The curse of the law

[just-me]

You can see many things in the Old testament. For instance you can see the history of Israel, you can see the promised coming of the Messiah, you can see a shadow of the promises He brings to His believers, however, you will never see the righteousness of God there because the book of Romans say that it comes to us apart from the law ( which in the Greek means Old Testament) Notice it says apart from the law not added to it not mixed together, but apart from the law. Many may argue differently,however many people will also say Lord, Lord did we not cast out demons, and prophesy in your name and He will say depart from me I never knew you.

I think many have been taught to only identify with the curses caused by being disobedience. What about the blessings of being obedient by faith in Christ Jesus?

These blessings are not acquired by the works of the law minus the faith that must come first. We must desire the mind of Christ first because we see the truth in Him. He promises the blessings of giving when we seek and knock. Our works to receive blessings doesn't work. What works is having the very character of Jesus instilled into our heart, soul, and mind, and it becomes His working instead of our works. Things begin to click the right way when the right priorities are established by God's perfection, and all things fall into their proper place according to His will, and onward we go with Him and His yoke!!

As any sincere person who has ever truly fallen in love with another knows, a love relationship flows both ways, otherwise it fails. We are wonderfully made, unlike anything else in creation, to reciprocate with sincerity, and contribute to the love relationship which God started, and “we love him, because He first loved us.” (1 John 4:19) The blessings from God are conditional then, depending on our response to His loving nature.

Deuteronomy 28:1-2
1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:
2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God.

We are blessed if we reject making a god in our own image. We are not to make God Almighty, or His Son Jesus Christ into a god that we prefer. That appears to be the summary and the basis of receiving God's blessings as Deuteronomy 28:14 states.

“And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.”

Taking one verse at a time, I will begin with Deuteronomy 28:3 of listed blessings in the law given to Moses, and present related scriptures of blessing from the entire Word of God. Please contribute with scripture and your thoughts of these blessings listed in Deuteronomy 28:3-13. This is a Bible discussion forum.

“Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.”

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the Lord thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Joshua 1:9 Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Matthew 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[slave]

If we classify sin in respect to God's Word rather than our own, we then can love others as God intended. Until that time, there will always be a matter of opinion that instigates aggravation, antagonism, argument and controversy. It is our obligation to identify who started it, and why, in order to put a stop to it. If there is no edification with consideration, be aware. I try to live by my signature. "Try" with sincerity of intent.

Leviticus 19:17-18
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother (sister) in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.

My issues with you has never been about sins identity. It has been about who has the right to judge it. And we do not have that right. God is the only one that can label it and prosecute it. Now, He has written some of His judgements down of the identity of many, and there are even some based on principle that are not labelled in specifics in scripture. But it is not because they are listed that we as Children of God now graduate to equal Lordship to do His biding in that judgement over men, regardless of the desire to do it for the good of the person. We are heirs with Christ. Not God's ourselves, God has not gifted us with all that He is...He has given us shared partnership to the kingdom thru Christ. I have said this many times...we are only asked by God to reconcile people to God . And we are told not to judge people. It's that simple. Attaching, for their own good...is meaningless. God does all judgements. We need to see ourselves as dead. Nada left, Nicht, never to return, no value of any kind...to understand the way we live now is only thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit day by day moment by Moment. God is now in complete control of every little thing, both big and small. Christ is all, and in all.

My problem has been I see a "thank you God for handing me that now I will serve it to the people mentality. This is not our role. It is "thank you God for what you give me, continually, I pray YOU work thru me to love others into my same Salvation.

 

[just-me]

[SUP]Deuteronomy 28:3-14
3 [/SUP]Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
[SUP]5[/SUP]Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The Lord shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The Lord shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the Lord thy God, and walk in his ways.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

Why have so many been sucked into the falsehood that we have been given the right to make God into our own liking the way we want Him to be? The curses and blessings in relation to the law are not the law itself. They are the results of taking it to heart via the Holy Spirit of understanding or rejecting it. Rejecting it will bring the promises of curses, adhering to it in Spirit will bring promises of blessings.

