When does the rapture occur?

[PlainWord]

Your theory has 1/2 of the earths population wicked,the other half righteous,but no wicked on the planet at his return.

pretty far fetched and rediculous.

It also places a lake of fire in the gt as opposed to the end of the 1k(tares being burned up)

You made that stuff up

What are you talking about??? I never said there would be no wicked left on earth when Christ returns. I am talking about the wicked being removed from the "Kingdom." Can you see the wicked being removed from the kingdom?

The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one...The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness.


This happens at the End of the Age. It is what we have been discussing. It is what the disciples were asking about at the Olivet. They wanted to know what the signs of His Coming would be and of the end of the age.

Mat 24: ...And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Mat 13: The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels... Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age... So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just...

You tell me, does this happen at a Pre Trib return, at the Second Coming post trib or at some other point?

 

[valiant]

Reigning? Really? We are laughed at EVERYWHERE. Outside of the western world we are hunted and slaughtered. This is not the 1000 year reign that is supposed to occur after Christ kills all His enemies. He has only come once. I don't know why you are so deceived as to think He came as a warrior king when He has only come as the sacrificial lamb.

2 Cor 10.3-6? 1 Tim 1.18; 6.12; 2 Tim 2.3-4? Col 2.15? Eph 6.10-18? Eph 1.19-23? WE ARE AT WAR!!

Don't you believe that Christ's kingdom is advancing even now? Muslims in Indonesia are turning to Christ in droves. The Gospel is spreading rapidly with Christ with us all the way (Matt 28.20). Success is guaranteed in spite of the power of the Enemy.

YOUR supposed 1000 year kingdom ends with an inept king who is supposed to have ruled with a rod of iron failing in the end and unable to prevent disillusion, warfare, rape and violence on a vast scale so that in spite of being Almighty God he is at his wit's end and has to call on Heaven for help.

 

[valiant]

Sigh. I believe I now understand every one of your beliefs now regarding bible prophecy. My guess is that you don't believe Christ will return at all and there won't be a day without sin.

which just shows how deceived you are. Christ will return in glory, resurrect the dead and take the living up to be with Himself so that they are ever with Him, bringing final judgment on the world. From then on ALL days will be without sin. Sin and death will be no more.

In fact that is what you are saying. If Christ is reigning right now over all the Earth than apparently He will never destroy all sin. If that is the case then Satan has won.

I despair of you. God has reigned over the earth from Eden onwards. The Psalms are full of the fact that YHWH REIGNS. After His resurrection Jesus Christ took His throne as the Messiah and sent His troops into all the world the bring men under His kingly rule. He is establishing His kingdom even now. That is why we pray every day 'may your Kingly Rule come about'. Read Eph 1.19-23. His church is being established and then the end will come. Satan will have been defeated. Sin will be destroyed. And we, His bride, will enter the EVERLASTING KINGDOM

For he has not yet been cast into the lake of fire if sin is still rampant. Not to mention that the second resurrection has to occur AFTER the 1000 year reign but you make it sound as though there is no end to the 1000 years.

that will take place at His second coming. The '1000 years' will end when He comes again!!!

 

[SilverFanng]

2 Cor 10.3-6? 1 Tim 1.18; 6.12; 2 Tim 2.3-4? Col 2.15? Eph 6.10-18? Eph 1.19-23? WE ARE AT WAR!!

Don't you believe that Christ's kingdom is advancing even now? Muslims in Indonesia are turning to Christ in droves. The Gospel is spreading rapidly with Christ with us all the way (Matt 28.20). Success is guaranteed in spite of the power of the Enemy.

YOUR supposed 1000 year kingdom ends with an inept king who is supposed to have ruled with a rod of iron failing in the end and unable to prevent disillusion, warfare, rape and violence on a vast scale so that in spite of being Almighty God he is at his wit's end and has to call on Heaven for help.

You declare that we are at war. Are you then saying that God is so inept that He can't maintain order on Earth by His power alone? That He needs us to accomplish this? He extinguished all life on earth before and what was left survived because God gave them the only way to do so. Now He needs pathetic humans, who can't even save ourselves, to do what, according to you, He cannot. This is what it sounds like you are saying. Where am I misunderstanding your meaning?

 

[JesusIsAll]

Interesting. People who have found the pre-tribulation rapture in scripture are in great agreement, have a certain harmony that also resembles the scripture harmony. On the other hand, you post-tribbers seem to be at each other's throats, with little to no common truth emerging, the more you blather. All with private interpretations (if you can call them that). Isn't this interesting?

Didn't mean to interrupt. I'll let you get back to devouring each other.

