When does the rapture occur?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
P

popeye

Guest
The Lord ascended so that we might learn to live by Him in the most intimate way first----internally.
Uh,so it "just so happened" that the father was there ,in heaven, by coincedence?

And the fact he referred to heaven as where he would build the mansions was ,what,jesus' confusion?

And the fact that the Jewish wedding protocal was for the SON TO RETURN to his fathers house and build a room for his bride...............of course we can not look at that ,can we?
 
P

popeye

Guest
God wants me to share that since the Great Tribulation is also referred to as the time of Jacob's trouble doesn't that mean that the Israelites need to be present in their entirity? Since the bible teaches that we are all Israelites now doesn't that mean we have to be there?
2 separate covenants.
jews reject the better one.

The GT,is,in fact God sorting all this out.

Postribs have confused the thing so badly,you guys are left with actually muddying up God's purposes
 
S

SilverFanng

Guest
Uh,so it "just so happened" that the father was there ,in heaven, by coincedence?

And the fact he referred to heaven as where he would build the mansions was ,what,jesus' confusion?

And the fact that the Jewish wedding protocal was for the SON TO RETURN to his fathers house and build a room for his bride...............of course we can not look at that ,can we?
Isn't the reference to the building of a place for us actually referring to the new Jerusalem which will descend to the earth from heaven? Being a thousand mile across cube it shouldn't be difficult to miss.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Omission of what? If you claim I left something out you have to let me know what so I can correct my errors.
You have in fact omitted the mansions in heaven. You explained it away.

Error. easily corrected,but postribs will not have anyone correct them.
 
S

SilverFanng

Guest
2 separate covenants.
jews reject the better one.

The GT,is,in fact God sorting all this out.

Postribs have confused the thing so badly,you guys are left with actually muddying up God's purposes
That's what you say of the jews. But what of the rest of the forgotten tribes?
 
P

popeye

Guest
Isn't the reference to the building of a place for us actually referring to the new Jerusalem which will descend to the earth from heaven? Being a thousand mile across cube it shouldn't be difficult to miss.
Could possibly be one in the same.
I doubt it though.
 
S

SilverFanng

Guest
You have in fact omitted the mansions in heaven. You explained it away.

Error. easily corrected,but postribs will not have anyone correct them.
Like I said in a previous post, the mansion is the new Jerusalem. Over a thousand miles in all directions. It will be so large that everyone will have a place there.
 
S

SilverFanng

Guest
Judah,levi,etc.=Jews
Exactly. Judah, levi, and Benjamin. That's all that constitutes the jews. There are 10 tribes out there unaccounted for. Even they have forgotten who they are just as hosea prophesied.
 
P

popeye

Guest
Isn't the rapture supposed to happen when taco bell goes out of business?
The AC will wrap believers in blankets,then decapitate them.

Kinda like chopping off some stray jalapeno sticking out of a burrito
 
P

popeye

Guest
Exactly. Judah, levi, and Benjamin. That's all that constitutes the jews. There are 10 tribes out there unaccounted for. Even they have forgotten who they are just as hosea prophesied.
what is the dynamic you are unpacking?
 
S

SilverFanng

Guest
what is the dynamic you are unpacking?
It's all there in hosea. The Israelites of the northern kingdom would forget who they were. Not until God brings them back will they remember who they are. This will happen when Christ comes back and only at the will of God. I don't know where they are but looking for them will help us keep an eye on prophecy. They aren't the jews because Christ told his disciples to not preach the gospel to the gentiles but to go to the Israelites who were scattered. They were scattered by Assyria and never returned.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
You're out of your league in the bride/groom dimension.
Amazing,that postribs have no clue as to the biggest event about to happen.
No brainer that the first is last in spiritual law,and yet postribs COMPLETELY IGNORE,THEN TWIST, THE WEDDING DIMENSION,(which will be the last)
The above statement is ludicrous as it matters greatly when the wedding occurs. If it occurs before the Tribulation then the GM in heaven and the Saints under the Alter cannot be apart of the Bride. ALL BELIEVERS are part of the BRIDE. Thus the BRIDE cannot be determined until ALL BELIEVERS have come in.
 