"And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." John 1:16

 

[just-me]

My issues with you has never been about sins identity. It has been about who has the right to judge it. And we do not have that right. God is the only one that can label it and prosecute it. Now, He has written some of His judgements down of the identity of many, and there are even some based on principle that are not labelled in specifics in scripture. But it is not because they are listed that we as Children of God now graduate to equal Lordship to do His biding in that judgement over men, regardless of the desire to do it for the good of the person. We are heirs with Christ. Not God's ourselves, God has not gifted us with all that He is...He has given us shared partnership to the kingdom thru Christ. I have said this many times...we are only asked by God to reconcile people to God . And we are told not to judge people. It's that simple. Attaching, for their own good...is meaningless. God does all judgements. We need to see ourselves as dead. Nada left, Nicht, never to return, no value of any kind...to understand the way we live now is only thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit day by day moment by Moment. God is now in complete control of every little thing, both big and small. Christ is all, and in all.

My problem has been I see a "thank you God for handing me that now I will serve it to the people mentality. This is not our role. It is "thank you God for what you give me, continually, I pray YOU work thru me to love others into my same Salvation.

God would not be graceful if He didn't give us warning and the capability to identify. We are to love Him with our mind also. All things come through Him, not us. I could see your point if we had not been informed.

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." John 7:24

We are commanded by Christ to discern, but not to condemn. Speaking of love, have you considered the finite instructions? Leviticus 19, and Deuteronomy 6 to begin.

 

[Jeff_56]

ALL the people who say "don't judge me"

ALL of them, don't know GOD'S WORD.

they've never understood PROVERBS even, if they ever read it.

nor MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE or JOHN.

this doesn't mean that everyone who judges you is right, no. in fact, IF you seek to do what is right, almost everyone
will judge you and persecute you for trying to do what JESUS says to do, what is right by GOD'S WORD.

but it won't matter once you are abiding in JESUS. you will love the judgment then. (you really , really,

have to see what GOD'S WORD says to understand this.... so don't expect to understand it too quick)....

even GOD'S JUDGMENT is LOVED BY GOD'S PEOPLE, because HIS JUDGMENT is PERFECT, PERFECTING THE SOUL.....

now, there's a lot here , harder to understand just because it's in english without the more accurate meanings

from Hebrew (or greek either).... so don't worry too much or at all ---- turn everything, your whole life

over to JESUS and let HIM HANDLE IT - guide you, teach you, lead you, shepherd you, discipline you, warn you,
encourage you, edify you and uphold you with the STRENGTH OF HIS RIGHT HAND and

teach you wisdom and understanding according to HIS PURPOSE in UNION WITH THE FATHER AS ONE.

(if you're in UNION WITH THE FATHER AS ONE, you already understand all this perfectly, and have no

need for anyone to teach you)

 

[Elin]

If we classify sin in respect to God's Word rather than our own, we then can love others as God intended. Until that time,
there will always be a matter of opinion that instigates aggravation, antagonism,
argument and controversy.
It is our obligation to identify who started it, and why, in order to put a stop to it.

That's a little confusing. . .for three reasons:

1) It is subjective, not objective.

If argument and controversy are to have a stop put to them, does not your signature allow you
to engage in precisely what you say is to be stopped (argument and controversy)?

Would that not be "the end justifying the means" on your part?

And if "the end justifies the means" for you, allowing you to respond with "argument and controversy,"
why would it not also apply to the "argument and controversy" of the one who is labeled "the one who started it"?

When the measure of "argument and controversy" is subjective rather than objective, the "instigator of argument and controversy" is simply the one who disagrees with your opinion.

For you do not allow that your opinion could be wrong and, therefore, is actually the true instigator of "argument and controversy."

2) It assumes, a priori, one's own opinion is right and the other's opinion is wrong--based on no objective standard, only on one's own subjective opinion--with a thinly-veiled effort to disallow all objective evaluation thereof by objecting to "argument and controversy."

3) The NT presents ample "argument and controversy" for the sake of the truth.

What is missing in this all-too-subjective rationale is allowing the same right of "argument and controversy" to those who see your error, as you claim for yourself in your signature.

