The curse of the law
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I need your help in understanding Biblically how Israel refusing the laws God told Moses to present to them, which is refusing the covenant, can even be on the radar ("perhaps").
Can you explain it to me in a way that agrees with the NT presentation of the Sinaitic Covenant (Ex 20-23) and the Mosaic laws?
Can you explain it to me in a way that agrees with the NT presentation of the Sinaitic Covenant (Ex 20-23) and the Mosaic laws?
I see the NT presenting the church in the new covenant as fact in
Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15, 12:24.
I understand adoption as sonship, by the new birth into eternal life (life of Holy Spirit/God),
which adoption is not completely fulfilled until the resurrection of our glorified bodies:
Gal 4:4-5 - "But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption (full rights) of sons."
Ro 8:15, 23 - "you are the sons of God. . .and by the Spirit we cry 'Abba, Father.'
The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. . .
we await eagerly for our adoption, the redemption of our bodies."
Eph 1:5 - "Having predestined us to adoption through Jesus Christ" (not through Israel)
Ro 9:4 - "Israel's is the adoption, the divine glory, the covenants, etc."
I don't understand the adoption that is Israel's in Ro 9:4, above, to be adoption into Israel,
nor do I find the NT anywhere presenting new covenant adoption into Israel.
I understand Jer 31:34 to mean the indwelling Holy Spirit himself of the new covenant will be the teacher of the born again, from the least to the greatest, and that knowledge of God will then be from the inside out (by the indwelling Holy Spirit) rather than from the outside in (by the teachers of the law, as it was at the time).
Lk 22:20; 2Co 3:6; Heb 8:6, 9:15, 12:24.
I understand adoption as sonship, by the new birth into eternal life (life of Holy Spirit/God),
which adoption is not completely fulfilled until the resurrection of our glorified bodies:
Gal 4:4-5 - "But when the fullness of time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption (full rights) of sons."
Ro 8:15, 23 - "you are the sons of God. . .and by the Spirit we cry 'Abba, Father.'
The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. . .
we await eagerly for our adoption, the redemption of our bodies."
Eph 1:5 - "Having predestined us to adoption through Jesus Christ" (not through Israel)
Ro 9:4 - "Israel's is the adoption, the divine glory, the covenants, etc."
I don't understand the adoption that is Israel's in Ro 9:4, above, to be adoption into Israel,
nor do I find the NT anywhere presenting new covenant adoption into Israel.
I understand Jer 31:34 to mean the indwelling Holy Spirit himself of the new covenant will be the teacher of the born again, from the least to the greatest, and that knowledge of God will then be from the inside out (by the indwelling Holy Spirit) rather than from the outside in (by the teachers of the law, as it was at the time).
D
The other "doth create much straw".
You have no argument against the scriptures posted there
There never was one Elin, thus all my lovely straw persons.
You stated InSpirit implied what he did not, and from the start anyone can see what you did, trying to provoke him to speak (for more straw to build with failed) then pulled up your straw again to MarcR to ask him according to it so you wouldnt be left alone holding the straw alone as you kept going off of what he never said.
I was just bringing up the reminded.
We never engaged to argue at all because from the beginning I said I couldnt figure out where you saw an error (plain as day). You would come back bear false witness putting words in his mouth and run with those.
To mock the straw while someone desires to strive over putting words in someones mouth (while setting their own stuff on fire) is not mocking the God, or the word of God.
Its calling a lie a lie. I believe His words are true, and that the apostles words stand true whether you agree with them or not.
His post is so tight, it only cause me to wonder why so hot on the pursuit? Why the strife over your own words inserted into his mouth? Unless ofcourse that strife is accompanied by envy?
That is what the scriptures show, and given he has received so many likes (visible to you) and given you can only put words in his mouth to argue with those Gods word seems to be what makes a thing so obvious.
There is seriously something wrong with such an obsession and devotion to appear you made something real out of your own straw, please...
I have known you for a few years, and for me you are great with the brainiacs who think they are so brillient in theiir speech. I had appreciation for you in some of the slime of strifes you chose to engage yourself in. Heres where keeping a pig occupied comes in handy and you did that well as it becomes thousands of pages of stuff you could no longer make out because each of you rend apart the other, and it was pretty unreadable (and the point lost) by the time both were done. So you are good with people who are overly impressed by their intellectual spue (and wisdom) you can speak their own throw up well (and reason with them better). I certainly dont have the time to sit with a dictionary on my lap at their mouths for their every word trying to figure out what the heck they are saying. If its not simple in Jesus Christ, I dont wish to be bothered with it. If it cannot be said simple enough for the common man, its not too important. It certainly does not help the cause of Jesus Christ the Lord.
