When does the rapture occur?

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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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When you say "US" in verse 10, who is doing the talking or should I say, "who is doing the singing." Who is the "THEY THAT SUNG?" Let's walk through this again. I think we need to freshen up on basic reading comprehension and grammar.

Definitions

A noun is a word or set of words for a person, place, thing, or idea.

A verb is a word or set of words that shows action (runs, is going, has been painting); feeling (loves, envies); or state of being (am, are, is, have been, was, seem).
Examples:
He ran around the block.
I
like my friend.
They seem friendly.



Rule 1. To find the subject and verb, always find the verb first. Then ask who or what performed the verb.
Examples:
The jet engine passed inspection.
Passed is the verb. Who or what passed? The engine, so engine is the subject. (If you included the word jet as the subject, lightning will not strike you. But technically, jet is an adjective here and is part of what is known as the complete subject.)
From the ceiling hung the chandelier.
The verb is hung. Now, if you think ceiling is the subject, slow down. Ask who or what hung. The answer is the chandelier, not the ceiling. Therefore, chandelier is the subject.

Rule 2. Sentences can have more than one subject and more than one verb.
Examples:
I like cake, and he likes ice cream. (Two subjects and two verbs)
He and I like cake. (
Two subjects and one verb)
She lifts weights and jogs daily. (
One subject and two verbs)

Rule 3. If a verb follows to, it is called an infinitive, and it is not the main verb. You will find the main verb either before or after the infinitive.
Examples:
He is trying to leave.
To leave
is an infinitive; the main verb is trying.
To leave was his wish.
The main verb is was.


So, let's try this again. Verbs in blue, subject nouns in red:

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now when He (Lamb) had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they (4 LC & 24 E) sang a new song, saying:

Who had taken the scroll? He (Lamb)
Who fell down before the Lamb? Four Living Creatures and Twenty-four elders.
Who has the harp? Four Living Creatures and Twenty-four elders.
Who has the golden bowls? Four Living Creatures and Twenty-four elders.
Who sang a new song? They. Who does the "they" refer back to? Four Living Creatures and Twenty-four elders.

Now that we established that the 24 Elders were singing the new song, what does the song say?


You (Lamb) are worthy to take the scroll,
And to open its seals;

Lamb takes scroll
Lamb opens seals


For You (Lamb) were slain,
And have redeemed us (4 LC & 24 E) to God by Your blood

Lamb redeemed 24 Elders to God by Lamb's blood


Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

The 24 Elders were redeemed out of every tribe, tongue, people and nation.


Are you with me so far? The prayers of the saints are the incense in the bowls that the 24 Elders were holding. The Saints themselves are not the subject matter, it is the Four Living Creatures and 24 Elders who are singing about themselves. They happen to be holding "prayers of the saints" not the saints themselves.

Now that we've had this little Grammar lesson, who are being made kings and priests to God and who is reigning on earth?

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And have made us kings and priests to our God;
And we shall reign on the earth.”



Again, who is the "we?" It is NOT the Church. The Church isn't mention or even inferred. Did you follow the progression? The "we" is not all the Saints. The "We" are the 24 Elders and perhaps also the 4 Living Creatures.

The Lamb has made the 24 Elders priests to God and the 24 Elders shall reign on the earth. There is nothing in this passage that tells us that ALL THE SAINTS are going to be reigning too.

The only other passage I can think of on short notice is Paul writing to Timothy where he mentions to Timothy that if we "endure" we will reign with Him. The "we" is Paul and Timothy. The context is enduring suffering for the faith. Then we have Revelation 20 which discusses those specifically beheaded. The context there is clear and concise.

I am not aware of any passage that clearly and precisely tells us all Saints (from the beginning of Saints to the end) reign on earth with Christ. If you know of a passage, please enlighten me. Thank you.

t<><

I had no problem finding several examples of such verses. Maybe you should fire your Bible software and get the FREE WORDsearch Basic?


The 24 Elders represent the N.T. Church. Interestingly, if you do the math, we are in the 24th generation since Christ rose from the grave. Could it be that there 1 Elder for each generation? Could someone like Billy Graham be our Elder?

Revelation 22:3-5 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign forever and ever.

Revelation 20:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them {Church-age Saints}, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand{Tribulation Saints}; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

1 Corinthians 6:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Revelation 3:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

2 Timothy 2:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;

Revelation 2:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] 'He who overcomes, and he who keeps My deeds until the end, TO HIM I WILL GIVE AUTHORITY OVER THE NATIONS;
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
t<><

I had no problem finding several examples of such verses. Maybe you should fire your Bible software and get the FREE WORDsearch Basic?