If there is no edification with consideration, be aware. I try to live by my signature. "Try" with sincerity of intent.

However, with only a subjective standard, edification is in the eye of the beholder only.

 

[just-me]

That's a little confusing. . .for three reasons:

1) It is subjective, not objective.

If argument and controversy are to have a stop put to them, does not your signature allow you
to engage in precisely what you say is to be stopped (argument and controversy)?

Would that not be "the end justifying the means" on your part?

And if "the end justifies the means" for you, allowing you to respond with "argument and controversy,"
why would it not also apply to the "argument and controversy" of the one who is labeled "the one who started it"?

When the measure of "argument and controversy" is subjective rather than objective, the "instigator of argument and controversy" is simply the one who disagrees with your opinion.

For you do not allow that your opinion could be wrong and, therefore, is actually the true instigator of "argument and controversy."

2) It assumes, a priori, one's own opinion is right and the other's opinion is wrong--based on no objective standard, only on one's own subjective opinion--with a thinly-veiled effort to disallow all objective evaluation thereof by objecting to "argument and controversy."

3) The NT presents ample "argument and controversy" for the sake of the truth.

What is missing in this all-too-subjective rationale is allowing the same right of "argument and controversy" to those who see your error, as you claim for yourself in your signature.


However, with only a subjective standard, edification is in the eye of the beholder only.

Opinions are numerous. Truth is objective based on fact, but not by ones own opinion of subjectiveness. Aren't we sounding intelligent though. Could this be a curse? LOL

 

[Elin]

ALL the people who say "don't judge me"

ALL of them, don't know GOD'S WORD.

they've never understood PROVERBS even, if they ever read it.

nor MATTHEW, MARK, LUKE or JOHN.

this doesn't mean that everyone who judges you is right, no. in fact, IF you seek to do what is right, almost everyone
will judge you and persecute you for trying to do what JESUS says to do, what is right by GOD'S WORD.

but it won't matter once you are abiding in JESUS. you will love the judgment then. (you really , really,

have to see what GOD'S WORD says to understand this.... so don't expect to understand it too quick)....

even GOD'S JUDGMENT is LOVED BY GOD'S PEOPLE, because HIS JUDGMENT is PERFECT, PERFECTING THE SOUL.....

now, there's a lot here , harder to understand just because
it's in english without the more accurate meanings from Hebrew (or greek either)....
so don't worry too much or at all ----

turn everything, your whole life over to JESUS and let HIM HANDLE IT -
guide you, teach you, lead you, shepherd you, discipline you, warn you, encourage you, edify you and uphold you with the STRENGTH OF HIS RIGHT HAND and

teach you wisdom and understanding according to HIS PURPOSE in UNION WITH THE FATHER AS ONE.

Keeping in mind two things:

1) It is Hebrew scholars who have translated the OT of many of the English translations,
as well as Greek scholars who have translated the NT in them, and

2) Jesus does not teach us in some vacuum, but
Jesus teaches us in the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
and if our wisdom and understanding is not in agreement with the NT, it is not from Jesus.

 

[just-me]

Philosofacts
​

Before you give someone a piece of your mind, make sure you can spare it.

Wisdom is knowing when to speak your mind and when to mind your speech.

To get maximum attention, it’s hard to beat a good mistake.

The best way to predict the future is to help create it.

The "curse of the law" comes after the fact of breaking it.

 

[Grandpa]

I think many have been taught to only identify with the curses caused by being disobedience. What about the blessings of being obedient by faith in Christ Jesus?

The blessings are in Christ. Not in your obedience or faith.

So we should always be looking to Christ. Never back to the Law. Because the Law doesn't show us our blessing. It only shows us what could be our blessing if we were obedient.

The Holy Spirit should have showed you that you aren't obedient. The Holy Spirit should have showed you your need for Christ.

If you ever went back to looking at the law you should have found out right away you will never stop needing your Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Holy Spirit teaches us that if we go back to the Law to look for our blessing we have fallen from the Grace of Christ.

