The purpose of Christ

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Biblelogic01

Guest
1 Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully
 
Jan 19, 2013
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1 Timothy 1:8
But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully
Better than that, it is just and holy, but it is not the means of justification (salvation),
which is only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
Better than that, it is just and holy, but it is not the means of justification (salvation),
which is only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
No one here has once said it's a justification for salvation. I have not seen it once said. You're just assuming that those who support following Torah are saying that.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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No one here has once said it's a justification for salvation. I have not seen it once said.
You're just assuming that those who support following Torah are saying that.
I state that because the NT states it. . .you are doing the assuming.
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
Like as far as I see it with Torah observance and following Torah (this is a smaller picture of it).

Paul states it's holy, just, and good (why would we not participate in this if it's these things?)
Paul states it makes you aware of sin (why would we not want be aware of sin? if we're aware of sin, we are able to stay away from sin)
I mean look at those 2 simple basic examples.

Yeshua states to repent, to turn away from sin. How do we turn away from sin?

And befores someone says, "By accepting Yeshua." Then, ok well after accepting Yeshua, what happens after that? How do we live, and avoid sin?
Yeshua and the Holy Spirit is our guide and lead us away from sinning, which mean walking a holy, just, and righteous walk.

Well according to Paul what's just, right, and holy? . . . . What's good if it's followed properly(or "lawfully")?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Actually, Jesus said he "came" specifically "to give his life as a ransom for many."
The Son came and will [reveal] the Father to us if willing

22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is,
but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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I state that because the NT states it. . .you are doing the assuming.
so verses like

Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.

are not valid because they are not in the N.T. ?

you seem to only go by the new and reject the O.T. verses
 
Dec 26, 2014
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the transfer to Judah and the priesthood of Yahshua Hamashiach is found in TORAH all along - the change is from the old Levitical priesthood to JESUS highpriest - the old priesthood had to offer sacrifices every year >< Yahshua entered into the heavenlies , a sacrifice once for all time. He didn't change TORAH/GOD'S WORD.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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the transfer to Judah and the priesthood of Yahshua Hamashiach is found in TORAH all along -
the change is from the old Levitical priesthood to JESUS highpriest -
The change is from the earthly priesthood in the order of Aaron
to the eternal priesthood in the order of Melchizedek.

It's an entirely new priesthood, not related to the Levitical priesthood.

the old priesthood had to offer sacrifices every year >< Yahshua entered into the heavenlies , a sacrifice once for all time.
He didn't change TORAH/GOD'S WORD.
Straw man. . .

The words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
do not "change" God's word, they are God's word.

Stop putting asunder what God has joined.
 
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Dec 26, 2014
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so verses like

Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.

are not valid because they are not in the N.T. ?

you seem to only go by the new and reject the O.T. verses
a lot of what elin posts just doesn't make sense at all. and elin makes to attempt to 'explain'... very different from other posters no matter if they are right or wrong, just doesn't make sense... the reason could be anything from language translation troubles(i don't know what country elin hales from), to a computer program dictating answers, to an organizations manual with the answers down pat(without any real solution) , to autistic spectrum/ocd/other focus, to paraplegic, to roman catholic disrupter....
just very strange (inexplicable) and not in a helpful way, due to intrinsic errors elin posts...
 
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Biblelogic01

Guest
I state that because the NT states it. . .you are doing the assuming.
We're saying following Torah is not wrong to do. At least I'm stating that, and I will defend the fact that Torah is not wrong to follow. We're also stating that we do not believe the Torah is voided and obsolete, but along with that we still have not once stated that the Torah is salvation, we've stated repeatedly that Yeshua is the way to salvation.

When you come across and say, "it's not a means of salvation." to someone who's already stated that, then that person (such as myself) is going to take that as you are saying that I'm following it as a means of salvation when I'm not.
 