The 24 Elders represent the N.T. Church. Interestingly, if you do the math, we are in the 24th generation since Christ rose from the grave. Could it be that there 1 Elder for each generation? Could someone like Billy Graham be our Elder?


I'm curious. How many years are you counting as a generation in that calculation?
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
t<><

I had no problem finding several examples of such verses. Maybe you should fire your Bible software and get the FREE WORDsearch Basic?


The 24 Elders represent the N.T. Church. Interestingly, if you do the math, we are in the 24th generation since Christ rose from the grave. Could it be that there 1 Elder for each generation? Could someone like Billy Graham be our Elder?


I'm curious. How many years are you counting as a generation in that calculation?
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
t<><

I had no problem finding several examples of such verses. Maybe you should fire your Bible software and get the FREE WORDsearch Basic?


The 24 Elders represent the N.T. Church. Interestingly, if you do the math, we are in the 24th generation since Christ rose from the grave. Could it be that there 1 Elder for each generation? Could someone like Billy Graham be our Elder?


I'm curious. How many years are you counting as a generation in that calculation?
to make it come out right it would need to be 84 or 85 years; but I only see Scriptural precedent for 70 or 120.
 
P

popeye

Guest
In the Parable of 10 Virgins, no timing is given. Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib, Pre-wrath, whatever. This parable works just fine in any scenario relative to the Tribulation. Again, and I repeat for the 1,058th time, YOU HAVE NO PASSAGE LOCATING THE RETURN OF CHRIST BEFORE THE GREAT TRIB IS OVER. You just don't PERIOD end of SENTENCE. You only have wishful thinking and conjecture. Sorry. I really am. I love the Pre-Trib fable. It's wonderful. To think those of us at the end get flown off and escape suffering for our faith would be ideal. The problem is, the opposite is actually taught.

When Christ returns to "take us to myself" where is he? HE RETURNS, meaning He is here. HELLO!!

Works Fine for any scenario? But pretrib is a fable?

Under this rule postrib is a fable?

1st you jettison pretrib and critique the parable,PROHIBITING THE OBVIOUS. Then you say,without basis it works for everybody.

1) there is not even a hint of what you need to place that scene in a destroyed earth with hail of fire and flying scorpions.
20 no hint of 99% of christians martyered .hich would read ""but most of the virgins were now dead but a remnant of 2 remained,one wise and one foolish"
3) "go buy from those that sell" Uh, did the sancions lift on the buying w/o a mark?
4) Then go into the wedding chamber and the foolish knock on the door
Hello??? Your corner painting demands a uturn w/no heavenly destination.
Postrib shreded is 30 seconds.................next
YOU DID IT AGAIN. YOU PAINTED YOURSELF INTO A CORNER.
The parable ONLY works pretrib. The bride groom dimendsion knocks that made up house of cards down over and over
 
P

popeye

Guest
t<><

I had no problem finding several examples of such verses. Maybe you should fire your Bible software and get the FREE WORDsearch Basic?


The 24 Elders represent the N.T. Church. Interestingly, if you do the math, we are in the 24th generation since Christ rose from the grave. Could it be that there 1 Elder for each generation? Could someone like Billy Graham be our Elder?


I'm curious. How many years are you counting as a generation in that calculation?
Elders could easily translate seniors,presbrytry,olders,patriaarchs ,etc

The key is "evry tribe,tongue,nation.........redeemed by the blood of Jesus from"
 
P

popeye

Guest
look I'm quoting scripture here. The only barren woman ever prophesied is the heavenly Jerusalem. That's Paul's understanding from the revelation of Christ to him, of which he quotes from Isaiah 54, and is what scripture is talking about. Not only that but Isaiah 66 clearly says that no sooner is Zion in labor she gives birth to her children. Do you think 12 chapters later Isaiah is talking of a different woman giving birth? Seriously, Paul quotes Isaiah 54 as fulfilling the Jerusalem above and 12 chapters later Isaiah is talking of a different woman giving birth? Please, as Hebrews 12:22 says: But you have come to Mount Zion,to the heavenly Jerusalem,*the city*of the living God.
And Isaiah prophesies than no sooner is Zion in labor that she gives birth to her children. The only woman I'm concerned about giving birth is our mother, the heavenly Jerusalem and I know no other woman who could do exactly what Revelation 12 says other than this very Zion. Period. The first covenant is obsolete, period. Hebrews 8:13-"By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one*obsolete; and what is*obsolete*and aging will soon disappear." There were two covenants, that's right. He made a covenant, but AS SCRIPTURE DECLARES, the first one will disappear, meaning the only covenant that matters now is the new covenant.
no,do a study on it. google it or whatever.

