Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,"

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

You miss the reason WHY they received the Holy Spirit first. Peter NEVER in that passage says that baptism WAS NOT NEEDED NOR was it to be FORBIDDEN to the Gentiles WITHOUT circumcision. Circumcision was the sign that one was a PART of the old covenant. Remember Peter is an Israelite.

Acts 10

[SUP]44 [/SUP]While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. [SUP]45[/SUP]The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. [SUP]46 [/SUP]For they heard them speaking in tongues[SUP][b][/SUP] and praising God.

Then Peter said, [SUP]47 [/SUP]“Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” [SUP]48 [/SUP]So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.



No where in that passage does Peter dismiss BAPTISM as NOT BEING NEEDED.

1. The holy spirit was given before. that proves it beyond any doubt.
2. I never said no one should be baptized. I said it is not a work which earns one salvation.
3. Again, Paul said batism is not a part of the gospel (I was sent to give the gospel, not baptise) if baptism o\is part of the gospel (means to salvation) then Paul made a huge error and lied.

why do people want to replace the baptism of God (acts 1, acts 10 confirmed by acts 11, col 2, titus 3, 1 cor 6, 1 cor 12, rom 6, ) with the baptism of man? That is blasphemy of the worse type!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

It is a valid question. It may be a question you don't like but it's still a valid question. Does God require obedience to Him to be saved?

no it is not a valid question. because scripture states emphatically that NO ONE can be obedient UNTIL THEY GET SAVED. Eph 2: 8 -10 makes it clear. salvation comes first, obedience follows.

you have people getting saved AFTER obedience, which is adding works. thus salvation is not of faith, but it is of works.

 

[notuptome]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Yes, righteousness is no longer by the law and for the Gentile, it never was but this in no way negates the place or the importance that God has placed on baptism in the scripture. You are absolutely correct that acts of righteousness does not save us. This is a fundamental truth. What Paul tells us in Titus 3:5 is that God "saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit." But, in this he is not negating out obligation the works of righteousness. He is only confirming that it is not the works themselves by which we are saved.

Just a tiny bit of religious double talk. You can do no good works apart from Christ. The only obedience is to obey Christ when He says come unto Me.

As a new creature in Christ I do works which are now good because Christ is in me. I receive water baptism after I have been redeemed by grace through faith. The Holy Spirit is given to me the instant I believe and receive Christ. That Holy Spirit baptism is the baptism that saves because it takes me dead in trespasses and sin and quickens me unto Christ.

My works and my obedience change because I am a new creature in Christ. I receive water to testify to the world that by faith I have been buried in Christ and risen in the Holy Spirit unto new life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SarahM777]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

1. The holy spirit was given before. that proves it beyond any doubt.
2. I never said no one should be baptized. I said it is not a work which earns one salvation.
3. Again, Paul said batism is not a part of the gospel (I was sent to give the gospel, not baptise) if baptism o\is part of the gospel (means to salvation) then Paul made a huge error and lied.

why do people want to replace the baptism of God (acts 1, acts 10 confirmed by acts 11, col 2, titus 3, 1 cor 6, 1 cor 12, rom 6, ) with the baptism of man? That is blasphemy of the worse type!

So then are you saying God can not use looking at a snake to heal,God can not use blood being poured on the mercy seat to cover sin,God can not use spit and mud to heal,etc etc etc? What is the water in baptism that we are being BAPTIZED into?
Did Jesus shed BOTH BLOOD and WATER on the cross? Can God use plain H2O as a PICTURE of Jesus death and wash us in Jesus SHED WATER?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

So then are you saying God can not use looking at a snake to heal,God can not use blood being poured on the mercy seat to cover sin,God can not use spit and mud to heal,etc etc etc? What is the water in baptism that we are being BAPTIZED into?

lol. non of these are works. your really did not go there did you.

When I call out to God to save me, who do you thinking I am looking at? The serpant on the cross.

who poured the blood on the mercy seat? did I do that? Your? Your preist? no it was JESUS.

And God can spit mud and heal me. But again this is Gods work. not mine, not done by men.

