For those who believe in false conversions even when people return...

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Jul 22, 2014
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That's going from rebirth, back to unbirth, and back to re-rebirth.

No, the NT does not teach that.

The back slider is just that--slidden back, not fallen fatally.


Yes, that is the condition of all the elect, who are all lost and dead sinners until they are "found" and made alive again, including the Gentiles, to which the Pharisees objected, thinking themselves never lost, dead, found and made alive again.
You don't want to believe James 5:19-21, and the Parable of the Prodigal Son as they are written plainly. The Parable of the sower, Hebrews 10:26, 38-39, and Romans 11:21-22 also refute your line of thinking, as well.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Bad form! (A Captain Hook term. lol)

Paul did say, "God forbid," but that's in the middle of a whole treatise on why God and why us in relationship to God. Without the former and then the later, it doesn't cover the whole concept. God really did forbid and did something about all of it at the same time.

To cut it out is something like saying, "America's First Amendment says, "Congress shall make no law...of religion.'" It does say that, but it says much more than that and some really important words are missing.
No, Paul meant what he said plainly. He means we are not to continue in sin. He says you are a servant to whom you obey. Meaning, if a person serves sin, they are not God's servant.
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
Girrrrrl, that's something you & I definitely agree on!!!!! LOL!!!

Maybe, but I really need to repent of this...




This is good instruction

Prov 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man,
when thou perceivest not
in him the lips of knowledge.

I gotta work on denying that little girl side of myself
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Jason0047 said:
A believer (who was once saved) can
backslide into sin (and be in an unsaved state) to then being
renewed back to the faith again (to a saved state again).
That's going from rebirth, back to unbirth, and back to re-rebirth.

No, the NT does not teach that.

The back slider is just that--slidden back, not fallen fatally
.
In the Parable of the Prodigal Son,
the father said that his son was dead and was alive again two times. This is obviously speaking in spiritual terms. For when did Jesus not speak in spiritual terms when he was preaching?
Yes, that is the condition of all the elect sons of God who are all lost and dead sinners until they are "found" and made alive again, including the Gentiles, to which the Pharisees objected, thinking themselves never lost, dead, found and made alive again.
You don't want to believe James 5:19-21, and the Parable of the Prodigal Son as they are written plainly. The Parable of the sower, Hebrews 10:26, 38-39, and Romans 11:21-22 also refute your line of thinking, as well.
I do not see Ja 5:19-20; Heb 10:26, 38-39 as contradicting 1Jn 2:19.

And there is more than one way to Biblically interpret the parable of the prodigal son.

I find much in the NT regarding rebirth, new birth, born again, but I find nothing regarding unbirthing.
 
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Jan 19, 2013
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You never overstep with me MarcR

You are one of the most precious and least partial persons on this board in my opinion.

I have alot of respect for you even the way you even correct others (including here with myself)

I will take that from you anyday,

I only talked to EG once before (and actually somewhat agreeably then)

I will take the blame for being stupid enough to ask where something was in the scripture.

Because I already knew full well that he was full of it (and that it wasnt in scripture)

Its good that you said something though, alot of the men here could actually learn a little something from your attempts at seeking to be a peacemaker.
Your mannerisms in doing so, and your way does not provoke, but actually felt very fatherly, and speaks well of you.

Now, that is something I have never experienced in Christ (thank you).

That was very warming actually.

God bless you MarcR, the Peace of Christ be with you
It's a Jewish thing. . .
 
Feb 9, 2010
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The Bible says that the gifts and calling of God are without repentance,which is on God's part.Once God calls you and you are saved God will not turn away from you even if you go back to the world,but will embrace you with open arms like the prodigal son which is what that message is about.

If you dabble in the world for a while you can come back and God will accept you.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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I do not see Ja 5:19-20; Heb 10:26, 38-39 as contradicting 1Jn 2:19.

And there is more than one way to Biblically interpret the parable of the prodigal son.

I find much in the NT regarding rebirth, new birth, born again, but I find nothing regarding unbirthing.
Well, there are a ton of passages you actually have to ignore or twist in order to make your belief work. But okay. Let's take a simple one that is not so easy to twist. Jesus said if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you. So how exactly do you interpret or twist those particular words by Jesus?
 
Dec 26, 2014
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and instead of "unbirthing" which i don't think is a word,

look up "have your name erased from the book of life" ..... just simply.... not with all the accoutrements ...

(as there is a lot for scholars to mess up about it... that little children just simply believe and trust him and rely on himj)
 
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DesiredHaven

Guest
Shows the gifts and callings here...