You have a part of the puzzle and claim it as the whole. Trust me.Do the study
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
To Popeye and VCO,

I wanted to see if either of you would invoke this verse which is found early, during the introduction of Revelation as John is providing his greetings to the 7 churches, but neither of you picked up on it.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and has made (PAST TENSE) us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Those of us who are believers and alive right now doing the work of Jesus on earth in this physical world are Kings and Priests right now!!! We don't need to wait until we die and return. Thus we are already kings and priests and already ruling on earth. We are witnesses to Christ and the Gospel. We have great power, but most (myself included) don't use it and don't know how to use it.


Mark 1:15

and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 17:20

Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation;

Luke 17:21
nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 18:17

Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Revelation 1:9
I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Note: John is already in the Kingdom. There is the spiritual kingdom of God and Christ that dwells within us. Mark 9:1 is the most powerful evidence to prove that the Kingdom doesn't wait for death as none of the disciples Jesus was speaking to were raptured, rather lived lives and died yet Jesus makes clear they receive the kingdom before death. The Kingdom of God does not come with observation, it is a spiritual (invisible) kingdom. The Holy Spirit bestows incredible powers on those who God calls.

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

[SUP]43 [/SUP]Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.

We are all Kings and Priests with incredible powers and we are ruling right now. The Kingdom of God is within us RIGHT NOW. We are his witnesses on earth ruling in His Kingdom, right now!!!
 
Last edited:

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
Elders could easily translate seniors,presbrytry,olders,patriaarchs ,etc

The key is "evry tribe,tongue,nation.........redeemed by the blood of Jesus from"
Popeye,

I was questioning VCO on how he arrived at this being the 24th generation since Jesus ascended.

I was not trying to enter into your and his prior discussion. I am prepared to be shown a valid basis for that belief; but I don't see it yet?

I was not challenging anything either of you said earlier in the thread. I skimmed over most of that discussion because I did not feel led to get into it.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
Gary,

I believe that the only "real and true" comparison being made in these verses has to do with the fact that "life as usual" is the only concern of the 'wicked'. Anything added to that, based on "details" that are not "covered" in the context of these verses, is not valid - and, only lends itself to error...

In other words, applying the details of these verses in an "order of events" way is "going beyond" the intended scope of the context of these verses. These verses are not describing anything in an "order of events" way -- they are, in fact, only describing the condition of humanity at the time of the Second Coming of Christ -- which is a snapshot in time.
Gary, I agree these passages are intended to convey the message that life "appears" normal to most just prior to the Return of Christ. However, there are passages (as I continue to show) that has the "wicked" being removed from the Kingdom. They are the one taken. The one who enters the kingdom is left behind. Mat 13 shows this very clearly.

To Popeye and others, I do want to revise and extend my remarks about the "wicked" tares. They are not unbelieving, per se. They are not your atheists, agnostics and those of pagan faith. The tares are said to be growing along side the true believer. Thus, the tares are those who act like Christians outwardly but inwardly they belong to Satan. They come to church, they worship and appear to belong to the Kingdom, yet they are wolves in sheep's clothing, working against the kingdom behind the scenes. They may not even know that they are doing it. That's the sad part.

“The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; [SUP]25 [/SUP]but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.

See, the tares are growing among us allowed to grow along side the wheat.

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”

But at the harvest, when Jesus sends forth His angels, they will FIRST gather the tares, removing them from the kingdom. See, they are "in the kingdom" and have to be removed from it.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, [SUP]42 [/SUP]and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

The Enemy is the Devil
The Reapers are Angels
The Harvest is at the End of the Age (not some day before the Tribulation)
The Tares are offensive things within the kingdom
The Wheat are the Righteous who are left behind then gathered "into the barn."
 
P

popeye

Guest
To Popeye and VCO,

I wanted to see if either of you would invoke this verse which is found early, during the introduction of Revelation as John is providing his greetings to the 7 churches, but neither of you picked up on it.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, [SUP]6 [/SUP]and has made (PAST TENSE) us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Those of us who are believers and alive right now doing the work of Jesus on earth in this physical world are Kings and Priests right now!!! We don't need to wait until we die and return. Thus we are already kings and priests and already ruling on earth. We are witnesses to Christ and the Gospel. We have great power, but most (myself included) don't use it and don't know how to use it.


Mark 1:15

and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 9:1
And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 17:20

Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation;

Luke 17:21
nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.