What is water? it is like the waters of the flood a symbol of what truly saves us, truely cleans us, Truly circumcises us (not by the hands of men, but by God)

Did Jesus shed BOTH BLOOD and WATER on the cross? Can God use plain H2O as a PICTURE of Jesus death and wash us in Jesus SHED WATER?

No. Because the bible does not say he washes us by water.

He says we are cleaned by the word (John 15:3 with eph 5: 26
He says we are cleansed by the hand of God (col 2)
He said it was the Holy Spirit who cleans us (1 Cor 6:11 and titus 3: 5)

but hey, again, if you want to replace this work of God with the work of men. all the power to you.

 

[SarahM777]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

[/COLOR]lol. non of these are works. your really did not go there did you.

When I call out to God to save me, who do you thinking I am looking at? The serpant on the cross.

who poured the blood on the mercy seat? did I do that? Your? Your preist? no it was JESUS.

And God can spit mud and heal me. But again this is Gods work. not mine, not done by men.

What is water? it is like the waters of the flood a symbol of what truly saves us, truely cleans us, Truly circumcises us (not by the hands of men, but by God)


No. Because the bible does not say he washes us by water.

He says we are cleaned by the word (John 15:3 with eph 5: 26
He says we are cleansed by the hand of God (col 2)
He said it was the Holy Spirit who cleans us (1 Cor 6:11 and titus 3: 5)

but hey, again, if you want to replace this work of God with the work of men. all the power to you.

So are you saying Paul LIED when he said this

Acts 22

[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

Ephesians 5

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [SUP]26 [/SUP]to make her holy, cleansing[SUP][b][/SUP] her by the washing with water through the word,[SUP]27 [/SUP]and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Why is it so hard to believe that God washes our sins away when we step out in faith and are baptized in Jesus name?

 

[SarahM777]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

[/COLOR]lol. non of these are works. your really did not go there did you.

Please explain how being baptized in water for the washing away of our sins is ANY DIFFERENT? In every one of those God told them to DO,they believed and DID,then God acted ONCE they stepped out in faith. Not once in any of those things did God do UNTIL they did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

So are you saying Paul LIED when he said this

Acts 22

[SUP]14 [/SUP]“Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’

Ephesians 5

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her [SUP]26 [/SUP]to make her holy, cleansing[SUP][b][/SUP] her by the washing with water through the word,[SUP]27 [/SUP]and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.

Why is it so hard to believe that God washes our sins away when we step out in faith and are baptized in Jesus name?

No. I am saying Your misinterpreting what is said.

You did not read anything I posted did you?

John 13: 8..jesus said, IF I DO NOT WASH YOU, you have no part with me..

John 13 : 10.. Jesus said to him, He who is washed needs only to wash his feet ( 1 john 1:9) But is COMPLETELY CLEAN, but not all of you ( judas iscariout)

john 15: 3 You are already clean from the word which I have spoken to you

eph 5: 26 : that He might sanctify and cleanse her (the Church) with the washing of water by the word,

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in THE WORKING OF GOD, who raised Him from the dead.

1 Cor 6: 11 - But YOU WERE WASHED, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD

Titus 3 :5. Not by works of rightiosness which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us through the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Nothing in here about being dunked in water by a man, who needs saved himself and is no more qualified to cleans us of our sin than the high priest was qualified to atone for the sin of the people of Israel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God it is the word of God which cleanses us, not some man at some baptismal.

But hey, if you want to earn salvation. feel free. You better be perfect though, and do everything God says and never sin again. or you will be lost. because you have rejected grace and mercy of God and his work and replaced it by your own works.

 

[MarcR]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Since εἰς is a preposition that inherently demands motion as opposed to ἐν which is always stationary it is then a directional pronoun. The question is then which direction is inherently connected with this preposition. The motion is always one that is carried forward. I have never found any preposition in NT Greek that is every translated in such a way that its motion is opposite that of its inherent meaning. Yet, this is what many try to do with εἰς in this verse. My question is "WHY?" If we insist that forgiveness of sin precedes baptism in this verse then the preposition that connects both remission of sin and baptism will have to be completely ignored because changing its directional function is grammatically impossible. The direction of the preposition in this verse places baptism before the remission of sin and there is simply no way to get around this grammatical construction. Baptism then is represented by the grammar as the causal agent and the forgiveness of sin is represented as resultant, not the other way around.

