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Sirk
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So....if someone is raping your daughter you just reason with the rapist and pray?
step aside "dad" and I'll take care of this for you.
Biblical Manhood
- Thread starter JFSurvivor
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So....if someone is raping your daughter you just reason with the rapist and pray?
step aside "dad" and I'll take care of this for you.
Well, first off all, I would pray for protection upon my daughter against such things since her birth. Jesus says if you abide in me and my words ask what you will and it will be done unto you. Second, if such was the case for another believer: Well, pulling a person off another person is not killing them. Surely you can tackle a person and not harm them and then grab the one you love and then run. Or holding the attacker and telling your loved one to run. There are many non violent ways to end a confrontation besides a gun and or using one's fists of fury to hurt another.
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Sirk
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You are incredibly naive. You should be a missionary somewhere so God can open your eyes.
Jesus held all everything together by the word of His power while he was on the cross. Do you really believe God cannot protect a believer? Do you think believers suffer or are persecuted for nothing?
All things work together for good to them that love God. When Joseph was sold into slavery by his brothers and was believed to be dead by his father, was there no purpose or plan by God in that situation? What about with Job? Was all his suffering for nothing? What about Christ? Surely we all know Christ suffered on our behalf because He loved us so very much. For God is love. The Scriptures say, we are to conform to the image of Christ. Meaning, we are to walk as Christ had walked.
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Sirk
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Actually, here are the Scripture verses that I referenced and verses I had in mind with the questions I asked.
Romans 8:28
Genesis 50:20
Job 1:8-11
Isaiah 53:5
Romans 5:8
1 Peter 4:1
Romans 8:29
1 John 2:6.
1 Peter 2:21.
Hey, JFS/BF!
There have been some good answer on here, and I'd like to give you a few from the perspective of an addictions/marriage & family counselor who has seen enough bad examples to build a short list of what a good example looks like. Before a man can love his wife as Christ loves the church, he has some personal housekeeping to tend to.
Those are some of my observations, JFS/BF and JFS. God bless.
- A man controls his emotions and passions. Single or married, a real man tames his passions. He doesn’t in any way abuse women or children -- particularly emotionally, which is where most abuse happens, and which type is the hardest to recognize and the least reported. A real man protects those around him, and that means family, friends, and strangers alike. He keeps his hands off a woman who is not his wife. He treats his wife with love, respect and dignity. He keeps his eyes off pornographic images. He protects a single woman’s virginity and innocence. He’s not defined by his exploits below the waist. He’s a man with a loving heart, a reasonable head, and a clear conscience.
- A man provides for his family. "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Timothy 5:8). These are strident words. When a man doesn’t work and provide for his family, he feels a sense of shame. His self-worth plummets, and though you will hear some say self-worth should be inconsequential to a Christian, it is realistically vital, as a man cannot see himself as salvageable if he does not think well of himself. A man who doesn’t work, who can’t keep a job, who moves from job to job, or who refuses to assume his responsibility creates insecurity in his wife and children. Every man needs to provide for his family, and that's not just a financial responsibility. He also must be willing and able to provide for emotional and spiritual needs. A father should train his children and prepare them to become responsible adults who know how to negotiate the swift and sometimes evil currents of the culture.
- A man protects his family. Don't be this guy: You are lying in bed with your wife, and you hear the sound of a window being opened in your kitchen at 3 a.m. You shake her awake and say, “The last time this occurred, I was the one who took our baseball bat and investigated to see if someone was breaking into our house. Now it’s your turn, Sweetheart. Here’s the bat!”? No! Being a protector calls for more than ensuring physical safety. Proverbs 4:10–15 describes a father who protects his son by passing on wisdom, helping him build godly character, and teaching him to reject the lies and temptations of the world. This father protects not only his son but the generations to follow as the wisdom he shares gets passed on. A hero is not necessarily the physically prepared so much as he is the spiritually grounded.
- A man serves and leads his family. Serve and lead may seem like a contradiction, but they are inseparable according to Scripture. Christ is the perfect example of leading by serving. Paul tells us in Ephesians 5:23 that "the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church." That last part of the verse excludes the dictatorial husband and father and replaces him with the servant-king. The passage goes on to say that husbands should love their wives "just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her" (verse 25). This paints a picture of leadership contrary to how the world views it. A man is called to be a servant-leader –- to take responsibility for his wife and children and to put their needs ahead of his own. He is called to demonstrate selfless, sacrificial love –- the type of love we see in God toward his children.