F

flob

Guest
My goodness popeye, I better not reply to you. It seems you ................. well, that doesn't seem good.
But I'll try to help you by addressing your last reply to me.

You wrote that the Lord Jesus "ascended to take his blood to the father. ..(has to do with the priesthood)."
I don't think that was in the spirit of your original question to me. So I wll try to turn it back, and ask you:
Then why didn't He return yet? How long did that take?

I have no idea what "sky grab" is supposed to mean. Sorry.
In regard to Jesus' "secret" ascension, He told the first person to see Him in resurrection,
in the morning: "Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My
brothers and say to them, I ascend..." Jn 20:17.
Shortly thereafter, on the same day, Matthew records that Jesus met her again, with His
mom ("the other Mary"), "And they came to Him and took hold of His feet" Mt 27:1, 9.
They touched Him. So, in the brief intervening time, He must have ascended to His Father.
If you have another, coherent, explanation of this, I'd be honored to read it.

In regard to your comment "Hogwash," I then have to question you:
When the Lord Jesus either gets on His white horse, or comes to the clouds,
or comes back to the earth physically; is He still physically on the throne of God
in the heavens simultaneously? For that matter, do you understand from the Bible
that Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth at all, and live and walk here,
(starting from the time of Armageddon)?

In regard to Mattthew 26:29, "I shall by no means drink of this product of the vine from now
on until that day when I drink it new with you in the kingdom of My Father,"
one text to show (to me) that this transpires on earth is Luke 22:29-30
"I appoint to you, even as My Father has appointed to Me, a kingdom, that you
may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging
the twelve tribes of Israel." Of course the kingdom is wherever the Lord is,
"the Kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, Look,
here it is! or, There! For behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst [Jesus] of you"
Lk 17:20-21. Essentially................Jesus Christ IS the kingdom of God, Lk 17:20-21.
As well is His church, His Body, Rm 14:17; Rv 1:6. But I've been taught that the
"Kingdom of [His] Father" is a particular Scriptural phrase that refers to His rule
with His co-kings during the Millenium, before the new heaven and the new earth.
Which, I understand, begins once He takes possession of the earth with, and after,
the battle of Armageddon.

I understand you to be interpreting that Jesus Christ will share wine with His disciples
in the heavens after He raptures them pre-tribulation. First I'd have to admit to anyone
else reading this that such a discussion of Mt 26:29 is trivial. Though it's alright to have
our opinions. Secondly I'll say that it looks like you're basing your idea (in part) on your
opinion that the John 2 record of the real wedding in Cana is also (or is primarily???!!!)
an allegory or symbol of the end times sequence of events, including rapture?
No offense, but to me that is not Jesus' or John's message at all. Instead that (real)
wedding served as a sign (Jn 2:11), an allegory, of the Lord's changing our "death"
into life. Changing the empty water of peoples' lives into the wine of the Spirit of
Himself, by coming into, and mingling with us, the "earthen vessels" He made in
His image, to contain (and live by) Him. Jn 2:6; Gen 1:26; 2 Cor 4:7; Rm 9:23.
This is His purpose for human life. This is the meaning of our existence. I should say,
He is the meaning of our life. Any other, additional, "message"---that this somehow
prefigures the end times, to me is a) distracting from the primary theme and message
of John and this portion; b) Superfluous and unnecessary---the Bible speaks plainly
about the raptures elsewhere and when necessary; and c) contrary to the principle that
the word of God is "plain" and direct and accessible and straightforward and orderly.
In other words, there's both no need to find, and no need to look for, the rapture in
John 2 (among other places). In fact, it is ascribing an importance to the topic of the
rapture which it (the raptures) do not have, and doing so at the expense of God's economy,
His heart's desire and eternal life, which is His overriding message in Scripture.

