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Some professing Christains say that God's law is a curse. What? Why?
- Thread starter just-me
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The Bible is a spiritual book and can only be understood if one accepts Jesus Christ.
To Accept Jesus Christ so as to be Saved (Born Again), check out these Comic Book Tracts here:
For men:
This Was Your Life.
For women:
You Have a Date.
If you call it that. That's fine but yes I disagree with God making people eat there babies, having slaves, and God taking human sacrifice. Etc.and a lot of other things
2kings 6 26
Jerimah 19:9
Judges 11 30
And some things I agree with like, love justice peace and righteousness .etc
But it would probably be best just stick with the topic of the OP
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atwhatcost
Guest
I don't have to be a quantum physicist to debate quantum physics, but I sure look stupid debating it with a bunch of quantum physicists. I don't even get E = MC^2. I just have an embarrassment factor that doesn't make me go all out to prove what I don't know to people who do know.Arnt we all just mouthing ..
But you pull the same card when you know I'm right lol like I have to be a Christian to discuss bible topics
Maybe your different.
A
atwhatcost
Guest
Deuteronomy 28:10-15
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But it shall come to pass,if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 chronicles 7:14
God the Father of Christ Jesus has always been graceful. By His grace through Christ He has made a way to avoid those curses, both in the Old Covenant, and the New Covenant. That proves that He never has wanted us to suffer the curses, but has always wanted us to be blessed. (John 3:16) This is where both Old and New Covenants meet because God's way will never change because His love is everlasting from the beginning. Jesus came to change us, not the words of God the Father that were from the beginning.
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the Lord; and they shall be afraid of thee.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the Lord sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]The Lord shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the Lord shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the Lord thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But it shall come to pass,if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 chronicles 7:14
God the Father of Christ Jesus has always been graceful. By His grace through Christ He has made a way to avoid those curses, both in the Old Covenant, and the New Covenant. That proves that He never has wanted us to suffer the curses, but has always wanted us to be blessed. (John 3:16) This is where both Old and New Covenants meet because God's way will never change because His love is everlasting from the beginning. Jesus came to change us, not the words of God the Father that were from the beginning.
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12
Covenants changed, which necessitated a change in priesthoods. Right?
You say all the scriptures are God's word. I agree. None of it is a curse.
The Decalogue was given, and the attending ordinances delivered by Moses. They included dietary laws.
But suppose I appeal to an older covenant containing a different dietary ordinance from God. Why should I have to give it up?
Genesis 9:3-4 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
I like that commandment, as there is no curse on eating pork, as long as I avoid the blood. That one is amazingly simple to remember and keep, there being no details as to what's clean or unclean.
Let's say I'm a descendant of Noah's son Japhath. We are not Israel here in Japhathland. I am a Japhathlandman. We never heard of Moses. Our ancient father Noah said we could eat the herbs and anything that moves, so we always have raised crops for food, gathered fruit from the wild, and consume whatever animal we like to eat. We forbid the blood.
Are we sinning? Did God lie to Noah? Or, why didn't God make sure we kept up with changes in his laws?
A man came to Japhathland with news about God's Son. We believe on Jesus now. His apostles taught us something similar to what Noah heard about food and drink, and indeed they say never eat or drink blood. What he taught us agrees with what Noah taught us, seeing no great flood again, and we see rainbows.
The point is that God made a people of tribes for himself, called the group Israel, and set them apart from the 'Japhathites', 'Hamlanders' (Canaanites), all other groups that spread out from Noah and his 3 sons. He separated them by giving the Law by way of Moses, with blessings for obedience, and curses for not obeying. Israel experienced both many times, going from holy to wicked, back and forth, losing their lands, all their blessings twice. The nation turned to other gods, fell into all sins the Law defined. But God still loves them. He will save a remnant of them.
Just failing to obey one of those laws left them guilty of all those laws. So the blessings became null and void. The curses remained.
Raise your hand if you would like to do better than Israel. Think America could do better?
I am in Christ. To do that I died to the law with Jesus, was buried with Jesus, and rose with him to new life. Whatever hold the Law had on me is not valid, because when you die, the Law's grip is released. But if I had remained in bondage to sin without the hope of Jesus Christ, I would still be in the hold of the Law, for the law was given due to multiplication of lawlessness, and applies to all who are slaves to sin.
My blessings are according to promises of the New Covenant of Jesus, ratified in his blood, thereby a superior covenant of freedom. God's commandments in Christ are a far easier cross to bear. When I fail his commandment, I am not required to do penance, bring a sacrifice, or anything but repent and receive forgiveness.