After studying my Greek lexicons, my concordance, and Dana & Mantly's Greek Grammar; I am persuaded that εἰς is used only with directional verbs; but I am not persuaded that the direction must always be forward.
Moreover I am not persuaded that acknowledgement as a foundation for continuation is not forwasd.

As a result of my study, I stand by my original post. I usually find us in agreement on most issues; but here I must differ. I figure that since Robertson agrees with me I am in good company. Kittle also seems to be in agreement; and Thayer; though we seem to have differing views on what they are saying.

 

[notuptome]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Please explain how being baptized in water for the washing away of our sins is ANY DIFFERENT? In every one of those God told them to DO,they believed and DID,then God acted ONCE they stepped out in faith. Not once in any of those things did God do UNTIL they did.

How does something physical remedy something that is spiritual? Salvation is Spiritual not physical. The Holy Spirit acts through the word of God to bring conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment. Water baptism is only for those who have first been born again by the power of the Holy Spirit and are quickened unto eternal life.

Grace is not physical but Spiritual and grace can only be imputed by God and received by faith. The seal set upon the heart of the believer is not visible on the outside but there is an internal witness of its presence.

You may receive a baptismal certificate when you go in the water but that will perish with the rest of the elements on the earth. The seal of the Holy Spirit is eternal.

The problem here is not with what the scriptures teach but how we endeavor to impress upon them the things we want them to say. All of our English translations of the bible are weak in that they do not distinguish from the Greek which word is being used for baptism. We must use context and the original word to know if we are looking at water or Holy Spirit in the passages. Failure to do so will not result in a proper understanding to the scripture.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[oldhermit]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

After studying my Greek lexicons, my concordance, and Dana & Mantly's Greek Grammar; I am persuaded that εἰς is used only with directional verbs; but I am not persuaded that the direction must always be forward.
Moreover I am not persuaded that acknowledgement as a foundation for continuation is not forwasd.

As a result of my study, I stand by my original post. I usually find us in agreement on most issues; but here I must differ. I figure that since Robertson agrees with me I am in good company. Kittle also seems to be in agreement; and Thayer; though we seem to have differing views on what they are saying.

Well, Marc, we may not agree on this point but I have enjoyed our conversation.

 

[SarahM777]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

No. I am saying Your misinterpreting what is said.

You did not read anything I posted did you?

John 13: 8..jesus said, IF I DO NOT WASH YOU, you have no part with me..

John 13 : 10.. Jesus said to him, He who is washed needs only to wash his feet ( 1 john 1:9) But is COMPLETELY CLEAN, but not all of you ( judas iscariout)

john 15: 3 You are already clean from the word which I have spoken to you

eph 5: 26 : that He might sanctify and cleanse her (the Church) with the washing of water by the word,

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in THE WORKING OF GOD, who raised Him from the dead.

1 Cor 6: 11 - But YOU WERE WASHED, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD

Titus 3 :5. Not by works of rightiosness which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us through the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit

Nothing in here about being dunked in water by a man, who needs saved himself and is no more qualified to cleans us of our sin than the high priest was qualified to atone for the sin of the people of Israel.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God it is the word of God which cleanses us, not some man at some baptismal.

But hey, if you want to earn salvation. feel free. You better be perfect though, and do everything God says and never sin again. or you will be lost. because you have rejected grace and mercy of God and his work and replaced it by your own works.

I did read what you,I disagree with what you say. The problem that you have is that you EQUATE OBEDIENCE to what God told us to do WITH SAVING ONES SELF. Why do you have a problem with God saying He does when we do out of faith? If it was just a man made thing then WHY did the disciples make such a point of BAPTIZING? If it NOTHING but a DEAD RITUAL what was the point of EVEN doing it? Why would Jesus EVER tell them to baptize if God DOES NOTHING in it at all? Because that is what you bring it down to,a DEAD,LIFELESS,WORTHLESS Ritual that DOES NOTHING. Really? Does that make any sense whatsoever?