 

[valiant]

You declare that we are at war. Are you then saying that God is so inept that He can't maintain order on Earth by His power alone? That He needs us to accomplish this? He extinguished all life on earth before and what was left survived because God gave them the only way to do so. Now He needs pathetic humans, who can't even save ourselves, to do what, according to you, He cannot. This is what it sounds like you are saying. Where am I misunderstanding your meaning?

you are getting there. Yes amazingly God chose us inept human beings to be His advanced forces taking possession of the kingdom, not because He is inept but because He is gracious and can accomplish His purposes with weaklings such as us. When it all began He made Adam king over all living creatures. Adam failed. But He has maintained that purpose. It is man who must defeat Satan through the One Who is both God and Man. That is what Scripture is all about. MAN conquering Satan, the woman's seed bruising the Serpent's head. That is why Revelation pictures His people as OVERCOMERS. They will overcome at last when THE MAN finalises the victory.

 

[SilverFanng]

which just shows how deceived you are. Christ will return in glory, resurrect the dead and take the living up to be with Himself so that they are ever with Him, bringing final judgment on the world. From then on ALL days will be without sin. Sin and death will be no more.




I despair of you. God has reigned over the earth from Eden onwards. The Psalms are full of the fact that YHWH REIGNS. After His resurrection Jesus Christ took His throne as the Messiah and sent His troops into all the world the bring men under His kingly rule. He is establishing His kingdom even now. That is why we pray every day 'may your Kingly Rule come about'. Read Eph 1.19-23. His church is being established and then the end will come. Satan will have been defeated. Sin will be destroyed. And we, His bride, will enter the EVERLASTING KINGDOM




that will take place at His second coming. The '1000 years' will end when He comes again!!!

You declare that we will live forever in heaven. Revelation 21 declares that new Jerusalem will descend from Heaven to Earth. I admit you are seriously complicated. I say this because it seems as though you are twisting prophecy to suit you. I don't. The future I see through all ancient prophecy is a hell on Earth until Christ fulfills the rest of prophecy. I want to jump to the end but I realize that God doesn't work like that. I weep for all who fail to see what we are warned will come due to selfishness. I am not putting myself above anything or anyone. I anticipate that when this comes, should it come in my time, that I will die horribly as will most. If you deny it completely heartache waits for you. Make peace now before it's too late.

 

[just-me]

The '1000 years' will end when He comes again!!!

The thousand years will begin when we begin to celebrate the feast of tabernacles on this earth. I think you're at least 1000 years off schedule according to prophecy.

"But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Zechariah 14)

This hasn't happened yet. Neither has the following.

"The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (Ezekiel 37)

 

[valiant]

Interesting. People who have found the pre-tribulation rapture in scripture are in great agreement, have a certain harmony that also resembles the scripture harmony. On the other hand, you post-tribbers seem to be at each other's throats, with little to no common truth emerging, the more you blather. All with private interpretations (if you can call them that). Isn't this interesting?

Didn't mean to interrupt. I'll let you get back to devouring each other.

LOL pretribbers in agreement? You must be joking. But I'm NOT a post-tribber. THERE WILL BE NO GREAT TRIBULATION. It is mainly in the past.

 

[valiant]

The thousand years will begin when we begin to celebrate the feast of tabernacles on this earth. I think you're at least 1000 years off schedule according to prophecy.

"But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (Zechariah 14)

This hasn't happened yet. Neither has the following.

"The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. (Ezekiel 37)

Both have happened. It is just that you are too blind to see Permanent light has come. The living waters have gone out into the world (John 7.38-39). The LORD is king over all the earth (Rev 1.5). Jerusalem has been exalted beyond the reach of sinful men (Gal 4.20 ff; Heb 11.20-22; Rev 21). Those who refuse to worship GOD are being punished with many tribulations. Judah and Ephraim have become one in Christ. They all have one shepherd. It is all being finally fulfilled before His coming .

 

[SilverFanng]

you are getting there. Yes amazingly God chose us inept human beings to be His advanced forces taking possession of the kingdom, not because He is inept but because He is gracious and can accomplish His purposes with weaklings such as us. When it all began He made Adam king over all living creatures. Adam failed. But He has maintained that purpose. It is man who must defeat Satan through the One Who is both God and Man. That is what Scripture is all about. MAN conquering Satan, the woman's seed bruising the Serpent's head. That is why Revelation pictures His people as OVERCOMERS. They will overcome at last when THE MAN finalises the victory.

Oh my gosh. Wow. Just, wow. You have so much pride that God has placed a message on my heart for you. You will bare witness to His prophecy first hand. You will see this all come to pass. You will see the Lord.

I don't know what this means. This is only meant for you. Remember these words.

 

[just-me]

LOL pretribbers in agreement? You must be joking. But I'm NOT a post-tribber. THERE WILL BE NO GREAT TRIBULATION. It is mainly in the past.