I was mistaken to think more of you then was warrented, its also quite a dispointment that on a "certain side of things" has become so obvious in perpetuating lies (at the expense of truth) for some "king of" the pathetic (pride hill) status among the others.
There is just no honesty in that.
You have no argument against the scriptures posted there
There never was one Elin, thus all my lovely straw persons.
You stated InSpirit implied what he did not, and from the start anyone can see what you did, trying to provoke him to speak (for more straw to build with failed) then pulled up your straw again to MarcR to ask him according to it so you wouldnt be left alone holding the straw alone as you kept going off of what he never said.
I was just bringing up the reminded.
We never engaged to argue at all because from the beginning I said I couldnt figure out where you saw an error (plain as day). You would come back bear false witness putting words in his mouth and run with those.
To mock the straw while someone desires to strive over putting words in someones mouth (while setting their own stuff on fire) is not mocking the God, or the word of God.
Its calling a lie a lie. I believe His words are true, and that the apostles words stand true whether you agree with them or not.
His post is so tight, it only cause me to wonder why so hot on the pursuit? Why the strife over your own words inserted into his mouth? Unless ofcourse that strife is accompanied by envy?
That is what the scriptures show, and given he has received so many likes (visible to you) and given you can only put words in his mouth to argue with those Gods word seems to be what makes a thing so obvious.
There is seriously something wrong with such an obsession and devotion to appear you made something real out of your own straw, please...
I have known you for a few years, and for me you are great with the brainiacs who think they are so brillient in theiir speech. I had appreciation for you in some of the slime of strifes you chose to engage yourself in. Heres where keeping a pig occupied comes in handy and you did that well as it becomes thousands of pages of stuff you could no longer make out because each of you rend apart the other, and it was pretty unreadable (and the point lost) by the time both were done. So you are good with people who are overly impressed by their intellectual spue (and wisdom) you can speak their own throw up well (and reason with them better). I certainly dont have the time to sit with a dictionary on my lap at their mouths for their every word trying to figure out what the heck they are saying. If its not simple in Jesus Christ, I dont wish to be bothered with it. If it cannot be said simple enough for the common man, its not too important. It certainly does not help the cause of Jesus Christ the Lord.
I was mistaken to think more of you then was warrented, its also quite a dispointment that on a "certain side of things" has become so obvious in perpetuating lies (at the expense of truth) for some "king of" the pathetic (pride hill) status among the others.
There is just no honesty in that.
I've done that with the thread called "what did the Jew receive first?". Blessing and cursing were mentioned in that one, and O Boy! what a fight I got started over that. Especially when it was mentioned that salvation came to the Jews first. Then another fight arose over something like Paul received the relation of the "mystery" first. Anything that insinuates that the Law given to Moses is a good thing for believers in Christ Jesus instigates argument. This law of humans never fails to do that. 
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100311-what-did-jew-receive-first.html?highlight=
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/100311-what-did-jew-receive-first.html?highlight=
Jesus was born of the Jews and ministered only to the Jews, many of whom rejected the salvation which he gave.
if you could get only those who are holy (set apart in christ jesus, completely)
to answer you
would get good answers, edifying truth, and very little if any strife.
as you've seen, you don't have to seek strife - but realize as it happened to JESUS and to the disciples, so too it will happen today all over the world and here.
to answer you
would get good answers, edifying truth, and very little if any strife.
as you've seen, you don't have to seek strife - but realize as it happened to JESUS and to the disciples, so too it will happen today all over the world and here.
as was noted weeks ago by me and other posters. it is still "in the dark" what school of thought or what 'religion' or what 'deception' at the root,
but it
is obvious in most of the posts from that 'school', but they so far have not revealed what 'school' it is ,
as far as i know.
definitely it (the school/religion/root) is not in SCRIPTURE or in JESUS)....
but it
is obvious in most of the posts from that 'school', but they so far have not revealed what 'school' it is ,
as far as i know.
definitely it (the school/religion/root) is not in SCRIPTURE or in JESUS)....
As I've stated twice already, I asked many times if my understanding of the point were correct,
and the choice was made not to inform me, but to leave me in my own understanding of it.
So that understanding is what I effectively addressed. . .which is why there is so much heat
and so little light (translate: no light) in response to it.
and the choice was made not to inform me, but to leave me in my own understanding of it.
So that understanding is what I effectively addressed. . .which is why there is so much heat
and so little light (translate: no light) in response to it.
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I already answered when I said your inquiry and line of questioning is not sincere. You did not come here to seek understanding, but to misrepresent my post, bring accusations, bear false witness and then outright lie about your motives. Now you act like you are truly sincere in seeking understanding from me, whom you accused over and over again? LOL!