Luke 18:17

Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it.”

Revelation 1:9
I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Note: John is already in the Kingdom. There is the spiritual kingdom of God and Christ that dwells within us. Mark 9:1 is the most powerful evidence to prove that the Kingdom doesn't wait for death as none of the disciples Jesus was speaking to were raptured, rather lived lives and died yet Jesus makes clear they receive the kingdom before death. The Kingdom of God does not come with observation, it is a spiritual (invisible) kingdom. The Holy Spirit bestows incredible powers on those who God calls.

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. [SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

[SUP]43 [/SUP]Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles.

We are all Kings and Priests with incredible powers and we are ruling right now. The Kingdom of God is within us RIGHT NOW. We are his witnesses on earth ruling in His Kingdom, right now!!!
yes sir.
True dat
 
P

popeye

Guest
Popeye,

I was questioning VCO on how he arrived at this being the 24th generation since Jesus ascended.

I was not trying to enter into your and his prior discussion. I am prepared to be shown a valid basis for that belief; but I don't see it yet?

I was not challenging anything either of you said earlier in the thread. I skimmed over most of that discussion because I did not feel led to get into it.
Well shiver me timbers:D:D
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
What about throwin' them cans o' soup?
Steamin crock pot 'o mercy, yoo means da soopermarkit prerappchur tribillayshun! Whut it be, I's shoppin et da soopermarkit, mindin mah own biznez, when ah runs inta Elduh Floyd. Ah sees Floyd 'n jus be wantin ta git mah SpaghettiOs 'n hiii tailit, tellin yoo! 'Ceptin Floyd sees me. He come wit hiz cart, filled wit oatmeal cookie 'n goat milk, sez ta me why ah don be et da Kingdom Hall no mo? Ah tells him I gots King James Bible, wich sez Jesus be God, not da lil Jesus et da Kingdom Hall. Elduh Floyd sez da devil be writin King James Bible ta be foolin Jo-wits. Ah tells Floyd ain't no Jo-wits bak 'n da day King James be writin, mercy! Elduh Floyd sez devil jus clever dat way. Den Floyd git reeel close, ta where ah smells he be ettin Slim Jim, 'n whispurr hiz seekrit dat 144,000 Jo-wits in da Garden 'o Eden. Pert near knock me o'er, not no 144,000 seekrit, but Floyd 'n hiz Slim Jim breathin! It wuz liken ta bein in coma 'n wakin up on bus full 'o peeples in Romania! Anyhoo, Elduh Floyd sez I needs be git sum oatmeal cookie 'n goat milk et da Kingdom Hall roun tabels 'n plastik chairs ettin sanctimonium, 'n be doin sum rousin Saturday nite Watchtower magzeen readin 'n memorizashuns, needs be git rite wit angel Mickie 'n hiz lil brutha, Jesus. Ah tells Elduh Floyd King James Bible better 'n magzeens and don like no goat milk. Floyd gits lil mad, sez he don invites me next week, den, fer no goat milk. Ah tells Floyd dats oookeee, don like no goat milk next week, tooo. Ah haz ta be askin Floyd how he be thinkin I likes milks 'o tin can 'n garbage etin, grizlee goat, have mercy on da herd! Ah sez also dat, iffin he sez dat 50 mo times, I don be worryin 'bout no goat milk or havin ta hear 'bout Mickie 'n no insultin lil Jesus fer whole year! Tellin yooo, it git ugleee 'bout dis exackt time. Dey's dis big 'ol display chicken noodles soup, 'n Elduh Floyd start inta throwin them cans et me, tho he don be hittin nuthin 'cept tha Doritoes dizplay. Tellin yooo, ya don wants Elduh Floyd on no softball teem. I looks down anyhoo, sez feet don fail me now, mercy in da famlee size! I gits out dat soopermarkit, faster 'n Hebrooo roots folk git past da hot dogs. Ah yells bak et Elduh Floyd don like no oatmeal cookie, neether. Dey takes mah SpaghettiOs coopon et da Mini Mart, anyhoo.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Steamin crock pot 'o mercy, yoo means da soopermarkit prerappchur tribillayshun! Whut it be, I's shoppin et da soopermarkit, mindin mah own biznez, when ah runs inta Elduh Floyd. Ah sees Floyd 'n jus be wantin ta git mah SpaghettiOs 'n hiii tailit, tellin yoo! 'Ceptin Floyd sees me. He come wit hiz cart, filled wit oatmeal cookie 'n goat milk, sez ta me why ah don be et da Kingdom Hall no mo? Ah tells him I gots King James Bible, wich sez Jesus be God, not da lil Jesus et da Kingdom Hall. Elduh Floyd sez da devil be writin King James Bible ta be foolin Jo-wits. Ah tells Floyd ain't no Jo-wits bak 'n da day King James be writin, mercy! Elduh Floyd sez devil jus clever dat way. Den Floyd git reeel close, ta where ah smells he be ettin Slim Jim, 'n whispurr hiz seekrit dat 144,000 Jo-wits in da Garden 'o Eden. Pert near knock me o'er, not no 144,000 seekrit, but Floyd 'n hiz Slim Jim breathin! It wuz liken ta bein in coma 'n wakin up on bus full 'o peeples in Romania! Anyhoo, Elduh Floyd sez I needs be git sum oatmeal cookie 'n goat milk et da Kingdom Hall roun tabels 'n plastik chairs ettin sanctimonium, 'n be doin sum rousin Saturday nite Watchtower magzeen readin 'n memorizashuns, needs be git rite wit angel Mickie 'n hiz lil brutha, Jesus. Ah tells Elduh Floyd King James Bible better 'n magzeens and don like no goat milk. Floyd gits lil mad, sez he don invites me next week, den, fer no goat milk. Ah tells Floyd dats oookeee, don like no goat milk next week, tooo. Ah haz ta be askin Floyd how he be thinkin I likes milks 'o tin can 'n garbage etin, grizlee goat, have mercy on da herd! Ah sez also dat, iffin he sez dat 50 mo times, I don be worryin 'bout no goat milk or havin ta hear 'bout Mickie 'n no insultin lil Jesus fer whole year! Tellin yooo, it git ugleee 'bout dis exackt time. Dey's dis big 'ol display chicken noodles soup, 'n Elduh Floyd start inta throwin them cans et me, tho he don be hittin nuthin 'cept tha Doritoes dizplay. Tellin yooo, ya don wants Elduh Floyd on no softball teem. I looks down anyhoo, sez feet don fail me now, mercy in da famlee size! I gits out dat soopermarkit, faster 'n Hebrooo roots folk git past da hot dogs. Ah yells bak et Elduh Floyd don like no oatmeal cookie, neether. Dey takes mah SpaghettiOs coopon et da Mini Mart, anyhoo.
Only you! . . .brings tears ta ma' eyes. . .laughin' dat is. . .dat bees a reel tribalashun, Romania 'n all. . .but chicken soup cans in duh Doritos dun beats all. . .ceptin' dem SpaghettiOs coopons et da Mini Mart part. . .mercy, mercy, mercy. . .on me achin' sides dat is.