Past? Isn't there any future? Are we just waiting for whatever might be, or is it that all things in prophecy are completely over and done with?

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" Matthew 24:3

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
(Matthew 24)

"In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." 1 Corinthians 15:52

"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

 

[JesusIsAll]

LOL pretribbers in agreement? You must be joking. But I'm NOT a post-tribber. THERE WILL BE NO GREAT TRIBULATION. It is mainly in the past.

Well, one must suppose that, under the big tent here, there are plenty of seats for the really far gone, too.

 

[just-me]

Both have happened. It is just that you are too blind to see Permanent light has come. The living waters have gone out into the world (John 7.38-39). The LORD is king over all the earth (Rev 1.5). Jerusalem has been exalted beyond the reach of sinful men (Gal 4.20 ff; Heb 11.20-22; Rev 21). Those who refuse to worship GOD are being punished with many tribulations. Judah and Ephraim have become one in Christ. They all have one shepherd. It is all being finally fulfilled before His coming .

Are you attending the feast of tabernacles? Of course you might think that the law is void also. If Judah and Ephraim are one, then why are there still so many differences in doctrinal beliefs between Protestant Christians and Messianic Jews?

 

[valiant]

Oh my gosh. Wow. Just, wow. You have so much pride that God has placed a message on my heart for you. You will bare witness to His prophecy first hand. You will see this all come to pass. You will see the Lord.

I don't know what this means. This is only meant for you. Remember these words.

Thank you. That's encouraging (although nothing to do with pride. Why should I be proud?). If I will see it all including His prophecy of the end first hand that does mean no millennium lol. YOU SHOULD TAKE HEED. I will certainly look forwards to seeing the LORD. For if you are right it will all happen in the next ten years, or most likely less. Then the everlasting kingdom will have come in. Time will be no more

 

[valiant]

Are you attending the feast of tabernacles? Of cousre you might think that the law is void also.

Yes I come to the new Jerusalem and rejoice in the Lord of the harvest continually and worship daily at His altar..

 

[valiant]

Are you attending the feast of tabernacles? Of course you might think that the law is void also. If Judah and Ephraim are one, then why are there still so many differences in doctrinal beliefs between Protestant Christians and Messianic Jews?

If by Messianic Jews you mean Christian Jews then we are all one in Christ certain beliefs notwithstanding. If you mean non-Christian Jews they will only ever be acceptable by God if they come to Christ. Then they will have been made one with us and have become a part of the 'all Israel which will be saved (both Jew and Gentile)'.

 

[just-me]

Are you attending the feast of tabernacles? Of course you might think that the law is void also. If Judah and Ephraim are one, then why are there still so many differences in doctrinal beliefs between Protestant Christians and Messianic Jews?

Yes I come to the new Jerusalem and rejoice in the Lord of the harvest continually and worship daily at His altar..

Cool, then you can tell me what the 13 bullocks represent Spiritually. The 15th of the seventh month begins the feast of tabernacles.

Numbers 29:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And on the fifteenth day of the seventh month ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work, and ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And ye shall offer a burnt offering, a sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the LORD; thirteen young bullocks, two rams, and fourteen lambs of the first year; they shall be without blemish:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil, three tenth deals unto every bullock of the thirteen bullocks, two tenth deals to each ram of the two rams,

 

[RickyZ]

Ricky, you too can really have that kind of inner personal LOVE relationship with the LORD Jesus Christ in your heart for REAL. You will know it happened, when wave after wave of remorse over your utter sinfulness washes over you, and you cry out to HIM sobbing for forgiveness; as you willingly out of a DEEP LOVE for HIM totally surrender to HIM as your MASTER (LORD), giving HIM complete control of your life forever, without keeping one tiny bit back for yourself.

That is NOT something you do in your mind out of your strength; that is something the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF DOES IN YOUR HEART {your human spirit}.

Galatians 2:20 (ISV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I no longer live, but Christ lives in me, and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

[video]https://youtu.be/HcnfT4arZtI[/video]

And your assumption that I haven't experienced this proves my point.

 

[RickyZ]

Honestly, I think we're just doing as Christ commanded and sharpening ourselves as steel against steel. These debates and discussions are just making our faith stronger and correcting where it is we were wrong.

I absolutely agree with that; I take part in this as a way to keep my mind on God and my sword sharp.

What I take umbrage with is those who think they have a lock on the truth and insist that everyone else is an unsaved heretic, as in VCO's last response to me. You have to put the blade to stone and wear a little off to sharpen a sword. Those who refuse to do so or don't think they need to are dull blades for sure. They are the stone and not the sword. But Jesus never said take up your stones.