And if it a DEAD,LIFELESS,USELESS RITUAL why did you even get baptized? And if it was just to go before the public to annouce that you are saying you are a Christian,wouldn't there a better way then using all that water in a desert,where water is in short to begin with?

 

[mailmandan]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Would you mind if we saved this text to the last because there are other issues in this text that are going to pull us away from the immediate focus. Please do not think I am trying to avoid the text. I hope you know me better than that. I do look forward to looking at this text but there are a number of other passages I would like to look at before we get to Acts 10 if you would not mind.

That's fine. You can begin wherever you like then.

But what was the SIGN GIVEN FOR in Acts 10? Wasn't it a SIGN for Peter to see that the Gentiles were being grafted into the body of believers?

It was to show that God has accepted the Gentiles into the body of Christ and this happened BEFORE water baptism. In Acts 10:47, Peter said "Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who HAVE received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?" The question was asked because certain Jews may have had trouble accepting the fact that God had accepted the Gentiles along with the Jews and proved it by demonstrating that they were already saved and have been accepted into the body of Christ by giving them the Holy Spirit.

The Israelites ALREADY knew what the washings were for. (Under the Mosaic law people were cleansed by BOTH BLOOD AND WATER) They were NOT CLEANSED by BLOOD alone or by WATER alone but by BOTH.

Ritual purification ceremonies in the OT were designed to lead to ceremonial cleanness only, not to moral and spiritual purity and thus to salvation. Right after we read about water baptism in verses 22-24, in John 3:25, we read - An argument developed between some of John's disciples and a certain Jew over the matter of ceremonial washing. Baptism is the emblem of the washing away of sins by the death of Christ. So baptism does not wash away sins literally, but ceremonially, (plain ordinary H20 has no power to literally wash away sins) pointing to the death of Christ by which sins are actually washed away.

The cleansing by BLOOD and WATER was a TYPE AND SHADOW of WHAT? Jesus death. John clearly says that when the soldier pierced His side with the spear out flowed BLOOD AND WATER. John also again ties in blood,water and the Spirit as the three that testify.

1 John 5

1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.
2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6 This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7 For there are three that testify:
8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.
9 We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.
10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Water symbolizes Jesus' baptism and blood symbolizes His death. These are mentioned because Jesus' ministry began at His baptism and ended at His death. Water and blood constitute external, objective witness to who Jesus Christ is. John writes to show that God has given testimony to the deity of Jesus through both His baptism and His sacrificial death.

Did God tell the Israelites that in order for their sins to be COVERED that a lamb had to be sacrificed and the blood had to be sprinkled on the mercy seat? Did they not in FAITH have to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat, and were their covered BEFORE or AFTER they did so?

Did ALL of the Israelites sacrifice the lamb? Who sprinkled the blood on the mercy seat? Who is our High priest now? Hebrews 10:1 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4 because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. Water baptism is not the same as a blood sacrifice and we are saved through faith BEFORE water baptism and not after (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17; 26:18; Ephesians 2:8,9).

Can God now tell us to do the same and do so in like manner? Step out in FAITH and THEN He does when we obey out of faith? Why is baptism now REMOVED as an an act of faith?

Water baptism is an act of faith, done "out of" faith, just as all good works are, but these acts are produced "out of" faith that is already established in Christ, but is not faith itself. Did God say that we are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8) or by an act of faith (a work) that we accomplish after faith is established? Noah stepped out in faith when he built the ark, but we see that Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Using your logic, we would have to say that Noah did not find grace until "after" he built the ark. In Genesis 15:6/Romans 4:2-3, we read that Abraham believed God and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness. Many years later, in Genesis 22, we see that Abraham stepped out in faith when he set out to sacrifice his only Son Isaac, yet his faith was already established and accounted to him for righteousness BEFORE he did this work. Using your logic, we would have to say that Abraham's faith was not accounted to him for righteousness until "after" he set out to sacrifice Isaac. The Bible says that we are saved through faith in Christ and not by works which follow faith. Notice that Paul did not say that we are saved by grace through faith and baptism in Ephesians 2:8 or that we are justified by faith and baptism in Romans 5:2. Faith is not baptism and faith precedes baptism and we are saved through faith. It's just that simple.