- A man follows God’s design for true masculinity. He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God" (Malachi 6:8)? The core of a man’s life should be his relationship with God. The man who walks humbly with God is motivated and empowered to step up and assume the difficult responsibilities that come his way.
JF's BF here: That is exactly what I want.
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Biblelogic01
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I don't think that is such a good idea for a couple that is not married to read such a book together. There is a lot of poetic imagery of a man and a woman desiring to be intimate with one another. In fact, Jewish boys were not allowed to read this book until they reached a certain age of maturity. The only way I would suggest for them to read this book together is in a Bible Study group or something or until they both got married.
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Also, if you are not convinced that a New Testament believer should be a pacificist today, I would highly recommend checking out this thread here,
ECT Should Christians use guns? - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More
ECT Should Christians use guns? - Theology Online | Christian Forums & More
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Ugly
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It's funny how some people try to create concepts that don't exist. If you have a job that has a manager over you, and you know how to do all the things the manager does, do you then 'need' a manager? No. You're able to do the things required to accomplish the job without the manager. But that does not mean that a leader is not required still. Someone to be in charge and steer people in the same direction.
Women can, and do, survive without men. They grow spiritually and live full lives. To state that a man should be the leader is not to imply that a woman is not capable (that's an assumption, not something implied) but rather that God has appointed how things should go and that leadership is needed in regards to more than one person.
Ideally you can look at the life of Christ as the example. Christ is clearly our 'leader' as Christians. He defended the kingdom and his family by turning over tables and running off thieves and con artists (wisdom, boldness, righteous anger, protection) but Christ was also humble to those of us he was with when here on earth (less boldness more humility, lead by example not as a tyrant). And just as we are to humble ourselves to Christ, so Christ humbled himself while on earth, much like a husband should do. Be fierce and protective when his family is at risk, but soft and humble when it comes to his interaction with his bride.
Need a New Testament passage that says we as husbands are supposed to be fierce so as to fight others. I must have missed that one. Yes, there are Old Testament passages that you might be able to find that could help you, but we are not under the Old Covenant anymore sacrificing animals (Which are but a shadow of the body of Christ).
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Sirk
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And if all else fails...post some fantasy land video that looks like it was made by the people who made the animated version of watership down and chock it full of scary visuals and left behind b minus actors and whatnot and just leave it at that.
***Rant over****
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cmarieh
Guest
Songs of Solomon is such a beautiful book in the Old Testament and it uplifts me and my spirit when I read it, but I agree with Jason here about not reading this book together unless you are married. However, I don't really see an issue reading this book in your own devotions. In fact as I write in my prayer journal for my future spouse whoever he may be I have been inspired by what I have read and helped me organize my thoughts as I write them down. The Holy Spirit is actually encouraging me to read in that book at the moment and I have learned so much not only of how God created women to be, but also learning how God created man.
Why? It's in the Owner's manual...you know the One who owns us
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. (1Co 11:3)
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cmarieh
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Personally, I am against weapons however I believe there is a time and place for use of the weapons if all other forms of self-defense deemed to be useless. I grew up where my dad hunted deer and so he did have a rifle for such events, but in all honesty he would turn to that as a last resort. I live in the country where our nearest neighbor is about a mile away and so we do pray for God's protection for the family and our home, but I don't really see anything wrong with using a weapon as a last resort. I do understand both sides of the argument on this one, but Sirk I don't think it is right to use "rape" in the context you used it. I humbly apologize if I took what you said the wrong way, but I just don't think its right.
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Sirk
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I can understand that and I appreciate your honesty. I can see how my illustration seemed a little harsh. The thing about those kinds of scenarios is that you don't know what you will do until you're smack dab in the middle of 14 chemicals rushing thru your brain....pontificating is one thing....living it out in a real world scenario is a whole new ball of wax. Blowhards are blowhards.....whether they brag about what they wouldn't do or what they would do and they really have no idea cuz they've never experienced it before.
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cmarieh
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I do think you could have used a scenario that if someone broke into your home and such and such happened. I am sorry that I am so sensitive on the subject of rape, but after hearing stories of that happening especially in the area where I live it is a sore spot with me. At a local university there were reported rapes and assaults and being a college student it does make me a bit nervous, if that makes sense. Thank you Sirk for being honest with me on this issue too, it is greatly appreciated.