Some professing Christains say that God's law is a curse. What? Why?

[just-me]

You might reject it but all writing is from man, unless there's something God wrote that we have today ?

You are probably referring to these verses, and probably might tend to separate prophecy into its separate category. Of course there are numerous stories of Israel's history, but that also is a record of God's judgments and not man's. All scripture is given by inspiration of God.

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Romans 15:4

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
2 Peter 1:21

What I am clearly endorsing is that no scripture comes from man's thoughts alone without being inspired by God. God is a spirit of motivation that scripture defines. If Paul wrote without being inspired by God, then we would have to say that the epistles of Paul were also his own thoughts without any influence from God Almighty. We need to divert from the physical rhetoric. We all know that men physically wrote the scrolls, but it is still the word of God. The carnal mind is enmity against God.

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold." Exodus 20:22-23

And so Moses repeated God's instructions spoken to him clear through chapter 23. These are not Moses' words, they are God's.

But now can we agree that all scripture given to us in writing was given by God to man? Therefore all scripture comes from God and not just an invention of man.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:16

 

[crossnote]

Arnt we all just mouthing ..

But you pull the same card when you know I'm right lol like I have to be a Christian to discuss bible topics

your profile says non christian and so does your non biblical stances confirm your profile.

Just a reminder of CC rule #2
2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.

 

[yaright]

I would like to see scripture that says that the law "is" a curse.

I have mentioned that the Torah has blessings and cursings listed in Deuteronomy 11:26-28. The curses are listed in Deuteronomy 27:13-26, and the blessings are listed in Deuteronomy 28:3-13. In conversation, I have heard that the law has been made void and there are no law blessings because the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant.



Numbers 6:23-27
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“Speak to Aaron and his sons, saying, Thus you shall bless the people of Israel: you shall say to them,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]The Lord bless you and keep you;
[SUP]25 [/SUP]the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]“So shall they put my name upon the people of Israel, and I will bless them.”

If the Torah has been made void by the New Covenant, this above scripture is vanity when recited in the New Covenant church.

Now here is where it begins to make no sense to me. If the law (Torah) has been made void, the blessings listed in Torah are also void. Nevertheless the voided law still has curses, because "the law is a curse" as I have heard.

So is it right to call the Torah a curse for the sake of endorsing a lawless (minus Torah) New Covenant that replaced the Old Covenant Torah?

This is my conundrum; If the Torah is void so are the blessings, so why mention the curses in something that doesn't exist for the sake of endorsing the New Covenant that has no Torah or law? To me there has to be both blessings and cursings if the law is still relevant, but if it isn't, why do we continue to acknowledge this scripture? If we mention the curse of something, that something is not void, because the curse of that something is not void. That's like putting shingles on a house before it's built.

Galatians 3:10-13
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

If the curse still exists, the blessings also must exist. If there are no Torah blessings for believers because the law doesn't exist, then both curses and blessings are void also. Where did the grace of God go?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'conundrum'
For those who chose to live under the law, they remain incomplete because they cannot be justified by a two laws; There is a tree spoken of that bears two fruits; both good and evil. This is the same fig tree that Adam and Eve covered themselves with. The fig tree has been spoken of having two fruits. One in the prime season of growing, and one in the bitter winter of little growth. Both of them 'natures' can be found in each and every one of us; because we saw that even sin looked good. This became a curse when law revealed it within each of us. There are food laws that reveal there is a nature that is lawful food for God's people, which causes growing and strength. There are food laws that reveal a nature that causes a bitter death, like that of the swine spoken of in both the New and Old Testaments. Jesus reveals these natures we are to have dominion over. When this is done in our hearts, the law is fulfilled from within, and there is no longer a necessity for the law except as a reminder of where we came from. So, the law remains as a witness, a memorial, for us to ask, what does this mean and how does this affect my life? Without Christ, those questions cannot be answered. It is through Jesus that our eyes are opened to understanding these things on a personal level. If you speak of the conundrum while looking at 'others' , you will not be able to see what is hidden from you. But if you apply this to your own life, you are looking towards the fulfillment of the law within you, but you will not know this until the day you know how and why the law was fulfilled within you as you walked and listen carefully to the purpose of the path Jesus walked; a path (street) called straight...., to the cross. If you're curious to know what is on the other side of the cross, follow the path of wisdom Jesus walked and teaching will reveal many things you did know about yourself.