Wonerful, wonerfu, wonerful. . .
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Only you! . . .brings tears ta ma' eyes. . .laughin' dat is. . .dat bees a reel tribalashun, Romania 'n all. . .but chicken soup cans in duh Doritos dun beats all. . .ceptin' dem SpaghettiOs coopons et da Mini Mart part. . .mercy, mercy, mercy. . .on me achin' sides dat is.

Wonerful, wonerfu, wonerful. . .
It be pert near funnee on hinesite, but tellin yoo, Elduh Floyd in mah face post Slim Jim almost make me post trib!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Elders could easily translate seniors,presbrytry,olders,patriaarchs ,etc

The key is "evry tribe,tongue,nation.........redeemed by the blood of Jesus from"
These Elders have thrones, indicating a position of Authority, just like the Elders of the Church are a position of Authority.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
t<><

I had no problem finding several examples of such verses. Maybe you should fire your Bible software and get the FREE WORDsearch Basic?


The 24 Elders represent the N.T. Church. Interestingly, if you do the math, we are in the 24th generation since Christ rose from the grave. Could it be that there 1 Elder for each generation? Could someone like Billy Graham be our Elder?


I'm curious. How many years are you counting as a generation in that calculation?
It is no secret that many Pastors continue to teach periodically well after the age 65, especially those who's teaching of the WORD, has been very popular, such as Billy Graham. By the time those influential Bible Teachers of a particular generation have reached 85, most have been called home to the LORD and the few that remain alive, have completely retired from the Pulpit ministry.

2015
- 33 approximate age of Christ at His resurrection
1982 years since Christ rose from the grave

85
x23
1955 years and the 23rd generation of Bible Teachers ended

That leaves us with currently being 27 years into the 24th generation of Influential Bible Teachers.

I do not Teach that as an absolute Biblical Truth, because the BIBLE does not say who the 24 Elders are or how HE chose them. HOWEVER, I find it to be a very interesting possibility.