 

[jamie26301]

Attaching, for their own good...is meaningless. God does all judgements. We need to see ourselves as dead. Nada left, Nicht, never to return, no value of any kind...to understand the way we live now is only thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit day by day moment by Moment. God is now in complete control of every little thing, both big and small. Christ is all, and in all.

My problem has been I see a "thank you God for handing me that now I will serve it to the people mentality. This is not our role. It is "thank you God for what you give me, continually, I pray YOU work thru me to love others into my same Salvation.

I think the thin line we tread is between when it's not our place to judge, and when to call people to accountability. When calling to accountability means harassing someone, or marginalizing them, or accusing them of a corrupt heart/motive (different from accusing them of a wrong), then I think that is calling out wrong AND punishing it, which is not our place, as you said.

To approach someone who is spreading rumors about someone, or some other sin hurting a member of the Body, is something we should do - but to execute judgement, which would then be to denounce them, or reject them... that's different. So far as violent crimes, or abuse, let the judge handle that - the solider doesn't bear the sword in vain. But little dissensions that is not directly harmful in such a way to require secular punishment, should be handled delicately, imo.

 

[just-me]

The blessings are in Christ. Not in your obedience or faith.

So we should always be looking to Christ. Never back to the Law. Because the Law doesn't show us our blessing. It only shows us what could be our blessing if we were obedient.

The Holy Spirit should have showed you that you aren't obedient. The Holy Spirit should have showed you your need for Christ.

If you ever went back to looking at the law you should have found out right away you will never stop needing your Saviour, Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Holy Spirit teaches us that if we go back to the Law to look for our blessing we have fallen from the Grace of Christ.

Then we also shouldn't be looking at the curse of the law if we are not going to see the blessings. Why are we so negative in that respect?

If we shouldn't be instructed by the law's blessings why in the world are we talking and concentrating on its after effects such as defining the law as a curse? Both curses and blessings are after the fact, not the fact. The law came first with curses, and blessings. If in Christ we define the curse, why not also define the blessings and neglect the curses the same as we do God's law? If we acknowledge the one as positive in Christ, why talk about the opposite without Christ? That makes little sense. Blessings are defined in the law and so are cursings. If we neglect those things as we do the law, we are also neglecting the definitions of blessings by the rejection of the law.

 

[Elin]

It is our obligation to identify who started it, and why, in order
to put a stop to it.

That's a little confusing. . .for three reasons:

1) It is subjective, not objective.

If argument and controversy are to have a stop put to them, does not your signature allow you to engage in precisely what you say is to be stopped (argument and controversy)?

Would that not be "the end justifying the means" on your part?

And if "the end justifies the means" for you, allowing you to respond with "argument and controversy,"
why would it not also apply to the "argument and controversy" of the one who is labeled "the one who started it"?

When the measure of "argument and controversy" is subjective rather than objective, the "instigator of argument and controversy" is simply the one who disagrees with your opinion.

For you do not allow that your opinion could be wrong and, therefore, is actually the true instigator of "argument and controversy."

2) It assumes, a priori, one's own opinion is right and the other's opinion is wrong--based on no objective standard, only on one's own subjective opinion--with a thinly-veiled effort to disallow all objective evaluation thereof by objecting to "argument and controversy."

3) The NT presents ample "argument and controversy" for the sake of the truth.

What is missing in this all-too-subjective rationale is allowing the same right of "argument and controversy" to those who see your error, as you claim for yourself in your signature.

If there is no edification with consideration, be aware.
I try to live by my signature. "Try" with sincerity of intent.

However, with only a subjective standard, edification is in the eye of the beholder only.

Your signature below allows for what you condemn above (argument and controversy):

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them. Romans 16:17

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 1:10

A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Titus 3:10"

Opinions are numerous. Truth is objective based on fact, but not by ones own opinion of subjectiveness.

Yes, empirical truth is based on fact, but God's truth is based in his word written,
which is the objective, not subjective, standard by which Biblical opinions must be measured.

And Aren't we sounding intelligent though. Could this be a curse? LOL

Now, that we sound intelligent would definitely be in the eye of the beholder. . .