 

[mailmandan]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Acknowledgement that remission had occurred (from repentence) as a bases for baptism as the next step.

Amen! In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water for (eis) repentance." Is this baptism for "in order to obtain" repentance or for "in regards to/on the basis of" repentance? Baptism is done "in regards to/on the basis of" the remission of sins that has been received through repentance. Baptized "in order to obtain" repentance makes no sense whatsoever. We don't baptize those who have not repented in order for them to obtain repentance.

 

[phil112]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

...............Because that is what you bring it down to,a DEAD,LIFELESS,WORTHLESS Ritual that DOES NOTHING. Really? Does that make any sense whatsoever?

And if it a DEAD,LIFELESS,USELESS RITUAL why did you even get baptized? And if it was just to go before the public to annouce that you are saying you are a Christian,wouldn't there a better way then using all that water in a desert,where water is in short to begin with?

Sarah it is no more, no less, a dead worthless ritual than foot washing. Tell me, does that save your soul? Did Christ tell you to do it just to be talking? Of course not. Physical acts by man have no soul saving power. Never have, never will.

As for whether or not there is a better way, God can answer that with more authority than EG, don't you think?
His ways are not our ways. He had a reason and it is clear if one is open to scripture.

 

[SarahM777]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

Water symbolizes Jesus' baptism and blood symbolizes His death. These are mentioned because Jesus' ministry began at His baptism and ended at His death. Water and blood constitute external, objective witness to who Jesus Christ is. John writes to show that God has given testimony to the deity of Jesus through both His baptism and His sacrificial death.

I disagree,water ALSO was present in Jesus death. John makes that point very clear.

John 19

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. [SUP]32 [/SUP]The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. [SUP]36 [/SUP]These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]37 [/SUP]and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”[SUP][d][/SUP]

The water in WATER baptism is a PICTURE of being placed UNDER Jesus shed WATER. It is Jesus SHED WATER that washes our sins away in water baptism. The water REPRESENTS the water Jesus shed on the cross and we are SUBMITTING to being washed under His shed water.

 

[mailmandan]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

I disagree,water ALSO was present in Jesus death. John makes that point very clear.

John 19

[SUP]31 [/SUP]Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down. [SUP]32 [/SUP]The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. [SUP]34 [/SUP]Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. [SUP]35 [/SUP]The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. [SUP]36 [/SUP]These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]37 [/SUP]and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.”[SUP][d][/SUP]

The water in WATER baptism is a PICTURE of being placed UNDER Jesus shed WATER. It is Jesus SHED WATER that washes our sins away in water baptism. The water REPRESENTS the water Jesus shed on the cross and we are SUBMITTING to being washed under His shed water.

You are turning water baptism into mystical water. What "water" was Jesus talking about in John 4:10 and John 4:14? Jesus connects this LIVING WATER with everlasting life and He was not talking about water baptism.

 

[SarahM777]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

You are turning water baptism into mystical water. What "water" was Jesus talking about in John 4:10 and John 4:14? Jesus connects this LIVING WATER with everlasting life and He was not talking about water baptism.

You're not getting it.

 

[oldhermit]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

That's fine. You can begin wherever you like then.

You mentioned Acts 3:17 which is the next conversion example in Acts so perhaps it would be good to simply follow the trail of conversions through the book of Acts and make some comparisons.

In chapter two there were two conditions were laid down for the the forgiveness of sin and receiving the Holy Spirit (whether you agree with this at this point is really not necessary). These were repentance and baptism. In Chapter three Peter is speaking to the Jews in Solomon’s Portico and tells them "Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out." Since both instructions do not contain the same pattern for the removal of sins and the receiving of the Holy Spirit, how are we to determine which of these two passages represent the correct pattern (personally I do not like the word pattern here but I cannot think of a better way to say this at this point). We are going to see this throughout the book of Acts so we need to consider how we are to create a synthesis between these separate accounts.

 

[mailmandan]

Re: Since Acts 2:38 teaches that the baptism commanded is "for the remission of sins,

You're not getting it.

What am I not getting? Does water baptism represent/picture/symbolize the water that cleanses us on the inside or does it literally cleanse on the inside?