Now for me all of God's word is a blessing, with none of the curses of the Law on me. All that remain are the blessings, for the same God made this new covenant so. Just being out from under the curses of the Law is a blessing. On top of that he has blessed us with all spiritual blessings, and sealed us with his Spirit of promise. I am freed up to enjoy life, doing his will to his glory.
Dear Marc:
It is not true that we cannot please God with certain efforts (good works).
The Bible says our good works according to his will are well pleasing in his sight.
"Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." (Hebrews 13:21).
The key difference is if God is working in a person or not.
It is not true that we cannot please God with certain efforts (good works).
The Bible says our good works according to his will are well pleasing in his sight.
"Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." (Hebrews 13:21).
The key difference is if God is working in a person or not.
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All physical ordinances in the Old Covenant have spiritual representations in the New covenant such as clean and unclean foods, the law of leprosy, and so on. If this isn't recognized, then there is a carnal fleshly mind that is getting in the way.
Romans 8:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Most will just throw the whole thing away and say it has been relaced becasue they just can't get it. It's too much of a burden, therefore the law is seen as nothing but a curse.
The moral laws and lessons in the Old Testament that have carried over into the New are unchanged. As for the other laws (like the ceremonial and judicial laws), they are shadows or types pointing to Jesus Christ. So every word in the Bible has value, purpose, and meaning.
That is absolutly correct. Even the ceremonial laws can give us great insight concerning all that Jesus Christ has fulfilled. AMEN brother!
hebrews 7
Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended bfrom Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him,
c“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside dbecause of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for ethe law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, fa better hope is introduced, through which gwe draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, 21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him:
h“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind,
‘You are a priest forever.’”
22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of ia better covenant.
23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues jforever. 25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost2 kthose who draw near to Godlthrough him, since he always lives mto make intercession for them.
26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest,nholy, innocent, unstained, oseparated from sinners, and pexalted above the heavens. 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, qfirst for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this ronce for all when he offered up himself. 28 For the law appoints men sin their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made tperfect forever.
Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13 For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended bfrom Judah, and in connection with that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.
15 This becomes even more evident when another priest arises in the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become a priest, not on the basis of a legal requirement concerning bodily descent, but by the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of him,
c“You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”
18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside dbecause of its weakness and uselessness 19 (for ethe law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, fa better hope is introduced, through which gwe draw near to God.
20 And it was not without an oath. For those who formerly became priests were made such without an oath, 21 but this one was made a priest with an oath by the one who said to him:
h“The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind,
‘You are a priest forever.’”
22 This makes Jesus the guarantor of ia better covenant.
23 The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24 but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues jforever. 25 Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost2 kthose who draw near to Godlthrough him, since he always lives mto make intercession for them.
26 For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest,nholy, innocent, unstained, oseparated from sinners, and pexalted above the heavens. 27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, qfirst for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this ronce for all when he offered up himself. 28 For the law appoints men sin their weakness as high priests, but the word of the oath, which came later than the law, appoints a Son who has been made tperfect forever.
but then...
1 Corinthians 11:18-19
18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
You're wrong on so many counts of Pauline Dispensationism...here, get educated...
withCHRIST.org
MidActsDispensational teaching is a different animal.
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B
Biblelogic01
Guest
What better instruction is there than bringing people to Christ?
Did you know there are believers in Christ that still haven't come to Him yet? They don't even know they're supposed to. They think if they are "good" and don't break the 10 commandments too much they are ok.
But truly, if you believed my 2nd statement you would understand and have no problem with my first.
If a person goes back to work at the law for their blessing they have fallen from Grace. So then, what are we talking about? Encouraging people to fall from Grace so they can be blessed by their work at the law?
There's Judaism.
Then Judaisms cousin, Hebrew roots.
There's the pharisees and the legalists.
Yes. Yes it is.
What some are calling works, I call fruit. Fruit is the result of another tilling, planting, watering and fertilizing and pruning...and our abiding.
Works speak of self effort, self determination, self planting, watering etc in short ...self glorying.
Works speak of self effort, self determination, self planting, watering etc in short ...self glorying.
The law that we are under when we come to Him.
We are no longer under a carnal commandment when we come to Christ.
We are under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
God changed His Law???
You really need to keep reading Hebrews 7
Hebrews 7:16-19
[SUP][SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
This is really good stuff. The Old Testament commandments are all but annulled when we come to Christ. Why? I thought they were good, etc. They are good. But they don't have power to make us good. Only our High Priest Jesus Christ has that power.
Isn't it amazing how He Blesses us?
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
[/SUP]
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Well, actually no. Both teach that there are two gospels at least. I have researched it and have spoken with many who believe in it. They both twist Paul's teachings and make it seem like his teaching is different than Jesus's teaching when they are not.
Do a basic Google search on each of them.
"Pauline Christianity"
"Mid Acts Dispensationalism"
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