 

[Elin]

Great movie!!!

But remember, its not a failure to communicate, its, failure to communicate. No a.

"What we've got here is failure to communicate."

I stand corrected!

Yes, it's one of my favorites.

Couldn't get enough or Paul Newman when I was younger.

 

[Elin]

My issues with you has never been about sins identity. It has been about
who has the right to judge it. And
we do not have that right. God is the only one that can label it and prosecute it. Now, He has written some of His judgements down of the identity of many, and there are even some based on principle that are not labelled in specifics in scripture. But it is not because they are listed that we as Children of God now graduate to equal Lordship to do His biding in that judgement over men, regardless of the desire to do it for the good of the person. We are heirs with Christ. Not God's ourselves, God has not gifted us with all that He is...He has given us shared partnership to the kingdom thru Christ. I have said this many times...
we are only asked by God to reconcile people to God . And we are told not to judge people. It's that simple. Attaching, for their own good...is meaningless.
God does all judgements. We need to see ourselves as dead. Nada left, Nicht, never to return, no value of any kind...to understand the way we live now is only thru the guidance of the Holy Spirit day by day moment by Moment. God is now in complete control of every little thing, both big and small. Christ is all, and in all.

So you would say only the apostles had authority to judge sin (Gal 1:9)?

Or are you referring to condemning someone for sin specifically and personally?

My problem has been I see a "thank you God for handing me that now I will serve it to the people mentality. This is not our role. It is "thank you God for what you give me, continually, I pray YOU work thru me to love others into my same Salvation.

Yeah, I just assume they are immature in "the faith". . .

 

[Utah]

I stand corrected!

Yes, it's one of my favorites.

Couldn't get enough or Paul Newman when I was younger.

I made the same mistake last year so I'm indebted to pass the wisdom forward.

 

[just-me]

Yes, empirical truth is based on fact, but God's truth is based in his word written,
which is the objective, not subjective, standard by which Biblical opinions must be measured.


Now, that we sound intelligent would definitely be in the eye of the beholder. . .

I agree with the beholder thing. Just like beauty, but that's my subjective opinion about what I see before I know what's behind the outside appearance. LOL

I agreed in part with you, but did I misunderstand that you are insinuating that God's word is not based on fact yet objective? Why submit past tense opinionized subjective logic into the equation?

Our faith in built on experiences if empirical truth. How can we believe the miracles of Christ without it? How can we know salvation without it?

 

[JesusIsAll]

I made the same mistake last year so I'm indebted to pass the wisdom forward.

Was thinking of that line the other day, though haven't seen that movie since longer than I can remember. It was one of those threads that brought it on, was thinking that quote would be a good banner for forums, maybe below it, in a smaller font, or a login prompt,

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."​

 

[Elin]

Yes, empirical truth is based on fact, but God's truth is based in his word written,

which is the objective, not subjective, standard by which Biblical opinions must be measured.

I agreed in part with you, but did I misunderstand that you are insinuating that
God's word is not based on fact yet objective? Why submit past tense opinionized subjective logic into the equation?

A couple of things:

I said God's word is the objective standard of measurement, not that God's word itself is objective.

God's word is not based on empirical facts, what God presents in his word are the facts.

Our faith in built on experiences if empirical truth.

How can we believe the miracles of Christ without it? How can we know salvation without it?

I have no empirical knowledge that would cause me to believe the miracles.
I believe them because the word of God presents them.

I have no empirical knowledge that would cause me to know salvation (forgiveness of sin--Lk 1:77).
I know that through God's word and the Holy Spirit bearing witness with my spirit that I am a child of God.

 

[Elin]

"What we've got here is failure to communicate."

Was thinking of that line the other day, though haven't seen that movie since longer than I can remember. It was one of those threads that brought it on, was thinking
that quote would be a good banner for forums,
maybe below it, in a smaller font, or a login prompt,

"Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."​

Ur dub'lin me over again! . . .

Yu musta' got mah share o' da quick-wittedness. . .'cause I just ain't gots dat neet turn o' speech thang.