Lastly, you return to the (degraded) Christianity preoccupation with "heaven" with your
post #2461 (at least that is how it is numbered as of now). If you (or anyone else)
wants to talk about it seriously with me, I recommend we can go slowly, so that we remain
loving, and that we remain "on the same page" and not distracted, and also learn. I am willing
to learn, if you feel there is anything true or Scriptural to Christendom's (wrong) fixation on
"heaven" as God's eternal goal or His believers' eternal, physical, dwelling place.
I feel that your question about "coincidence," for example, in #2461, is out of order.
And I can try to start such a hopefully serious conversation about heaven by pointing out
that that word is nowhere in John 14, 15, 16..............or 17 except for John 17:1.
Much less did He "refer...to heaven as where he would build the mansions."
Pardon my Lol.
Thank you.
 
P

popeye

Guest
My goodness popeye, I better not reply to you. It seems you ................. well, that doesn't seem good.
But I'll try to help you by addressing your last reply to me.

You wrote that the Lord Jesus "ascended to take his blood to the father. ..(has to do with the priesthood)."
I don't think that was in the spirit of your original question to me. So I wll try to turn it back, and ask you:
Then why didn't He return yet? How long did that take?

I have no idea what "sky grab" is supposed to mean. Sorry.
In regard to Jesus' "secret" ascension, He told the first person to see Him in resurrection,
in the morning: "Do not touch Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My
brothers and say to them, I ascend..." Jn 20:17.
Shortly thereafter, on the same day, Matthew records that Jesus met her again, with His
mom ("the other Mary"), "And they came to Him and took hold of His feet" Mt 27:1, 9.
They touched Him. So, in the brief intervening time, He must have ascended to His Father.
If you have another, coherent, explanation of this, I'd be honored to read it.

In regard to your comment "Hogwash," I then have to question you:
When the Lord Jesus either gets on His white horse, or comes to the clouds,
or comes back to the earth physically; is He still physically on the throne of God
in the heavens simultaneously? For that matter, do you understand from the Bible
that Jesus Christ will physically come back to the earth at all, and live and walk here,
(starting from the time of Armageddon)?

In regard to Mattthew 26:29, "I shall by no means drink of this product of the vine from now
on until that day when I drink it new with you in the kingdom of My Father,"
one text to show (to me) that this transpires on earth is Luke 22:29-30
"I appoint to you, even as My Father has appointed to Me, a kingdom, that you
may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom; and you will sit on thrones judging
the twelve tribes of Israel." Of course the kingdom is wherever the Lord is,
"the Kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, Look,
here it is! or, There! For behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst [Jesus] of you"
Lk 17:20-21. Essentially................Jesus Christ IS the kingdom of God, Lk 17:20-21.
As well is His church, His Body, Rm 14:17; Rv 1:6. But I've been taught that the
"Kingdom of [His] Father" is a particular Scriptural phrase that refers to His rule
with His co-kings during the Millenium, before the new heaven and the new earth.
Which, I understand, begins once He takes possession of the earth with, and after,
the battle of Armageddon.

I understand you to be interpreting that Jesus Christ will share wine with His disciples
in the heavens after He raptures them pre-tribulation. First I'd have to admit to anyone
else reading this that such a discussion of Mt 26:29 is trivial. Though it's alright to have
our opinions. Secondly I'll say that it looks like you're basing your idea (in part) on your
opinion that the John 2 record of the real wedding in Cana is also (or is primarily???!!!)
an allegory or symbol of the end times sequence of events, including rapture?
No offense, but to me that is not Jesus' or John's message at all. Instead that (real)
wedding served as a sign (Jn 2:11), an allegory, of the Lord's changing our "death"
into life. Changing the empty water of peoples' lives into the wine of the Spirit of
Himself, by coming into, and mingling with us, the "earthen vessels" He made in
His image, to contain (and live by) Him. Jn 2:6; Gen 1:26; 2 Cor 4:7; Rm 9:23.
This is His purpose for human life. This is the meaning of our existence. I should say,
He is the meaning of our life. Any other, additional, "message"---that this somehow
prefigures the end times, to me is a) distracting from the primary theme and message
of John and this portion; b) Superfluous and unnecessary---the Bible speaks plainly
about the raptures elsewhere and when necessary; and c) contrary to the principle that
the word of God is "plain" and direct and accessible and straightforward and orderly.
In other words, there's both no need to find, and no need to look for, the rapture in
John 2 (among other places). In fact, it is ascribing an importance to the topic of the
rapture which it (the raptures) do not have, and doing so at the expense of God's economy,
His heart's desire and eternal life, which is His overriding message in Scripture.

