead in Christ, both martyrs and non martyrs through the ages are raised together. Revelation was written in Apocalyptic literary style which is how much of Daniel was written. This style was common back in John's day and is popular any time you have an author who is writing under persecution and fear of reprisals. John wanted to get his message out and had to conceal the message using Biblical symbols taken mostly from Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel and his own which he often defines for us. John's intended audience (the 7 churches in Asia Minor), would understand his meaning while the Romans would not. Nostradamus wrote in the same literary style to protect himself in his day. Think of Revelation as a code book with most of the code solved in the OT which Jews would understand while unlearned Romans would not.
There are only two groups that could be said to be "witnesses" to God and Christ and they are the Church and Israel. John tells us in Rev 1 that a lampstand is a church and we know from Paul in Romans 11 that Israel is the natural olive tree while the Gentile Church is the wild olive tree. Apocalyptic works which don't identify the villain or victim would not cause a ruckus in John's day. The sooner you start correctly interpreting the symbols of Revelation, the sooner you will see the real meaning and not get lost in false literal explanations.
The take away of this topic is that the resurrection is before the "rapture." It is not at the same moment. Paul tells us this clearly:
"...that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep."
Don't you see that? The dead precede the living, that's all of the dead, not just two people
. If you were not a member of Israel and not part of the church, what were you? Outa luck!! John solves the identity of the 2 witnesses even clearer here. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child....17 and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The Woman (Israel) and her offspring (the Church)
What happens when the saved dead of Israel and the Church are resurrected?
Rev 11: [SUP]13 [/SUP]In the same hour there was a great earthquake...
Compare to the 6th seal.
Rev 6: [SUP]12 [/SUP]I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake.
We have a great earthquake at the resurrection and guess what? Everyone sees it and they are terrified:
Rev 11: ...and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 6: ...“Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Imagine a great earthquake and suddenly the dead arise and ascend to heaven? Imagine those dead but not yet in the ground coming back to life at the same time and going up together with those who came out of graves? You bet they were terrified because this could only mean one thing!!
Painted into a corner, HA
.
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