Thou hast ascended on high,
thou hast led captivity captive:
thou hast received gifts for men;
yea, for the rebellious also,
that the LORD God might
dwell
among them. (Psalm 68:18)

In respects to the gifts and calling of God it says,

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. (Romans 11:29)

And because he is good and upright, he will teach sinners

Good and upright is the LORD:
therefore will he teach sinners in the way. (Psalm 25:8)

Although not being a minister of sin, His goodness, forbearance and especially his longsuffering come in here


Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; (Romans 2:4a)
Not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

He is still leading us to repentence by the same, and we are to account his longsuffering as this (even salvation)

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation;
even as our beloved brother Paul also
according to the wisdom given unto him
hath written unto you
; (2 Peter 3:15)

He is longsuffering "us-ward" it says,
not willing that any should perish but rather that all (including ourselves)
should come to repentence (that is still the directed course)

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.
(2 Peter 3:9)

Even as the longsuffering of God is noted as that which waited in the very days of Noah (1 Peter 3:20)
out of which time we are told few (eight in all) were actually saved.


 
A

atwhatcost

Guest
No, Paul meant what he said plainly. He means we are not to continue in sin. He says you are a servant to whom you obey. Meaning, if a person serves sin, they are not God's servant.
The difference between you and Paul is Paul knew where his ability came from. That IS the point! You're assuming you are your salvation, sanctification and glorification.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Well, there are a ton of passages you actually have to ignore or twist in order to make your belief work.
And I see no contradictions among them.

But okay. Let's take a simple one that is not so easy to twist. Jesus said if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you. So how exactly do you interpret or twist those particular words by Jesus?
An unforgiving heart betrays a heart that has not been forgiven, which is salvation (Lk 1:77).
 
D

DesiredHaven

Guest
It's what they do. . .a rabbinical thing.

I love it about them.
Thats why I didnt get what you were saying,

They didnt do that with Jesus, and MarcR is nothing like those who love to be called Rabbi though

Although Paul was a Jew and a monster in his religion and then become circumcised in the heart by Jesus Christ

Unless you meant a Jew inwardly
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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Well, there are a ton of passages you actually have to ignore or twist in order to make your belief work. But okay. Let's take a simple one that is not so easy to twist. Jesus said if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you. So how exactly do you interpret or twist those particular words by Jesus?
No twist is necessary!

The basic premise is that Jesus died to purchase not only my forgiveness but the forgiveness of all mankind.

If I value what Jesus did for me so little that I am unwilling to forgive ANYONE Jesus died to save; then my supposed belief doesn't measure up to God's standard: and is not saving faith.

The expectation of forgiveness from us is about evidence of salvation not about loss of salvation.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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and instead of "unbirthing" which i don't think is a word,

look up "have your name erased from the book of life" ..... just simply.... not with all the accoutrements ...

(as there is a lot for scholars to mess up about it... that little children just simply believe and trust him and rely on himj)
And that is the key to the whole thing is for one to CONTINUE to trust,rely and LOVE HIM. Our problem is far too often we ask the WRONG question,the real question God is asking is this,"Do you LOVE ME?" God will not force anyone to love Him in return. It's the VERY SAME question Jesus asked Peter,EVEN AFTER he had denied Him three times. And everything that He asks us to do is to COME FROM A HEART of love that HE HAS CHANGED and to remain in that LOVE.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Thats why I didnt get what you were saying,

They didnt do that with Jesus, and MarcR is nothing like those who love to be called Rabbi though

Although Paul was a Jew and a monster in his religion and then become circumcised in the heart by Jesus Christ

Unless you meant a Jew inwardly
I meant any rabbi who was truly a man of God, then and now.
There were some then.

The Pharisees were not.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
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It's a Jewish thing. . .
I dont get it Elin, and I cant open a dictionary and actually try to lol
It's what they do. . .a rabbinical thing.

I love it about them.

In synagogue, Jewish people usually read from the Torah and the Prophets on Sabbath and discuss meaning and life application on Sunday morning.

In the course of discussing the scripture, we learn how to avoid becoming vested in our arguments. In other words we learn not to take disagreement with our position personally.

We learn how to attack ideas vigorously without attacking the people they come from.

this changes a Jewish person's entire approach to argument. It is never about winning or losing it is about seeking truth. It is better to learn that your thinking is faulty than to continue to think you are right when you are wrong.


Most of us would rather be corrected than wrong!
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
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How many people say false convert! While our Father is waiting on a prodigal son to lavish His on them, that same love another refuses to show to another.