I can say without a doubt that your understanding is just that, and what you have tried to accomplish in this thread is not of the Holy Spirit. So yes, I will leave you with your "own understanding."
I can say without a doubt that your understanding is just that, and what you have tried to accomplish in this thread is not of the Holy Spirit. So yes, I will leave you with your "own understanding."
C
10 All those who depend on works of law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not remain in all the things written in the scroll of the Law by doing them.” 11 Moreover, it is evident that by law no one is declared righteous with God, because “the righteous one will live by reason of faith.” 12 Now the Law is not based on faith. Rather, “anyone who does these things will live by means of them.” 13 Christ purchased us, releasing us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse instead of us, because it is written: “Accursed is every man hung upon a stake.” 14 This was so that the blessing of Abraham would come to the nations by means of Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promised spirit through our faith. (Galatians 3:10-14)
I just got here but..what wow!.."You already answered when you said her line of questioning was insincere?" How can you know this , when the scriptures say only God can judge the hearts of man?
"She did not come here to seek understanding?", sorry still not in the wheel house for you to conclude- JUDGEMENT.
If all we can do is to reconcile people was your intent here to have her confess her sin, while committing your own? Don't worry about the spec in your brothers eye, worry about the log in your own scripture comes to mind.
Then, you expand the judgement.."but to misrepresent my post, bring accusations, bear false witness, and then outright lie about your motives"...each one judgement. If we are to reconcile, how would you feel after someone tells you that? Reconciled? corrected, or even rebuked in Godly love, based on the Word of God, and given in love? God says, do not judge lest ye be judged. Discernment is for reconciliation, none of the comments made were discernment, they were judgement.
Then you go on to mock her by saying now you ACT LIKE you are sincere etc etc.. I did not see her accusing you, by the way.She was stating her opinions, and asking questions of you. She doesn't agree I don't believe but this was not the conclusions of your judgements. Then the LOL, comment...was reconciling on the docket then?
You can say without a doubt? So I must conclude you don't agree with the scripture that says only God can judge the minds of Men?....so after more judgement calls I won't rewrite, you become jury by saying you will leave her to her own understandings. Reconciliation to Christ? Is this your dusting of your feet to those in the city that don't receive you? Based on Gods Word and decrees?
Matt. 5:20...For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the Teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 5:22.....But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement......................[Vs.22].."anyone who says you fool! will be in danger of the fire of Hell.
We then also have a tag team affect, for I even feel it and I am not her. That agree with you. We may have differing opinions, but we need to guard our tongues, for words do not leave us without a return of some kind.
"She did not come here to seek understanding?", sorry still not in the wheel house for you to conclude- JUDGEMENT.
If all we can do is to reconcile people was your intent here to have her confess her sin, while committing your own? Don't worry about the spec in your brothers eye, worry about the log in your own scripture comes to mind.
Then, you expand the judgement.."but to misrepresent my post, bring accusations, bear false witness, and then outright lie about your motives"...each one judgement. If we are to reconcile, how would you feel after someone tells you that? Reconciled? corrected, or even rebuked in Godly love, based on the Word of God, and given in love? God says, do not judge lest ye be judged. Discernment is for reconciliation, none of the comments made were discernment, they were judgement.
Then you go on to mock her by saying now you ACT LIKE you are sincere etc etc.. I did not see her accusing you, by the way.She was stating her opinions, and asking questions of you. She doesn't agree I don't believe but this was not the conclusions of your judgements. Then the LOL, comment...was reconciling on the docket then?
You can say without a doubt? So I must conclude you don't agree with the scripture that says only God can judge the minds of Men?....so after more judgement calls I won't rewrite, you become jury by saying you will leave her to her own understandings. Reconciliation to Christ? Is this your dusting of your feet to those in the city that don't receive you? Based on Gods Word and decrees?
Matt. 5:20...For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the Teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Matt. 5:22.....But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement......................[Vs.22].."anyone who says you fool! will be in danger of the fire of Hell.
We then also have a tag team affect, for I even feel it and I am not her. That agree with you. We may have differing opinions, but we need to guard our tongues, for words do not leave us without a return of some kind.
1 John 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Elin,
I did not recognize that question in ISIT's post. If I had seen that I would not have liked the post.
I answered YOUR question at first by saying I didn't see rejection as an option.
When you pressed me to speculate, I obliged you.
I find myself in agreement with you most of the time; so I sought to oblige you.
Monkey in the middle has never been my favorite game, especially when I'm put in the role of the monkey.