 

[Origin]

your profile says non christian and so does your non biblical stances confirm your profile.

Just a reminder of CC rule #2
2. No conduct that is offensive or counterproductive to fellowship.We like to welcome all to Christian Chat, but if anyone is not here for fellowship (or for wanting to know about Christianity), but simply for disrupting fellowship, offending people, whatever, then that person is not welcome.

You guy break your own rules.

 

[Origin]

You are probably referring to these verses, and probably might tend to separate prophecy into its separate category. Of course there are numerous stories of Israel's history, but that also is a record of God's judgments and not man's. All scripture is given by inspiration of God.

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope." Romans 15:4

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
2 Peter 1:21

What I am clearly endorsing is that no scripture comes from man's thoughts alone without being inspired by God. God is a spirit of motivation that scripture defines. If Paul wrote without being inspired by God, then we would have to say that the epistles of Paul were also his own thoughts without any influence from God Almighty. We need to divert from the physical rhetoric. We all know that men physically wrote the scrolls, but it is still the word of God. The carnal mind is enmity against God.

"And the Lord said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold." Exodus 20:22-23

And so Moses repeated God's instructions spoken to him clear through chapter 23. These are not Moses' words, they are God's.

But now can we agree that all scripture given to us in writing was given by God to man? Therefore all scripture comes from God and not just an invention of man.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"
2 Timothy 3:16

1 Corinthians 7 25
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful

I think he just wrote what he felt best ,

 

[MarcR]

The law indeed contains many curses; and when Christians speak of the Law, they probably refer to Dt 27:26, which is quoted in Gal 3:10.

To say that the Law IS a curse, IMO, implies that all the moral precepts that Jesus taught from the Law are part of that curse; and most of us would not agree with that, including those that said it.

The Law is NOT a curse; and it contains many things of great value.

The curse of the law is given to teach people that we are unable to please God by our own efforts, and that we need the Salvation which is only available from Jesus.

 

[crossnote]

ie, everyone not saved by the grace of God, having the things which were against them, apposed to them, and having nailed that curse to the cross. Is under the curse of the law.

yeah, those too...

​Romans 2:11-12, 14-1511 For there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

 

[crossnote]

You guy break your own rules.

They are not my rules. They are those who can ban you for breaking them. So if you want to last here you should take warning. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory...feel free.

 

[Reborn]

Arnt we all just mouthing ..

But you pull the same card when you know I'm right lol like I have to be a Christian to discuss bible topics

No.
Safe to say, that one has to be a Christian, to truly understand topics from the Bible.
Its hard for us to take anyone that thinks the Bible is just an "interesting" book, serious.

It's our way of life.

 

[Origin]

They are not my rules. They are those who can ban you for breaking them. So if you want to last here you should take warning. If you want to go out in a blaze of glory...feel free.

We should go out in a blaze of glory together .
In the name of Christ the truth has to be spread

 

[Origin]

No.
Safe to say, that one has to be a Christian, to truly understand topics from the Bible.
Its hard for us to take anyone that thinks the Bible is just an "interesting" book, serious.

It's our way of life.

It only takes common Sence to understand it.. Maybe I just have a gift , it's a easy read

What I do find interesting is there's all the Christians with the same book, but arguing about What it means . 1 book but a thousand denominations. A thousand interpretaions ... So how can one not take somebody who not a Christian seriously when the Christians can't even get it together . Now that's a topic you guys should have , and have unity and be on one of accord amongst yalls self.

God is not a author of confusion ..