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Sirk

Guest
a lot of what elin posts just doesn't make sense at all. and elin makes to attempt to 'explain'... very different from other posters no matter if they are right or wrong, just doesn't make sense... the reason could be anything from language translation troubles(i don't know what country elin hales from), to a computer program dictating answers, to an organizations manual with the answers down pat(without any real solution) , to autistic spectrum/ocd/other focus, to paraplegic, to roman catholic disrupter....
just very strange (inexplicable) and not in a helpful way, due to intrinsic errors elin posts...
Woof woof.....er......baaaa....baaa.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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14Neither with you only do I make this covenant and this oath;
15But with him that standeth here with us this day before the Lord our God,

and also with him that is not here with us this day:
 
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JesusIsAll

Guest
a lot of what elin posts just doesn't make sense at all. and elin makes to attempt to 'explain'... very different from other posters no matter if they are right or wrong, just doesn't make sense... the reason could be anything from language translation troubles(i don't know what country elin hales from), to a computer program dictating answers, to an organizations manual with the answers down pat(without any real solution) , to autistic spectrum/ocd/other focus, to paraplegic, to roman catholic disrupter....
just very strange (inexplicable) and not in a helpful way, due to intrinsic errors elin posts...
Pretty strong words, for somebody who has no idea how to dye those Hebrew roots. Instead of coming to the foot of the cross, one can only suppose you came to the foot of a cable access channel and Buffalo Bill Hawkins. Little girls play house, Hebrew roots play Jew. It's inexplicable what any of you have to do with the faith and righteousness, which is only of Jesus Christ.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Like as far as I see it with Torah observance and following Torah (this is a smaller picture of it).

Paul states it's holy, just, and good (why would we not participate in this if it's these things?)
Your personal reasoning and logic do not supersede NT teaching.

Paul states it makes you aware of sin (why would we not want be aware of sin? if we're aware of sin, we are able to stay away from sin)
In the New Covenant that is a function of the Holy Spirit.

I mean look at those 2 simple basic examples.

Yeshua states to repent, to turn away from sin. How do we turn away from sin?

And befores someone says, "By accepting Yeshua." Then, ok well after accepting Yeshua, what happens after that? How do we live, and avoid sin?
Yeshua and the Holy Spirit is our guide and lead us away from sinning, which mean walking a holy, just, and righteous walk.
Ya' know. . .if you understood the NT, you wouldn't have all these irrelevant questions.

Well according to Paul what's just, right, and holy? . . . . What's good if it's followed properly(or "lawfully")?
Straw man. . .
 

Reborn

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2014
4,087
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a lot of what elin posts just doesn't make sense at all. and elin makes to attempt to 'explain'... very different from other posters no matter if they are right or wrong, just doesn't make sense... the reason could be anything from language translation troubles(i don't know what country elin hales from), to a computer program dictating answers, to an organizations manual with the answers down pat(without any real solution) , to autistic spectrum/ocd/other focus, to paraplegic, to roman catholic disrupter....
just very strange (inexplicable) and not in a helpful way, due to intrinsic errors elin posts...
I forgot to say to you, Jeffie.

Pretty wild how you didn't even take time to make a sheep costume before you joined.
You just came in, full blown, huff and puff-blowing your house down wolf.

Would it have killed you to have at least wrapped yourself in a sheep pattern blanket before hand?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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The Son came and will [reveal] the Father to us if willing

22All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is,
but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father;
neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Yes, the Son came. . .
 
Jan 19, 2013
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so verses like

Deuteronomy 12:19 (KJV)
19Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.

are not valid because they are not in the N.T. ?

you seem to only go by the new and reject the O.T. verses
Where is this Levite I am not to forsake?
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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a lot of what elin posts just doesn't make sense at all.
Is that a subjective or objective evaluation?

Do all agree with you?

and elin makes to attempt to 'explain'... very different from other posters no matter if they are right or wrong, just doesn't make sense... the reason could be anything from language translation troubles(i don't know what country elin hales from), to a computer program dictating answers, to an organizations manual with the answers down pat(without any real solution) , to autistic spectrum/ocd/other focus, to paraplegic, to roman catholic disrupter....
just very strange (inexplicable) and not in a helpful way, due to intrinsic errors elin posts...
Or all of the above?