Lastly, you return to the (degraded) Christianity preoccupation with "heaven" with your
post #2461 (at least that is how it is numbered as of now). If you (or anyone else)
wants to talk about it seriously with me, I recommend we can go slowly, so that we remain
loving, and that we remain "on the same page" and not distracted, and also learn. I am willing
to learn, if you feel there is anything true or Scriptural to Christendom's (wrong) fixation on
"heaven" as God's eternal goal or His believers' eternal, physical, dwelling place.
I feel that your question about "coincidence," for example, in #2461, is out of order.
And I can try to start such a hopefully serious conversation about heaven by pointing out
that that word is nowhere in John 14, 15, 16..............or 17 except for John 17:1.
Much less did He "refer...to heaven as where he would build the mansions."
Pardon my Lol.
Thank you.
I will not address you further.
 
P

popeye

Guest
The above statement is ludicrous as it matters greatly when the wedding occurs. If it occurs before the Tribulation then the GM in heaven and the Saints under the Alter cannot be apart of the Bride. ALL BELIEVERS are part of the BRIDE. Thus the BRIDE cannot be determined until ALL BELIEVERS have come in.
shot yourself in the foot again.

All believers are at the wedding,including the 144 k and the 2 witnesses.
 
P

popeye

Guest
It's all there in hosea. The Israelites of the northern kingdom would forget who they were. Not until God brings them back will they remember who they are. This will happen when Christ comes back and only at the will of God. I don't know where they are but looking for them will help us keep an eye on prophecy. They aren't the jews because Christ told his disciples to not preach the gospel to the gentiles but to go to the Israelites who were scattered. They were scattered by Assyria and never returned.
Where are you getting this from?
 
P

popeye

Guest
the GM in heaven and the Saints under the Alter cannot be apart of the Bride.

Those under the altar are part of the GM.

The martyrs are now out from under the altar. "............until your number is fulfilled"

The number was fulfilled in the GM,so now they are no longer under the altar.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
shot yourself in the foot again.

All believers are at the wedding,including the 144 k and the 2 witnesses.
I stated the truth, all believers are the Bride, period end of story!! That is yet another reason your pre-trib doctrine fails. Your pre-Trib doctrine creates classes of Christians, those worthy to be raptured and thus part of the Bride and those who fell short of the mark and are not part of the Bride. Such thinking fails as John instructs us that the Bride is the New Jerusalem and ALL BELIEVERS will reside in the New Jerusalem one day.
 
F

flob

Guest
It's Christians, or Christ, who "create classes (to use your word) of Christians," both in the call to believers to "overcome" in Revelation 2--3;
as well as in the fact of a firstfruit (minority,and first) rapture, to the throne, Rv 14:1-5; cf Rv 12:5-6; Lk 21:36; Rv 3:10; Lk 17:33-36; compared with the harvest (majority, and last) rapture, to the cloud, Rv 14:14-16; cf Rv 12:6; Lk 17:33-36; 21:36; Rv 3:10.
As well as at the judgment seat of Christ for His children (only), 2 Cor 5:10; Mt 24:45--25:30; 1 Cor 3:10-17; etc.
Of course none of us should act like we think we're in a "class above." That is completely Satanic, high-minded, and ridiculous. Or like the clergy-laity system which permeates Christendom and Christianity. Lol........it's one way to precisely Not overcome,
Lk 14:7-11.

You're accurate though that eventually (at the end of the Millenium, 1000 years) all those children born of God will equally,
with no class nor hierarchy, comprise the New Jersualem, the consummation of the Body of Christ, and the wife of the Lamb,
Rv 21:2, 9.