 

[just-me]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'conundrum'
For those who chose to live under the law, they remain incomplete because they cannot be justified by a two laws; There is a tree spoken of that bears two fruits; both good and evil. This is the same fig tree that Adam and Eve covered themselves with. The fig tree has been spoken of having two fruits. One in the prime season of growing, and one in the bitter winter of little growth. Both of them 'natures' can be found in each and every one of us; because we saw that even sin looked good. This became a curse when law revealed it within each of us. There are food laws that reveal there is a nature that is lawful food for God's people, which causes growing and strength. There are food laws that reveal a nature that causes a bitter death, like that of the swine spoken of in both the New and Old Testaments. Jesus reveals these natures we are to have dominion over. When this is done in our hearts, the law is fulfilled from within, and there is no longer a necessity for the law except as a reminder of where we came from. So, the law remains as a witness, a memorial, for us to ask, what does this mean and how does this affect my life? Without Christ, those questions cannot be answered. It is through Jesus that our eyes are opened to understanding these things on a personal level. If you speak of the conundrum while looking at 'others' , you will not be able to see what is hidden from you. But if you apply this to your own life, you are looking towards the fulfillment of the law within you, but you will not know this until the day you know how and why the law was fulfilled within you as you walked and listen carefully to the purpose of the path Jesus walked; a path (street) called straight...., to the cross. If you're curious to know what is on the other side of the cross, follow the path of wisdom Jesus walked and teaching will reveal many things you did know about yourself.

The conundrum is that some professing Christians say there are no blessings in the law, but there are still cursings. If the blessings are no longer relevant, then neither are the cursings. If the law has totally been made void through Christ Jesus, then the cursings are no longer there either. Not even for those who don't believe. If the law is only for the unbeliever, they will not listen to it in the first place. So where do we Christians apply the law in our lives. We establish the law by faith. Paul says that the carnal mind is enmity against God and cannot be subject to the law. So are the people that say the law is void actually of a carnal mind because they cannot understand the Spiritual concepts thereof, and all they are able to truthfully comprehend is the law's physical application without Spiritual understanding?

 

[Reborn]

It only takes common Sence to understand it.. Maybe I just have a gift , it's a easy read

What I do find interesting is there's all the Christians with the same book, but arguing about What it means . 1 book but a thousand denominations. A thousand interpretaions ... So how can one not take somebody who not a Christian seriously when the Christians can't even get it together . Now that's a topic you guys should have , and have unity and be on one of accord amongst yalls self.

God is not a author of confusion ..

True. God is not the author of confusion......mankind is.

Yes, common sense, to be able to get the basics, but it takes the Holy Spirit to really understand it.
If you've read it, then you must have ran across those parts?

As for all of the different denominations and interpretations? You got me there. That is somewhat of a mystery to all of us too.
It's a bit unfair to bring it up though. Even if there were a millions different denominations, the core is the same. The Bible and God.
Sorry, I can't speak for everyones walk....only mine.

Belonging to denomination or not, at the end of the day, it's a relationship between the individual and God.
Republican, Democrat, Baptist, NASA, Peta, NRA, FBI, PTA.
IMO, No matter what someone says, groups do NOT speak for the individual hearts.
I'm sure you belong to some group with who you don't 100% agree with every member who is part of it?

God searches the hearts and minds of each and every one of us, not the membership cards we hold.
.........but you probably already read that in the Bible.

 

[Biblelogic01]

Gods law and Moses law are not the same.

God gave his 10 commandments, and Moses gave his 400+ laws

Uuuuuum so Moses said God said this? ? ?
Leviticus 23:1-2/44
And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, [SUP]2 [/SUP]“Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘The feasts of the Lord, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, these are My feasts. . . . . . .
[SUP]44 [/SUP]So Moses declared to the children of Israel the feasts of the Lord.



That is actually God telling Moses what God has told. . . . . So um your statement is wrong.
Read carefully because each time there is a command, before it, it says "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them:"


So if God told Moses to say it, then it's from God.

 

[just-me]

The law indeed contains many curses; and when Christians speak of the Law, they probably refer to Dt 27:26, which is quoted in Gal 3:10.

To say that the Law IS a curse, IMO, implies that all the moral precepts that Jesus taught from the Law are part of that curse; and most of us would not agree with that, including those that said it.

The Law is NOT a curse; and it contains many things of great value.

The curse of the law is given to teach people that we are unable to please God by our own efforts, and that we need the Salvation which is only available from Jesus.

That I can agree with that. Paul and Jesus both confirm this in scripture. God didn't give the law so we would be cursed. It's our own actions that bring either curses or blessings accordingly. It's not the law by itself, so why in the world do we relate the law only to a curse of sorts with no blessings?
"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." Luke 9:23
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily." 1 Corinthians 15:31

Let us all put this truth together with this scripture and stop throwing away a substantial part of God's word for us professing Christians. We live by all of God's word, not just part of it because we have a New Covenant.

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. Romans 7:4

 

[just-me]

It only takes common Sence to understand it.. Maybe I just have a gift , it's a easy read

What I do find interesting is there's all the Christians with the same book, but arguing about What it means . 1 book but a thousand denominations. A thousand interpretaions ... So how can one not take somebody who not a Christian seriously when the Christians can't even get it together . Now that's a topic you guys should have , and have unity and be on one of accord amongst yalls self.

God is not a author of confusion ..

Now to all us professing Christians. This is certainly something we should all take very seriously as a witness to the entire world. What do non-Christians see in us? Origin explains, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see this so clearly.

"Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." 1 Corinthians 1:10

My signature. See the OP. Christians have even confused me because what is said is not really scriptural in confirming aspects. Christ is not divided against His own Father.

 

[Elin]

I know of no Pauline Christians who say other than "curse of the law," as does Paul.

The only ones I see saying "the law is a curse" are those who think Christians should be observing the Mosaic law

and, as a straw man, falsely charge Pauline Christians with saying "the law is a curse".

 

[just-me]

I know of no Pauline Christians who say other than "curse of the law," as does Paul.

The only ones I see saying "the law is a curse" are those who think Christians should be observing the Mosaic law

and, as a straw man, falsely charge Pauline Christians with saying "the law is a curse".

Pauline Christianity is a term applied to what some perceive as the religious teaching unique to Paul’s writings and distinct from the gospel of Jesus. That is, Jesus taught one thing, and Paul taught something completely different. Those who believe in a separate Pauline Christianity believe that the Christianity of today has little to do with Jesus’ teachings; rather, it is the product of Paul’s corruption of those teachings.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.

Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.


​

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The conundrum is that some professing Christians say there are no blessings in the law, but there are still cursings. If the blessings are no longer relevant, then neither are the cursings. If the law has totally been made void through Christ Jesus, then the cursings are no longer there either. Not even for those who don't believe. If the law is only for the unbeliever, they will not listen to it in the first place. So where do we Christians apply the law in our lives. We establish the law by faith. Paul says that the carnal mind is enmity against God and cannot be subject to the law. So are the people that say the law is void actually of a carnal mind because they cannot understand the Spiritual concepts thereof, and all they are able to truthfully comprehend is the law's physical application without Spiritual understanding?

I haven't really read where anyone said there were no blessings in the law nor anything said about curses. The law was our schoolmaster to LEAD us to Christ . . . wouldn't that be for the unbeliever? And I know that scripture says the natural man doesn't understand spiritual things but we were all natural men at first - we heard the word - we believed - so at some point we had understanding in order to believe what we heard - now we have faith.

So . . . the law brought us to Christ, making us realize that we need a Saviour because we cannot do all the things contained in the law . . . are we still under that law? The law was added because of transgressions, until the "seed" should come. Are there any curses written to the church, the body of Christ, if we do not do everything written within the law? Only if we try to live by the law for righteousness do we fall under the curses. God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus [Eph.]

Now . . . are all the words of God profitable to us? Yes . . . Within them we have great godly principles to live by in our daily lives.

 

[just-me]

Now . . . are all the words of God profitable to us? Yes . . . Within them we have great godly principles to live by in our daily lives.

I couldn't agree more! Then we should never separate the law God gave to Moses from Christ and the New Covenant. The New Covenant through Christ gives us the Spiritual understanding of the law day by day and step by step. We are not justified by the works of the law because faith establishes it and by faith we are justified. To say the physical aspects of temple worship are abolished is correct IMO. Nevertheless, in order to respond to the love of God we are held responsible for our actions that God approves of. This is the law of love that is defined in the law God gave to Israel for our example. A love relationship works both ways. God has always been a God of grace, and has always wanted us to be blessed. Curses in the law are then a warning. Blessings given in the law are for us to pursue by faith and the Grace of God which has always been.

How are the unbelieving going to see this truth in the law if we believers say that it's been made void after the fact of salvation? What principles are we to live by if man shall only live by some of God's word instead of all of God's word? Spiritually speaking that is. The carnal mind is incapable of comprehending this.